vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 46 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: You can’t claim you use PFF as your basis to compare players. and also claim there wasn’t substantial growth overall. Being the 42nd overall tackle but then being the 6th from weeks 9-18 shows there’s substantial growth . Im having trouble also believing that anyone can be the 42nd overall tackle but then being top 10 for half the season, but im not talking about quality and interpretation of data for awhile. This seems pretty less up to interpretation and shows that Walker has been very good in the 2nd half. If you want a greater sample size, sure. I can understand that. But he most certainly has gotten better and is playing very good ball. Sure I can. Do you know for certain that he's been #6 for that timeframe??? I haven't done the math of PFF to check out what Zach is saying. And since I know Zach to jump to easy/lazy conclusions, I will not take his word as gospel. Because I've long been a fan of Walker, back to when he was a rookie playing in the last pre-season game. So I've checked him early and often on PFF. He's ALWASY been around where he is now. It makes little sense to me how someone can be so great for 8 week, or roughly half the season, yet not go up in the rankings. It makes no sense. So, I'll run it down now. PFF scores for Walker Total/ Rank that week 1: 60.7 / 50th on 7 snaps 2: 57.4 / 53rd 3: 73.2 / 10th 4: 63.4 / 33rd 5: 47.6 / 67th 7: 47.5 / 53rd 8: 53 / 73rd 9: 76.9 / 8th 10: 61 / 38th 11: 73.5 / 11th 12: 65.7 / 31st 13: 71.9 / 8th 14: 67.7 / 25th 15: 88.6 / 1st 16: 40.6 / 63rd 17: 59 / 66th 18: 75.8 / 13th First 8 games average.... 60 / 43.37 Last 9 games average .... 67 / 28 And here is how his year is scored on PFF right now.... 66.4 / 42. He's #51 if I ignore snap counts. Bakh is the best pass blocking scored if I ignore snap counts. So, I can do a custom search on their site. The claim is that Walker is the #6 rated tackle, weeks 9-18. #6 is Tyron Smith at 81.1. Zach Tom is #26 at 72.2. Walker is #34 at 69.6. Even if I sort by just pass block, he's no where near #6. He's 31st. If I remove snap counts under 200, that moves him up another 3-4 spots, but that is it. So, challenge accepted and Zach is disproven. Not shocking to me at all. But what was learned? Besides Zach not doing his own research, or me really screwing up how to read and sort on PFF.....Walker has improved over the last half of the season. But let's not pretend like he's in an elite category at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said: 5 time all pro while missing what , 2 years? Joe Thomas has 8 total All pros. Not saying he was better than Thomas, but he would’ve easily been in the HOF had he remained healthy. If he gets healthy now, he’ll have a good chance as he’ll basically be 33 when the season starts. When he plays, he’s still dominant. As for keeping him, that’s really hard to say without knowing the risk for re-injury. I know I’m a big Walker fan. He’s been incredible lately. Ain't even remotely true. Sewell, Williams, Havenstein, Raimann, Armstead, Smith, McGary, Onwenu, Moses, Smith, Jackson, Motor, Bolles, Jackson, Eleumunor, Johnson, Thomas, McGlinchey, Slater, Munford Jr, Decker, Darrisaw, Jones, Mekari, Jones, Tom, Leno, Cross, Ekwonu, Malata, Humphries, Tunsil. Those are the guys with high snap counts (over 200) that exceed Walker by the timeframe listed in this post. Wish I could screen shot what I'm looking at. But I ran a custom sort, tackles weeks 9-18. Then I sorted by offensive grade. Not pass block or run block, total offensive grade. In fact, I can't run a sort on that timeframe and find anything where he's even a top 10 tackle, let alone 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 11 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Sure I can. Do you know for certain that he's been #6 for that timeframe??? I haven't done the math of PFF to check out what Zach is saying. And since I know Zach to jump to easy/lazy conclusions, I will not take his word as gospel. Because I've long been a fan of Walker, back to when he was a rookie playing in the last pre-season game. So I've checked him early and often on PFF. He's ALWASY been around where he is now. It makes little sense to me how someone can be so great for 8 week, or roughly half the season, yet not go up in the rankings. It makes no sense. So, I'll run it down now. PFF scores for Walker Total/ Rank that week 1: 60.7 / 50th on 7 snaps 2: 57.4 / 53rd 3: 73.2 / 10th 4: 63.4 / 33rd 5: 47.6 / 67th 7: 47.5 / 53rd 8: 53 / 73rd 9: 76.9 / 8th 10: 61 / 38th 11: 73.5 / 11th 12: 65.7 / 31st 13: 71.9 / 8th 14: 67.7 / 25th 15: 88.6 / 1st 16: 40.6 / 63rd 17: 59 / 66th 18: 75.8 / 13th First 8 games average.... 