2023 Week #14 TNF Steelers 7-5 Host Patriots 2-10

[Steeler Hitman]

9 hours ago, 3rivers said:

ah, they need much more  than that. 

No doubt.

Quote

Remember, the media will hype and side with Tomlin.  

I have slept on the game and am trying to OBJECTIVELY comment without regard to opinions on the coach. 

I do get it. I really do. Most are ready to move on from Tomlin. Truthfully, I will continue to look at this angle and may come to that conclusion as well. However,  my comment wasn't about the media supporting Tomlin. But rather something that I thought and have said in many posts over the past several years. There is a HOF TE broadcaster who stated the same thing. This team needs offensive infusion and a true offensive alpha male.

When everyone was criticizing Najee, I said, he is a needed commodity on this offense. It is not just about who is the better RB,  but he is one of the only young natural leaders on that offense outside of Pickett.  The team probably made a huge mistake not naming him a captain again. As such, this offense has no one to light a fire under these guys.

Whether the team moves from Mike Tomlin or not those 53 players and however many PS players need to look in the mirror as well. They came out flat and uninspired.  There is pride in being a Steeler or there should be. These guys look uninspired. The coach can't always be expected to be rah rah.  Sometimes you have to put on your big boy helmet and pads and go out and play.     

Offence starts with the OL. The C  has bad snaps and isn't good, most out there know this . That's your leader and it stats there. 

3Rivers, this is something that I also pounded the table for going back to before Pouncey even considered retiring. I kept saying that Ben's getting older, the OL is getting older, and they need to find and develop the next franchise OL. Each draft I and several others outlined this need. I am simply a fan of this team who has watched and (understood) Steelers football games since 1970.

Many in the fan base are over Mike Tomlin and I respect and understand why. However, I don't think it is necessary to pile every inadequacy, mistake, or shortcoming the players or coaches make on the HC. 

We are quickly turning into the Eagles like with Andy Reid in regards to Tomlin. Maybe it is time to move on as the Eagles did. I will honestly continue to assess that. However, because many have made up their mind to move on from Tomlin, every mistake by a player, assistant or bad play can't come back to the HC to support the narrative of firing him. Mason Cole regressed and they need to get a couple Centers on the team next year (a veteran and draft your future franchise C). 

QB has to be a leader, and najee's comments about mitch summed it up.  It also could say something about najee

I agree with both statements. Both Najee and Mitch were captains last year. Mitch is a back-up QB and the back-up is typically not the alpha in the room. As much as I am not a fan of Mitch's play, Mitch spoke up last year when Dionte started pouting. Najee is just a third year player, and he is also frustrated and down. It took Big Ben most of his career to break from some of his arrogance and immaturity. I love Ben, but there is some truth in my statement.  Ben was surrounded by veterans and leaders early in his career.

Then chuks is paid more than the other OL and gets a few snaps a game. If he isn't getting a penalty, HE IS LETTING THE DEFENDER THROUGH!  DOESN'T TOMLIN REALIZE THE TEAM WILL SEE THIS ON FILM DAY - YET TOMLIN IS STILL PLAYING CHUKS! WTF IS WRONG WITH TOMLIN 

3Rivers you are simply piling Tomlin hate whenever you can. 😁Again, not necessary. He is one person in the organization. He is a HC, not a dictator. Tomlin is not calling the plays and formations. That is the OC.  I agree Mike Tomlin is a part of why the team is where it is. He also shields his players and coaches. Did you see the look on his face on the fourth quarter play? Then after the game he supported the call and took responsibility. 
 

I am not going to or trying to defend every Tomlin action. He certainly makes mistakes and does enough on his own, but the narrative of Tomlin pointing at everything, just isn't objective or realistic. That doesn't mean that you are not right and it is time to move on from Tomlin. He is a part of the problem and may actually be one of the biggest parts. I will certainly objectively continue to look at that as well.

They need a HC that will have a legit offence. these clowns need to go. That 2nd last series was as bad as possible. 

No doubt, but waiting as long as you did to fire Canada and the other offensive issues and injuries, don't lend to any real answers this season. We got teased in the preseason and again when the change took place and the offense put up 400 yards and controlled the ball in the Bengals game.

I can't see myself watching this team if tomlin is here, just can't.  Even if they have a great draft, he will waste it, just like GP and Warren being wasted here. 

