GDT: Titans (4-8) at Dolphins (9-3) - Monday Night Miracle?

[-Hope-]

1 hour ago, KingTitan said:

Nobody said he wasn't good.

But, c'mon.  Lets not do revisionist history. 
He never played a full season as a starter. He was a backup for a while, but once he got the starting job he missed due to injury. 

Whatever the reason, he couldn't keep his hamstring healthy here and when he was good, he wasn't full speed last year. 
I think it's very reasonable to let a player walk that can't stay healthy. 
If we cut Burks tomorrow, saying health reasons, everyone would understand. 
Let Jayon go due to some health concerns too. 
Gonna let Fulton walk with a big reason being his health. 

Long played better than those players when healthy, yes. But he was missing 4-6 games a season over the last 2 years. 
Azziz has missed 0 so far. 

Long was let go mainly because of health. It has proven work against us because he has stayed healthy.

I'd have to go back and look, but I feel like I remember majority of us and online ok with the move and understood. 

revisionist history? you're putting words in my mouth, *again,* like you so frequently do.

i'm not arguing literally anything that you've said here. long *was* let go mainly because of health. and now, guess what? he's healthy, as soon as he leaves the titans. just like AJ. imagine that.

[-Hope-]

1 hour ago, KingTitan said:

I think my point is saying outside of Radunz and now Skron where have the current staff really picked a promising OL? An 7th round pick able to start in the NFL is rare.  Having an UDFA able to starter is even more rare. I think the expectation is when you take a guy in the lower 4th and below, you just hope he can turn into a rotational guy, backup or special teamer. Anything more than that is house money.  Finding All-Pros or Pro Bowlers in the low rounds shouldn't the expectation.  Especially if 1st round guys can barely do that. 

NPF was good enough last year to go into this year with a level of comfort. This year has been a disaster for him. Suspension, switching sides, injury. I call it a total loss of a season. I don't think it overrates him but keeps it in perspective. 

I think Brewer is a success for what he is. You "stole" a player. Without drafting him. It is our fault for trying to make him a starter, but to find an UDFA that shows he can play in the league at a fairly below-to average level isn't a terrible thing. Not smart to make him your starter, but he has had more positive than negatives, even if the margin is smaller than you'd like. 

Tart, NWI, UDFAs. I think that is a total win.  Basically if you are able to get anything out of a UDFA, I think that is a win. You don't use draft picks, they are cheaper. 

But if the expectation is to be able to turn a low round pick into a starter majority of the time, I think we are setting ourself up for major disappointment. I don't think any scouting department is able to say they do that consistently. 

yet again....not what i said. it's deeply annoying to have to keep responding to things that i didn't say.

[renndawg37]

2 hours ago, -Hope- said:

good thing we let this guy walk. another brilliant roster decision

big reason our run defense has declined 

[KingTitan]

2 hours ago, -Hope- said:

revisionist history? you're putting words in my mouth, *again,* like you so frequently do.

i'm not arguing literally anything that you've said here. long *was* let go mainly because of health. and now, guess what? he's healthy, as soon as he leaves the titans. just like AJ. imagine that.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. lol good grief.

It's a statement. Didn't say you were. If you took it that way, sorry. But no. Just a statement Saying for us not to ignore his health here. 

Addressing the topic, what would YOU have  the Titans do with Long? Not knowing how he eventually does in Miami and his injury history.

Edited December 8, 2023 by KingTitan

[KingTitan]

2 hours ago, -Hope- said:

yet again....not what i said. it's deeply annoying to have to keep responding to things that i didn't say.

Good grief.  I'm not saying you said it! lol

It's a statement.  
While I'm responding to your statement in particular, I'm also talking to the forum. I personally use the quote as a jumping off point and addresses the information in the aforementioned quote.   

I would think unless I said, "You said..." then just take it as a statement.  I even said:  I think WE are setting ourself up for major disappointment.  I know I didn't say that is the expectation. I know you didn't say it. I know nobody said it. I'm making a statement that if WE as fans or followers of the team start to think that any draft pick should develop into a starter then we are setting ourself up for disappointment. And that some draft picks develop into backups, but the do develop.  Since the subject was about development, I made that statement. Not saying you said it. 

