Tanking

[Jag68Sid87]

Vera-Tucker is better than Becton, and when healthy is a HUGE asset to this team. But someone smarter than I am once said: "the best ability is availability".

 

Not only do we need Vera-Tucker to return to full health, but we also need to sign a guard who is starter level JUST IN CASE. Mind you, this team could have six quality reserves at every position and still find a way to be thin somewhere. It is just how we roll.

IF Rodgers is coming back next year, and there is every reason to believe he is, then we need to protect him at all cost. Draft an O-lineman in the first round, and then add another one or two as depth later in the draft. Sign a starting O-lineman in free agency and then sign another as insurance for Vera-Tucker. Invest up front. We do such a great job of that on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, yet ignore the O-line. Enough already. Douglas even looks like an O-lineman, how is he not more adept at finding O-linemen?

Personally, I don't think this team even knows how to tank. And we certainly are not in that mode right now. If we actually do run it back with nearly everybody returning, I suppose I can get behind it. Even though, Douglas, Saleh and Hackett SHOULD be fired based on team performance vis-a-vis expectations and also based on the team's overall talent. Yeah, we have holes and that is on Douglas. Yeah, the defense has not dominated (although they do look great early in games, but the gas tank goes empty most of the time because of all the 3-and-outs on offense). That is on Saleh. The O-line stinks and the offense is a big black hole. They all share the blame there.

So, protect Rodgers at all cost. That means invest heavily in the O-line. Find a second quality WR. Get new turf at Metlife! And for the love of all things green, find a capable, reliable BACKUP quarterback. Move the bleep on from No. 2. Take a sixth-round pick for him and start fresh with a new heir apparent. Preferably someone who can, you know, actually play a little.

 

[jetfuel34]

I know we as Jet fans get our hearts ripped out ever year. The thing to remember is this team is not all that bad off right now. First off they beat the eagles. They are the only team that can say that. The OL has been a mess. This team has not started the same OL all season. It is the only NFL team to do that. No QB or RB could work behind this line. Rodgers is coming back and I do think it will be this year. They already started his 21 day window so he will be back soon. There are doctors that are saying if he ripped it low than it is very possible for him to be back no problem. Now that Rodgers will not make the 65% starts the Jets keep their 1st round pick and GB gets the second round pick. That means the Jets owe GB nothing after this. Rodgers has been saying he wants to play so bad and feels he can play a few more years. I do think Saleh gets let go and so does Hackett. I'm sure this conversation has taken place already. The only reason for this is that Frank Reich (maybe Jim Harbaugh?) will take over as the HC of the Jets. I think Rodgers wants a HC that knows what he is doing and not some young guy. JD is saved for now and see what he can do with Rodgers. The Jets will draft the best OT (Alt) with the 4th or 5th overall pick as the top 3 picks are QB's. JD has done a great job with the cap so you can sign a starting OL and WR too. I think D. Adams comes here from the Raiders and he will not cost that much in draft picks. I pretty sure he has a no trade clause for has a say in where he goes. I think a 2025 second round pick get him here or a 4th this year and a third next year. No way the Raiders are getting a first round pick for a guy on the wrong side of 30. The OL would look something like this. 

Alt (rookie) AVT Tippmann (Free agent) Mitchell/Warner

The D will be close to the same but they will sign an older type big guy to help stop the run. The draft will have 3 OL guys getting picked (including Alt) along with a WR, LB, and a QB. I think the QB comes in the 3rd round with a guy like Beck from Georgia. 

[xrade]

23 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

Our OL play is directly correlated to the number of injuries our OL experience

No necessarily.  Tomlinson just flat our sucks.  McG is not very good.  Mitchell, Brown also es no bueno.  Becton is average at best.  It is not just about injuries, if the starters going into the season were not hurt, would the OL really be much better?  But again, my original post was about trading away draft picks for a WR when one can be had in FA.  Also, hoping the OL plays well in 2024 without doing much is exactly what we have been doing without success.

[xrade]

20 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

So, protect Rodgers at all cost. That means invest heavily in the O-line. Find a second quality WR. Get new turf at Metlife! And for the love of all things green, find a capable, reliable BACKUP quarterback. Move the bleep on from No. 2. Take a sixth-round pick for him and start fresh with a new heir apparent. Preferably someone who can, you know, actually play a little.

I think this sums it up very well and I challenge anyone to disagree (friendly of course).  The thing is that JD has been investing in the OL.  He drafts one or two every year and gets at least one as a FA.  Of the two OL acquisition routes, his FA picks have almost all been bad.  JD seriously needs to take a hard look at his pro scouting department.