I hope they lose out and Trade tomlin to the bears. Hey, the bears will realize we lost because of mitch anyways, so that works out  nicely.

Ultimately that may end up being the best for everyone. I am not going to make that conclusion after two bad and emotional losses. This may well be a situation like Andy Reid in Philly as I mentioned above.  He may not be the best coach for the Steelers moving forward. I am certainly delving deeper into that thought as well.

If AR2 keeps tomlin, people that are stupid enough to pay to watch this in the stadium in the elements better start fire tomlin chants next year. This year it's TRADE tomlin chants, they better happen near seasons end

He has a year left on his contract. He will probably be here for at least one more year. I am not really certain that they (Steelers Front Office) extend his contract this off season or after that. Again, it may be time to move on. A lot is going to depend on how things play out between now and then. 

Many fans have moved on, but the question will be has the team (players)? 

[3rivers]

24 minutes ago, warfelg said:

My major thing is we’re more than just a coaching change away. Look at comments the last few weeks about how some guys aren’t in their playbook, some thinking splash plays just happen, players putting themselves above team. 

Those aren’t things coaches can change. You can’t suddenly make guys turn around those attitudes. Coaching ain’t Ted Lasso out there. Players that don’t study, likely won’t even if you spend all the time in the world with them as coaches. 

This is why I believe that we’re closer to the talent of a .500 team than a playoff. If WRs aren’t going to study the playbook enough to know options, they are going to keep making those mistakes no matter how talented they are. If ILBs are going to keep biting on the same PAs/Levels concepts, it’s going to keep happening no matter what. 

Unless the player cares enough to want to change, no level of coaching will change them. 

but better coaching with better play calling and use of talent will in turn yield better results and thats a spark.  Not just scoring more, but the overall effect of spark and momentum from there.   WR's , might not have options with this OC playbook, seems like  futility at this stage.  GP is being wasted, where was Muth last night?

Lets see what our HOF coach Mr.529 does from here then.  Lets take note of what he decides on from here on week to week regarding changes.

In the pats game, he played zones and let Zappe have a career gam e in the first half alone .  Nice coaching.  GP and Muth were unheard of last night while being open.  GP is being wasted here. Any decent coach would find a way to get GP involved, make it happen. 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by 3rivers

[AFF]

29 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Honest question:

If the coaching staff were to be cleaned house of - do yup honestly feel the new HC, Khan, and Weidl would be given enough free reign to hire as big of a staff, add departments, and pay them appropriately? What leads you to believe this?

We get it…you have to defend your avatar at all costs.

And before you think I’m saying Tomlin is the only problem…no, clearly he’s not the only issue.

However when you can multiple posters on this site Such as @43M@Dcash4@jebrick@bigben07MVP and myself bring up valid concerns about Tomlin, and some of them being more of the grey area regarding him(unlike me)you always push everything to every other facet of the team.

If the thought of possibly being worse scares you(not necessarily you) that much that you’re too afraid to make changes  the you shouldn’t be a HC or an owner or leader boss etc etc.

I know you’re gonna reply back and still not get it…it is what it is…when they bring Tomlin back again and have yet another 8-9 or 9-8 season, another season of Pickett starting and another wasted year of Watts prime, a probable retread OC with Steeler ties a 7th year with no playoff wins, what will the excuses be then?

Doing the same thing over and over again will only get the same result…they’re treading water at best with him right now.

Being afraid to get worse shouldn’t override you’re ability to try to do better.

I won’t be replying back…you’re a very smart poster, smarter than most but it’s clear as day you’re not looking at this subject without bias….try taking a step back and looking at it. 

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, AFF said:

We get it…you have to defend your avatar at all costs.

And before you think I’m saying Tomlin is the only problem…no, clearly he’s not the only issue.

However when you can multiple posters on this site Such as @43M@Dcash4@jebrick@bigben07MVP and myself bring up valid concerns about Tomlin, and some of them being more of the grey area regarding him(unlike me)you always push everything to every other facet of the team.

If the thought of possibly being worse scares you(not necessarily you) that much that you’re too afraid to make changes  the you shouldn’t be a HC or an owner or leader boss etc etc.