I thought I responded in the least confrontational way possible, but you are interpreting it as accusatory. But if my forum style is annoying, I  guess don't respond to me further? I say that in the calmest way I can. I'm not angered but it is what it is. 

[-Hope-]

2 hours ago, KingTitan said:

I'm not putting words in your mouth. lol good grief.

It's a statement. Didn't say you were. If you took it that way, sorry. But no. Just a statement Saying for us not to ignore his health here. 

Addressing the topic, what would YOU have  the Titans do with Long? Not knowing how he eventually does in Miami and his injury history.

my point is simple:

we have let talented players walk and failed to adequately replace them, repeatedly. some of this is on jon robinson, but david long is undoubtedly on vrabel, being that he practically booted him out the door in public. it's not about what i would have done. it's not about whether or not it was the right move at the time. it's not about any of this other stuff you're saying. the point is that the erosion of talent on this team is not just a GM issue, it's *also* a coaching issue, illustrated by the fact that one of the biggest difference makers on our defense is enjoying a career year and staying healthy for another team because our fearless leader didn't want him here. 

[-Hope-]

2 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Good grief.  I'm not saying you said it! lol

It's a statement.  
While I'm responding to your statement in particular, I'm also talking to the forum. I personally use the quote as a jumping off point and addresses the information in the aforementioned quote.   

I would think unless I said, "You said..." then just take it as a statement.  I even said:  I think WE are setting ourself up for major disappointment.  I know I didn't say that is the expectation. I know you didn't say it. I know nobody said it. I'm making a statement that if WE as fans or followers of the team start to think that any draft pick should develop into a starter then we are setting ourself up for disappointment. And that some draft picks develop into backups, but the do develop.  Since the subject was about development, I made that statement. Not saying you said it. 

I thought I responded in the least confrontational way possible, but you are interpreting it as accusatory. But if my forum style is annoying, I  guess don't respond to me further? I say that in the calmest way I can. I'm not angered but it is what it is. 

okay, but if i didn't say it, why even bring it up? how is it germane to this discussion if it's not something i said, it's not something you said, and it's not something anyone else said? i'm just not sure how i'm supposed to interpret that as anything but a straw man relative to what i was actually trying to communicate. which, for the record, is that this coaching staff's record of developing offensive linemen into competent starters is very concerning, and that if we're trying to use a guy like aaron brewer as solace, that still doesn't measure up to what plenty of other teams have done with similar late-round acquisitions. there's nothing about expecting every draft pick to hit or whatever that's remotely relevant to that.

[TitanLegend]

Speaking specifically of Aaron Brewer, he's an interesting case. Our fan base seems to really dislike him, because he, well, frankly sucks at pass blocking. But he's arguably one of the best run blocking centers in football and is one of the best centers in movement in the league. Brandon Thorn, one of the most respected minds of OL Twitter, really loves him. PFF has Brewer with a 70.7 overall grade, 14th among centers, but that's with a 80.3 run block grade(8th among centers) but 47.8 pass blocking grade(42nd among centers, out of 52 who meet PFF's minimum snap requirements).

Do you keep giving Brewer ttime to develop and hope he becomes an at least average pass blocker to pair with his run blocking and excellent play in space? Honestly not sure.

[KingTitan]

1 hour ago, -Hope- said:

okay, but if i didn't say it, why even bring it up? how is it germane to this discussion if it's not something i said, it's not something you said, and it's not something anyone else said? i'm just not sure how i'm supposed to interpret that as anything but a straw man relative to what i was actually trying to communicate. which, for the record, is that this coaching staff's record of developing offensive linemen into competent starters is very concerning, and that if we're trying to use a guy like aaron brewer as solace, that still doesn't measure up to what plenty of other teams have done with similar late-round acquisitions. there's nothing about expecting every draft pick to hit or whatever that's remotely relevant to that.

I bring it up to make a point. And the point is development in so many ways is fluid. 

The forum has been talking about how we failed to develop players. Continuing from earlier posts I pointed out that our offensive line development isn't as horrid as some may think simply because we really haven't had a chance to develop a real prospect other than Radunz, which I followed up by saying we as in fans can consider that a failing. 