[Jag68Sid87]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:14 PM, jetfuel34 said:

I know we as Jet fans get our hearts ripped out ever year. The thing to remember is this team is not all that bad off right now. First off they beat the eagles. They are the only team that can say that. The OL has been a mess. This team has not started the same OL all season. It is the only NFL team to do that. No QB or RB could work behind this line. Rodgers is coming back and I do think it will be this year. They already started his 21 day window so he will be back soon. There are doctors that are saying if he ripped it low than it is very possible for him to be back no problem. Now that Rodgers will not make the 65% starts the Jets keep their 1st round pick and GB gets the second round pick. That means the Jets owe GB nothing after this. Rodgers has been saying he wants to play so bad and feels he can play a few more years. I do think Saleh gets let go and so does Hackett. I'm sure this conversation has taken place already. The only reason for this is that Frank Reich (maybe Jim Harbaugh?) will take over as the HC of the Jets. I think Rodgers wants a HC that knows what he is doing and not some young guy. JD is saved for now and see what he can do with Rodgers. The Jets will draft the best OT (Alt) with the 4th or 5th overall pick as the top 3 picks are QB's. JD has done a great job with the cap so you can sign a starting OL and WR too. I think D. Adams comes here from the Raiders and he will not cost that much in draft picks. I pretty sure he has a no trade clause for has a say in where he goes. I think a 2025 second round pick get him here or a 4th this year and a third next year. No way the Raiders are getting a first round pick for a guy on the wrong side of 30. The OL would look something like this. 

Alt (rookie) AVT Tippmann (Free agent) Mitchell/Warner

The D will be close to the same but they will sign an older type big guy to help stop the run. The draft will have 3 OL guys getting picked (including Alt) along with a WR, LB, and a QB. I think the QB comes in the 3rd round with a guy like Beck from Georgia. 

Good post. I disagree with most of it, but that is perfectly OK!  

Reich is a horrible choice. He is still living off his work in Philly. His stints as HC have been mediocre to awful. He does not deserve another crack at it. It is interesting that you are firing Saleh and Hackett, but keeping the man most responsible for our misery. Zach Wilson and the O-line are easily the two biggest weaknesses on this team. And Douglas is responsible for both. Sorry, but he HAS to go.

I agree that we are in good shape with regards to Green Bay and the draft. It would be great if Rodgers played two more seasons for us beyond this debacle of a campaign. If he plays two more seasons, I think we easily win the trade (even though the Jets have a funny way of turning wine into kerosene).

I've thought of Jim Harbaugh. I don't think it fits. You said Rodgers wants a HC that knows what he is doing. Maybe. But we cannot have a giant ego coaching this team, because we already have that under center. Even Belichick and Brady needed a split, eventually. Two giant egos are hard to coexist. I think Eric Bieniemy is a much better option for us. I am sure Rodgers respects the KC system, and it is all part of the West Coast offense umbrella. So I don't think it would take Rodgers very long to master it. Now, it is possible that Bieniemy's ego is too big, too. I don't know for sure. The dude running Philly's offense is another candidate. I like that guy (Johnson?). As for a new GM, I am not very familiar with the current top candidates, but obviously someone who works well with the new HC is paramount. They would then make the call on a new HC (with Rodgers' input for sure).

I absolutely agree that we need to draft an offensive lineman with the first pick. However, when this season ends, we might be in a position to trade down. We could finish in a position that appeals to the QB-needy teams. Yes, WE are also a QB-needy team. But drafting a QB in the first round, when you have Rodgers and a MASSIVE need up front, would not be smart. Plus, after Darnold and Wilson, we really need to go about 5-10 years before going QB in Round 1 again. It's enough already.

I don't think Adams will be easy to obtain. He would be ideal, but at what cost? Since the Raiders have turned a corner under Pierce, Adams may be more interested in staying. The Raiders may be interested in keeping him. O'Connell looks like he has some chemistry with Adams, something that Jimmy G does not have. I think we need to address the WR opposite Wilson via free agency or the draft. Depending on what we acquire in free agency (how many O-linemen, plus a DT, a LB etc.), we may need to draft Wilson's sidekick. We should also give Ruckert, Gipson and Brownlee a long look in training camp to see what we have in them. Uzomah, Lazard, Cobb should be done. Cook will definitely want to leave, too. We will need a third RB and a developmental QB, too.

I disagree that Douglas has done a great job with the cap. Numbers wise, sure? But where he has allocated the money? We have an expensive Carl Lawson scratched most games (I never understood the decision to draft McDonald, but I am happy we did. He looks good). Lawson could have been released with very little dead cap money, but we chose to bring him back. We clearly don't need him now. That money could have gone somewhere else. Heck, if we used Lawson's money to pay the dead cap hit from trading away Zach Wilson, even that would have been worth it!

I like your O-line projection. The thing is, Tomlinson is no good but he is never hurt. For this team, that is HUGE. We can and should replace him, but we should also remember that Vera-Tucker is as reliable as a friend on an airport run. In other words, not very reliable! So, I might even prefer to keep Tomlinson around and draft his replacement...in case Vera-Tucker continues to be unavailable. We kinda did that this year with McGovern and Tippmann and it worked. Do the same thing with LG? Maybe. Otherwise, yeah. We need a stud LT for Rodgers' blind side and we need Tippmann, Vera-Tucker and Warren to stay healthy and productive. Mitchell can be a backup.