I know you’re gonna reply back and still not get it…it is what it is…when they bring Tomlin back again and have yet another 8-9 or 9-8 season, another season of Pickett starting and another wasted year of Watts prime, a probable retread OC with Steeler ties a 7th year with no playoff wins, what will the excuses be then?

Doing the same thing over and over again will only get the same result…they’re treading water at best with him right now.

Being afraid to get worse shouldn’t override you’re ability to try to do better.

I won’t be replying back…you’re a very smart poster, smarter than most but it’s clear as day you’re not looking at this subject without bias….try taking a step back and looking at it. 

Jesus dude I’m asking a question. 

Do you have faith what you think needs to happen actually will?

Edited December 8, 2023 by warfelg

[Dcash4]

28 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I just frankly don’t care about JAGs complaints a ton. I’d need to listen to more stuff but Sternberger he complained about stuff in GB too. Sometimes starter JAGs just try to blame everything else for not being better. 

I don't understanding their opinion being invalid because they are a meh talent. This is part of the reason I don't engage often in the talent conversation. The majority of the NFL is JAG or worse. We shouldn't listen to anyone then. 

33 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I mean - statistically this is a very good defense. Hell last week you even said it yourself, only so much you can do at ILB6. I think when you are talking about taking player like that it’s more a matter of does this guy fit what you need. 

Leal is my perfect example right now. Is he a bad player? No. Is he a good player? No. Why do we struggle to elevate him? He’s a base 4-3 end that doesn’t have a position in our defense. On the flip side is he good enough to write entire defensive plays around to change schematically here and there what you do? I don’t believe so. 

I'm just getting the vibe that you are fully in on that you just want players to succeed on their own. No one's asking you to take a depth player and game plan for them. But do you honestly think we put TJ or Minkah in the best spots to not just win, but thrive? I do not. I watch these other teams playing a more modern style and weaponizing Garrett or Parsons. They wreck havoc and make it very hard to gameplan for consistently. 

That's where I think our defense is good, but missing great. We line TJ up wider than the widest and rush him off the edge. Does he win. He sure does, but we just allow him down after down to go through a 2, sometimes 3 man gauntlet to get there. Good coordinators counter him because they know that's it. Stefanski for years has taken how we use Minkah and scored in the redzone because of it. 

TJ, Minkah, Cam, Highsmith, even JPJ -- those guys can line up and just win. But we ask them to just win 100% of the time. There's a balance of scheme and talent that isn't being realized that IMO could bring up a much tougher, more dominate unit. 

56 minutes ago, warfelg said:

My major thing is we’re more than just a coaching change away. Look at comments the last few weeks about how some guys aren’t in their playbook, some thinking splash plays just happen, players putting themselves above team. 

Those aren’t things coaches can change. You can’t suddenly make guys turn around those attitudes. Coaching ain’t Ted Lasso out there. Players that don’t study, likely won’t even if you spend all the time in the world with them as coaches. 

This is why I believe that we’re closer to the talent of a .500 team than a playoff. If WRs aren’t going to study the playbook enough to know options, they are going to keep making those mistakes no matter how talented they are. If ILBs are going to keep biting on the same PAs/Levels concepts, it’s going to keep happening no matter what. 

Unless the player cares enough to want to change, no level of coaching will change them. 

You read this and think players. I read this and think "culture".

One or two players -- yes, absolutely. Player issue. An large amount of the team? What you allow is allowed. This culture needs a shake up. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

I don't understanding their opinion being invalid because they are a meh talent. This is part of the reason I don't engage often in the talent conversation. The majority of the NFL is JAG or worse. We shouldn't listen to anyone then. 

It’s not invalid. Some guys rub me the wrong way with it. Like take Schoberts comments. He seemed to insinuate coaches don’t practice them more - well that’s in the CBA. I’m sure all coaches across the league as veterans to lead the lockerroom. 

4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I'm just getting the vibe that you are fully in on that you just want players to succeed on their own. No one's asking you to take a depth player and game plan for them. But do you honestly think we put TJ or Minkah in the best spots to not just win, but thrive? I do not. I watch these other teams playing a more modern style and weaponizing Garrett or Parsons. They wreck havoc and make it very hard to gameplan for consistently. 

Not fully. But to some degree I don’t feel like I should need to constantly be scheming to free guys up. 

I think we started to with TJ early this year when Minkah/ILBs were healthy. He started rushing from the inside and stunting more. 