However, when we talk about guys like Brewer, NPF and Duncan I can't say they have failed to develop. And if they do end up being swing or backup players, I don't know if I'd say that is a failure either. 

But I guess I can't leave any room for any interpretation when responding to one of your statements. Noted. Keep that in mind I thr future. 

Brewer is just an example used out of the small sample of guys. 

We've drafted 3 guys lately. Radunz. NPF and Duncan. I personally am not writing off Duncan or NPF yet. I know some already consider them failures off the few games they've played. 

Radunz is a failure. He is what he is by now. 

I don't want to sound like I'm taking up for the coaching development of talent but I don't think it's as bad as some may feel. Not saying you think it's bad or great. Not saying you feel anything. Lol. 

Just saying..

[KingTitan]

1 hour ago, -Hope- said:

my point is simple:

we have let talented players walk and failed to adequately replace them, repeatedly. some of this is on jon robinson, but david long is undoubtedly on vrabel, being that he practically booted him out the door in public. it's not about what i would have done. it's not about whether or not it was the right move at the time. it's not about any of this other stuff you're saying. the point is that the erosion of talent on this team is not just a GM issue, it's *also* a coaching issue, illustrated by the fact that one of the biggest difference makers on our defense is enjoying a career year and staying healthy for another team because our fearless leader didn't want him here. 

And I'm addressing Long specifically. 

I don't want to assume how you feel ,since you said it's not about whether it was a right move or not. 

Others online are critical of the move, in a right or wrong stance. 

I'm going to say that given all the evidence and situation I think they made the right move. Hindsight makes it look very questionable to wrong. But I would have done the same given where we were money wise. They wanted a guy they could count on. Availability is an ability. 

We obviously made some financial decisions this past offseason. Talent is gone either due to poor planning or paying the wrong players (Tannehill. Landry. Hooker. Henry).  Tannehill and Henry takes up a good chunk of our cap.  Team thought it was the right choice I guess but hindsight says we should have moved on from Tannehill at least. That could have helped keep talent around. 

[KingTitan]

15 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Speaking specifically of Aaron Brewer, he's an interesting case. Our fan base seems to really dislike him, because he, well, frankly sucks at pass blocking. But he's arguably one of the best run blocking centers in football and is one of the best centers in movement in the league. Brandon Thorn, one of the most respected minds of OL Twitter, really loves him. PFF has Brewer with a 70.7 overall grade, 14th among centers, but that's with a 80.3 run block grade(8th among centers) but 47.8 pass blocking grade(42nd among centers, out of 52 who meet PFF's minimum snap requirements).

Do you keep giving Brewer ttime to develop and hope he becomes an at least average pass blocker to pair with his run blocking and excellent play in space? Honestly not sure.

I think you have to try to upgrade that spot but also he could continue to be a cheaper option and surround him with better talent. 

He does some great things in the run game. And of course Vrabel loves that. But as a pass protector.  Yeesh. 

[TitanRedd]

3 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Speaking specifically of Aaron Brewer, he's an interesting case. Our fan base seems to really dislike him, because he, well, frankly sucks at pass blocking. But he's arguably one of the best run blocking centers in football and is one of the best centers in movement in the league. Brandon Thorn, one of the most respected minds of OL Twitter, really loves him. PFF has Brewer with a 70.7 overall grade, 14th among centers, but that's with a 80.3 run block grade(8th among centers) but 47.8 pass blocking grade(42nd among centers, out of 52 who meet PFF's minimum snap requirements).

Do you keep giving Brewer ttime to develop and hope he becomes an at least average pass blocker to pair with his run blocking and excellent play in space? Honestly not sure.

No because we knew he would be a good run blocker its a zone blocking scheme he can get to the 2nd level he’s quick an athletic. He can’t pass block to save his life & Im tired of every QB we draft taking a beating from McNair, to young, locker, mariota well VY was more on him but you get the point 😩

[-Hope-]

11 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Speaking specifically of Aaron Brewer, he's an interesting case. Our fan base seems to really dislike him, because he, well, frankly sucks at pass blocking. But he's arguably one of the best run blocking centers in football and is one of the best centers in movement in the league. Brandon Thorn, one of the most respected minds of OL Twitter, really loves him. PFF has Brewer with a 70.7 overall grade, 14th among centers, but that's with a 80.3 run block grade(8th among centers) but 47.8 pass blocking grade(42nd among centers, out of 52 who meet PFF's minimum snap requirements).