So, basically you are a little more optimistic than most of us. And hopefully that rubs off on me and others. In the meantime, I will continue to fear the worst for this team. That usually is not too far from the truth.

 

 

[Big T]

Just want to throw this out there, Tippmann has shown he can play the line, grab an OT in round one, in round 3 one of the top Centers, like the guy from Georgia Van Pran. Move Tippmann over to Guard, move AVT to OT. 

Your starters will be your number 1 draft choice, AVT, Tippmann and Van Pran along with Tomlinson. Then we have our cast of underperforming OL on the bench. 

Just a thought, WR could be had in FA, another option would to be trading one of our DE's for a high 2nd or possible 1st. and draft a blue chip WR as well.

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Big T said:

move AVT to OT. 

Twice he went down with a season ending injury play OT. I am not saying it would not have happened if he was at OG, but maybe just keep him at OG. A FRP at LT and Warren at RT would be OK. If AVT stays at RG that will help Warren. Get the top FA OG to start at LG.

[jetsfan4life51]

4 hours ago, Big T said:

Just want to throw this out there, Tippmann has shown he can play the line, grab an OT in round one, in round 3 one of the top Centers, like the guy from Georgia Van Pran. Move Tippmann over to Guard, move AVT to OT. 

Your starters will be your number 1 draft choice, AVT, Tippmann and Van Pran along with Tomlinson. Then we have our cast of underperforming OL on the bench. 

Just a thought, WR could be had in FA, another option would to be trading one of our DE's for a high 2nd or possible 1st. and draft a blue chip WR as well.

I like Van Pran and would gladly go AVT LG Tippmann RG if that’s what happens. But not moving AVT to OT. 

 

How have Carter Warren and Xavier Newman graded out? Can Newman be serviceable at RG? And do we have Schweitzer for another year?

[jetfan8178]

22 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

I like Van Pran and would gladly go AVT LG Tippmann RG if that’s what happens. But not moving AVT to OT. 

 

How have Carter Warren and Xavier Newman graded out? Can Newman be serviceable at RG? And do we have Schweitzer for another year?

They are apparently very high on carter warren and cut newman.

Im curious to see if warren keeps playing to see if hes the guy. (I liked him since they drafted him) 

Bets RG guy out there in Fa is Mike Onwenu. He would be a great offseason signing if available. Dude is a beast. 

edit: Warren will now start at RT today

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by jetfan8178

[Mdpackfan22]

What's the likelihood Saleh is fired? Packers fans everywhere gonna be pounding the table to hire him at DC if he's available

[NJerseypaint]

55 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

What's the likelihood Saleh is fired? Packers fans everywhere gonna be pounding the table to hire him at DC if he's available

50%. Woody is a fickle owner, but there's reason to believe Saleh and JD get a mulligan after Rodgers went down game one.

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, NJerseypaint said:

50%. Woody is a fickle owner, but there's reason to believe Saleh and JD get a mulligan after Rodgers went down game one.

Woody really isn’t that fickle. He gives everyone plenty of time aside from Adam Gase. He just makes bad hires, and doesn’t learn from his mistakes. I’m sure the next HC will be a first timer from the defensive side of the ball. Douglas supposedly picked Saleh though I thought.

Edited December 4, 2023 by GangGreen420

[NJerseypaint]

20 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

Woody really isn’t that fickle. He gives everyone plenty of time aside from Adam Gase. He just makes bad hires, and doesn’t learn from his mistakes. I’m sure the next HC will be a first timer from the defensive side of the ball. Douglas supposedly picked Saleh though I thought.

His tendency to listen to fans/media is what makes him fickle. The dude fires his staff as soon as the fanbase sours on them, sometimes for good (Gase, Idzik, etc) and sometimes not so much (Rex, Tanny). I'm hoping he sticks to his guns this time and lets Rob and Joe get their season with Rodgers and ignore the calls to hit reset. 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

His tendency to listen to fans/media is what makes him fickle. The dude fires his staff as soon as the fanbase sours on them, sometimes for good (Gase, Idzik, etc) and sometimes not so much (Rex, Tanny). I'm hoping he sticks to his guns this time and lets Rob and Joe get their season with Rodgers and ignore the calls to hit reset. 

I tend to agree but we absolutely need Saleh to find an OC and hold the OC accountable. Saleh is not a bad HC, but he needs to stop being so damn nice.  Fire Hackett 

[jetfuel34]

20 hours ago, xrade said:

I tend to agree but we absolutely need Saleh to find an OC and hold the OC accountable. Saleh is not a bad HC, but he needs to stop being so damn nice.  Fire Hackett 

Ummm yes he is. The guy does not know anything about the O side of the ball. That means he knows 50% of the game. That is bad right there. He has no clue what to do like start Wilson sit Wilson start Wilson sit Wilson. He is terrible at making a decison from who should start and who should sit. Saleh OL is just horrible. Oh Saleh also has the worse O IN NFL HISTORY!!! There is zero reason to bring this guy back. I don't care how good the D is, there is a ton of good HC that can run a top 5 D but can't run the O.