We tried moving Minkah this year - and everyone hated it. The question was “why isn’t he in single high, that’s what he’s good at”. 

Personally I would like to see more of that elsewhere. More interior stunts, more show and go from the LBs, less telegraphing of blitzes by having someone rush up last second. 

I mean just take TJ for a second. There’s guys moving around more still not producing as much as TJ. And as much as I love TJ, it’s time for him to have a move off the rip through. Half the reason he’s getting held is everyone knows that’s his go to. 

8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

That's where I think our defense is good, but missing great. We line TJ up wider than the widest and rush him off the edge. Does he win. He sure does, but we just allow him down after down to go through a 2, sometimes 3 man gauntlet to get there. Good coordinators counter him because they know that's it. Stefanski for years has taken how we use Minkah and scored in the redzone because of it. 

I guess I think differently in that the scheme should be less about freeing up good players and more for covering for others. I’ve said it a bunch of times but one thing I love about BB is he puts CB1 on WR2 to take them away, and puts CB2 on WR1 with inside help and over the top double. I want stuff like that. 

10 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

TJ, Minkah, Cam, Highsmith, even JPJ -- those guys can line up and just win. But we ask them to just win 100% of the time. There's a balance of scheme and talent that isn't being realized that IMO could bring up a much tougher, more dominate unit. 

This were where I disagree a bit. That’s what you should ask of them. Problem is we’re asking Wallace, Robert’s, Walker, Highsmith, Ogunjobi, whoever the hell is playing CB3 to do the same…and they just aren’t good enough for that. 

11 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

You read this and think players. I read this and think "culture".

One or two players -- yes, absolutely. Player issue. A large amount of the team? What you allow is allowed. This culture needs a shake up. 

Fair enough. I wouldn’t argue on this. And it could be culture but it’s partially the players you are bringing in. Clearly you can’t trust them to do what you would want in the system. Maybe some of them could be much better in a different structure. 

[Dcash4]

53 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Honest question:

If the coaching staff were to be cleaned house of - do yup honestly feel the new HC, Khan, and Weidl would be given enough free reign to hire as big of a staff, add departments, and pay them appropriately? What leads you to believe this?

To answer honestly, why wouldn't I? What leads you to believe the opposite?

I stay out of the Rooney stuff because its too conspiracy theory-ish for me. I buy into budget limits for sure. Rooney is the 31st ranked richest owner and his worth is tied to the team as a NFL family (the money in NFL teams is in the selling of NFL teams not the owning). There literally will be a limit to what he is just flat out able to do, especially with contracts and the escrow necessity. 

But we have also seen major changes when changes are....asked for. Tomlin the past two years asked for a new coach -- got him -- and asked to fire a coach -- they did. he is also quoted "I'd rather overwork' em than under work 'em" as well as "small is better for me".

Moving from Colbert to Khan and Weidl has brought a gigantic influx of new faces. We also heard that they were sending scouts to places that we did not before which would increase a travel budget. I can't find the article, but I remember Khan either going himself or sending scouts to one of the college senior games that they said they never did before. 

Mike Tomlin is the 5th highest paid coach in the sport. 2 guys above him were more recently signed/extended and 1 of the others is literally the winningest coach in the sport. So it's not that they don't pay well. Do I expect us to be paying Vic Fangio-like $4.5M/year to our coordinators? Absolutely not. But do I think they would open the budget for an additional $500K/1M for a better coordinator or an additional, impactful hire? I'm not too sure why I would think differently. 

[warfelg]

37 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

To answer honestly, why wouldn't I? What leads you to believe the opposite?

I stay out of the Rooney stuff because its too conspiracy theory-ish for me. I buy into budget limits for sure. Rooney is the 31st ranked richest owner and his worth is tied to the team as a NFL family (the money in NFL teams is in the selling of NFL teams not the owning). There literally will be a limit to what he is just flat out able to do, especially with contracts and the escrow necessity. 

But we have also seen major changes when changes are....asked for. Tomlin the past two years asked for a new coach -- got him -- and asked to fire a coach -- they did. he is also quoted "I'd rather overwork' em than under work 'em" as well as "small is better for me".