Do you keep giving Brewer ttime to develop and hope he becomes an at least average pass blocker to pair with his run blocking and excellent play in space? Honestly not sure.

prioritizing run blocking over pass blocking as heavily as we do is part of why we are completely incapable of having anything resembling a drop-back passing game, which is a component of why i feel that vrabel’s entire philosophy is just broken. we’ve consistently gone after guys who can’t pass protect. even when our OL was a dominant run-blocking unit they were always just average at pass pro. you look at some of the pockets jalen hurts gets and i don’t remember the last time i’ve seen anything like that in tennessee. every single QB that plays for us gets hurt and then we throw up our hands and wonder why.
 

also not for nothing but brewer has the snap accuracy of a sawed-off shotgun lol. usually good for at least one horrific snap per game and it’s just a toss-up whether the QB is able to save it or not.

Edited December 9, 2023 by -Hope-

[deeluxx3]

I like what Brewer brings, but do think he’s best as a OG/C depth. His athleticism is a great benefit, but his lack of size will always be the glaring issue on the other side of the coin 

it’ll be interesting to see how we approach the OL this offseason, especially now with Levis as the incumbent. Obviously Brewer is a problem in pass pro, but I think our biggest issues to fix are at the tackle positions and then working our way inside. If we had OTs that don’t constantly require help, I think that’ll help mask some potential pass pro shortcomings from our center because guys like Skoronski won’t be needing to play triple-duty

i do think our first round pick needs to be on OT or WR. Perhaps there’s a T out there to be had via trade, I’m anxious to see what that unit looks like in 2024.

i want us to keep working with Duncan and think we will, but the position group desperately needs an injection of legit and proven talent.

[VY-FTW]

7 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I like what Brewer brings, but do think he’s best as a OG/C depth. His athleticism is a great benefit, but his lack of size will always be the glaring issue on the other side of the coin 

it’ll be interesting to see how we approach the OL this offseason, especially now with Levis as the incumbent. Obviously Brewer is a problem in pass pro, but I think our biggest issues to fix are at the tackle positions and then working our way inside. If we had OTs that don’t constantly require help, I think that’ll help mask some potential pass pro shortcomings from our center because guys like Skoronski won’t be needing to play triple-duty

i do think our first round pick needs to be on OT or WR. Perhaps there’s a T out there to be had via trade, I’m anxious to see what that unit looks like in 2024.

i want us to keep working with Duncan and think we will, but the position group desperately needs an injection of legit and proven talent.

Yeee Duncan is trying at least he is a rookie so MAYBE the improvement will be huge. I doubt it but damn that would be nice. The Brewer thing is tough but I think if we shore up the T spot like you said the Gs wouldn't have to fly outside to cover up mistakes by Ts and use them to help inside. 

There has been at least 4 plays where I see Pete flying left to help Dunk then FLY inside to try and save Brew and teams are seeing this and next thing you know our best Oline doesnt have hands on anyone and is just standing there LMAO. But yes the group does need proven talent SOMEWHERE on the line. Really there WR and DB need help bad

 

Anywho. To speak on KT and the david long thing. FOR ME at least I was upset when we let him walk but tbf yes I CLEARLY remember MOST of you being just fine with the move cause of ?? You guessed it. INJURIES lul! I was upset cause he was my fav player on Defense and we had just shipped of my fav player on offense a year before that so it was just shocking to me that two young talents I thought we be on the team for years and years are both gone. Im shocked David hasnt gotten hurt yet. But man I was cool with it cause when he's out there he is a monster. 

 

ANYWAYS. Whats done is done. Mistake or not this is what we got so Im very interested in to see how we build around Will IF we build around Will. Not sure Mike is here next year but I think he will be. I do know one thing. The injuries over the last few years says something. Either TC or practice needs to be change and or the training staff needs reworking idk something is wrong with the way we get ready to play

Also a few more days and Will makes his MNF debut. Imma just laugh at phins offense balling on us. But Will. Im interested in that. I hope we block for the poor kid