Moving from Colbert to Khan and Weidl has brought a gigantic influx of new faces. We also heard that they were sending scouts to places that we did not before which would increase a travel budget. I can't find the article, but I remember Khan either going himself or sending scouts to one of the college senior games that they said they never did before. 

Mike Tomlin is the 5th highest paid coach in the sport. 2 guys above him were more recently signed/extended and 1 of the others is literally the winningest coach in the sport. So it's not that they don't pay well. Do I expect us to be paying Vic Fangio-like $4.5M/year to our coordinators? Absolutely not. But do I think they would open the budget for an additional $500K/1M for a better coordinator or an additional, impactful hire? I'm not too sure why I would think differently. 

Thanks for answering reasonably and not attacking assuming I have an angle. 

I’m not sure what to think TBH. Some of that has absolutely happened and can not be argued. This franchise also had years of nepotism in the FO and has kept things small even before. 

I’m not as confident as you that all of that would happen TBH. But I wouldn’t be shocked if it happens like you hope. 
 

Follow up question: what would be your reaction if that doesn’t happen?

Edited December 8, 2023 by warfelg

[warfelg]

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1732978370781086027?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

On a bright side. 

[warfelg]

https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1733201451546263826?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

Frustrating to see it played right and still a mistake happens. 

[August4th]

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1732978370781086027?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

On a bright side. 

biggest reason I'm not super down on the state of this franchise. Khan/Andy keep drafting like this + big changes on the offensive coaching side. I think we'll be back to contenders quickly. I can see a vision where tomlin is apart of that too.

[warfelg]

Just now, August4th said:

biggest reason I'm not super down on the state of this franchise. Khan/Andy keep drafting like this + big changes on the offensive coaching side. I think we'll be back to contenders quickly. I can see a vision where tomlin is apart of that too.

If we can get 2/3 years of drafts like this, Khan/Weidl cutting the fat, and forcing hands by having certain players in house it can be done. 

[August4th]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

If we can get 2/3 years of drafts like this, Khan/Weidl cutting the fat, and forcing hands by having certain players in house it can be done. 

This offseason will be interesting. People say it's not the steeler way to do certain things in the offseason. That's all out the window now with this new FO. We've already seen changes last yr. I'm really fascinated in how they'll handle this QB/OC situation. I think everything is on the table. Cousins, Murray, big trade up for a rookie, sticking with kenny etc... not saying we should make those moves, but I won't dismiss the possibility

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I am simply a fan of this team who has watched and (understood) Steelers football games since 1970.

and this team is nothing like most teams from the past.   

 

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

3Rivers, this is something that I also pounded the table for going back to before Pouncey even considered retiring. I kept saying that Ben's getting older, the OL is getting older, and they need to find and develop the next franchise OL. Each draft I and several others outlined this need. I am simply a fan of this team who has watched and (understood) Steelers football games since 1970.

Many in the fan base are over Mike Tomlin and I respect and understand why. However, I don't think it is necessary to pile every inadequacy, mistake, or shortcoming the players or coaches make on the HC. 

We are quickly turning into the Eagles like with Andy Reid in regards to Tomlin. Maybe it is time to move on as the Eagles did. I will honestly continue to assess that. However, because many have made up their mind to move on from Tomlin, every mistake by a player, assistant or bad play can't come back to the HC to support the narrative of firing him. Mason Cole regressed and they need to get a couple Centers on the team next year (a veteran and draft your future franchise C). 

how did you think the C class was in 2023 draft?  Many said it was a deep class, perfect time to get a new C, but they didn't.  Now look at what we have but I do expect Khan and Weidl to get a C thats is actually capable.  

Maybe this is similar to Andy Reid but I doubt it entirely.  Parts , sure, but this has it's own stamp to it IMO. The playing down to bad teams , being out physical'd , and wasting talent  seem to be the trademark here.  Maybe tomlin has a problem with GP and punishes him  during the games, sure seems like it. 

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

He is a part of the problem and may actually be one of the biggest parts. I will certainly objectively continue to look at that as well.

he is not entirely the problem, I would like to make that clear. There are players and assistant coaches too, but the HC has some say in these players either being here, playing and the scheme they are playing in.  However, we could substitute say 10 coaches and their staffs here, are all better? I doubt it, but I would expect  some to be much better, a few might be similar then maybe a few a bit worse. 

The players don't get a free pass either, there are issues here.  It doesn't help when the DC plays soft zones so Zappe can have a career day in the first half alone - something seems odd there 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Both Najee and Mitch were captains last year.

this isn't a good look either now that I think  of how najee was about mitch starting when considering this.

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

It took Big Ben most of his career to break from some of his arrogance and immaturity. I love Ben, but there is some truth in my statement.  Ben was surrounded by veterans and leaders early in his career.

no doubt. I would think the idea of a team with a leader that isn't immature and arrogant would be ideal.  KP seemed to be some of that, but bad OC and injuries  muted this IMO.  The leader also has to produce to a certain level,  they can't expect he defence to bail them out all the  time and still be a leader. 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

3Rivers you are simply piling Tomlin hate whenever you can. 😁Again, not necessary. He is one person in the organization. He is a HC, not a dictator. Tomlin is not calling the plays and formations. That is the OC.

but how does he oversee and allow this and then tolerate the errors that chuks has made? 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Did you see the look on his face on the fourth quarter play? Then after the game he supported the call and took responsibility. 

no , and I doubt I will, That was absurd, and probably the worst option that I could think of other than najee running into cole.  Taking blame isn;t the better option either, how about making sure the play is good. If the defender breaks it up, then in the presser praise the defender. If he takes responsibility and thats what accepts, then another example  well you know - game on the line, wasted TO's  and thats the play etc.

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

No doubt, but waiting as long as you did to fire Canada and the other offensive issues and injuries, don't lend to any real answers this season.

but it will give the media excuse for the tomlin hype.

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Ultimately that may end up being the best for everyone. I am not going to make that conclusion after two bad and emotional losses. This may well be a situation like Andy Reid in Philly as I mentioned above.  He may not be the best coach for the Steelers moving forward. I am certainly delving deeper into that thought as well.

Like Andy, he can only take so much blame but there is enough  which is the problem. Some players are a problem, maybe he is too easy on the players.  The next coach could be worse overall  , yet if they keep tomlin it WILL be more of the same.  Even with the offensive dynamo they had way back, no legit playoff wins. 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

He has a year left on his contract. He will probably be here for at least one more year. I am not really certain that they (Steelers Front Office) extend his contract this off season or after that. Again, it may be time to move on. A lot is going to depend on how things play out between now and then. 

Many fans have moved on, but the question will be has the team (players)? 

thats why a trade is needed, part ways peacefully, and tomlin might see this as a good time to leave anyways if the chants start for him to be traded/fired. Fired makes no sense, he has a year left, trade him like you would  a player.  The Bears have draft capital, they are probably going to offer the most.

 

1 hour ago, AFF said:

e get it…you have to defend your avatar at all costs.

what a comment . I don't defend mine 

1 hour ago, AFF said:

f the thought of possibly being worse scares you(not necessarily you) that much that you’re too afraid to make changes  the you shouldn’t be a HC or an owner or leader boss etc etc.

this is it exactly. Change has chance to fail, but also succeed. AR2 needs to decide, then the fans can direct chants to him. Can't blame canada anymore. 

1 hour ago, AFF said:

I know you’re gonna reply back and still not get it…it is what it is…when they bring Tomlin back again and have yet another 8-9 or 9-8 season, another season of Pickett starting and another wasted year of Watts prime, a probable retread OC with Steeler ties a 7th year with no playoff wins, what will the excuses be then?

wasting players is bad,  too bad some of them don't request a trade and get out of this sinking ship. Watt, Minkah and GP should all move on, forget this

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

You read this and think players. I read this and think "culture".

even if it's a mix, I would give majority to culture.  I don't care for some of the players though, so that doesn't help especially if they are in leadership roles  (QB, C, "WR1"  for example) .  Thats 3 on offence alone

43 minutes ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1732978370781086027?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

On a bright side. 

trading has it's rewards (hint) 

Too bad JPj will be wasted here though.  Our 23' draft was the best in ages. If Khan and Weidl were to have additional picks and get more picks over the next 2 years, the 'players' part of the equation should be set.  Coaching though, thats  TBD

[3rivers]

22 minutes ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1733201451546263826?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

Frustrating to see it played right and still a mistake happens. 

that was a great pass and catch IMO. Too bad we never broke it up, but sometimes the other team makes great plays.  It would be better to have another JPj on the team to help with this