60 / 43.37 Last 9 games average .... 67 / 28 And here is how his year is scored on PFF right now.... 66.4 / 42. He's #51 if I ignore snap counts. Bakh is the best pass blocking scored if I ignore snap counts. So, I can do a custom search on their site. The claim is that Walker is the #6 rated tackle, weeks 9-18. #6 is Tyron Smith at 81.1. Zach Tom is #26 at 72.2. Walker is #34 at 69.6. Even if I sort by just pass block, he's no where near #6. He's 31st. If I remove snap counts under 200, that moves him up another 3-4 spots, but that is it. So, challenge accepted and Zach is disproven. Not shocking to me at all. But what was learned? Besides Zach not doing his own research, or me really screwing up how to read and sort on PFF.....Walker has improved over the last half of the season. But let's not pretend like he's in an elite category at all. He very well can get it wrong. Theres also no chance that Walker was the 63rd and 66th best tackle in weeks 16 and 17. 1 sack combined between Car and Minny. 4.5 and 4.8 ypc vs them with 30 plus carries each. That suggests that the LT was probably very good . Theres real bad tackle play out there and Walker certainly isn’t bad Edited January 9 by Rainmaker90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: He very well can get it wrong. Theres also no chance that Walker was the 63rd and 66th best tackle in weeks 16 and 17. 1 sack combined between Car and Minny. 4.5 and 4.8 ypc vs them with 30 plus carries each. That suggests that the LT was probably very good . Theres real bad tackle play out there and Walker certainly isn’t bad Since the source is PFF and I posted all their stuff, yes, that is what their data says. And yes, there is bad OL and OT play out there. And Walker is not bad. He's playable. No doubt about it. he can be the 60-something ranked tackle one week and the best or top 10 a week later. He's young, it's expected to have ups and downs. If the guy gets another off-season under his belt along with some base/core power, hopefully that smooths out. But that tweet? I can't find any way to dissect the PFF data to get Walker anywhere near the top 10. Top 31? Yeah. If I slice it enough and eliminate lower snap counts than him, I can get around there. Which means that he very well could be in the top half of starting tackles in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, vegas492 said: Since the source is PFF and I posted all their stuff, yes, that is what their data says. And yes, there is bad OL and OT play out there. And Walker is not bad. He's playable. No doubt about it. he can be the 60-something ranked tackle one week and the best or top 10 a week later. He's young, it's expected to have ups and downs. If the guy gets another off-season under his belt along with some base/core power, hopefully that smooths out. But that tweet? I can't find any way to dissect the PFF data to get Walker anywhere near the top 10. Top 31? Yeah. If I slice it enough and eliminate lower snap counts than him, I can get around there. Which means that he very well could be in the top half of starting tackles in the league. I generally agree with a lot of your posts , but there’s no way Walker was one of the worst tackles those weeks. Does Anyone really believe there were 60 plus tackles better than Walker??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: He very well can get it wrong. Theres also no chance that Walker was the 63rd and 66th best tackle in weeks 16 and 17. 1 sack combined between Car and Minny. 4.5 and 4.8 ypc vs them with 30 plus carries each. That suggests that the LT was probably very good . Theres real bad tackle play out there and Walker certainly isn’t bad Just cuz it's you, I looked it up again. Week 16, Walker was a 40.6 overall. 33 run snaps, 33 pass snaps. 57.1 pass score. 38.3 run score. Week 17. 59.0 overall. 40 run snaps. 34 pass snaps. 66.7 pass score. 52.7 run score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: I generally agree with a lot of your posts , but there’s no way Walker was one of the worst tackles those weeks. Does Anyone really believe there were 60 plus tackles better than Walker??? There's literally nothing to disagree with, except for that crap writer Zach not doing his research. What you are arguing against is how PFF grades tackles. How that is really done is a great unknown. But what I was responding to was PFF data. I'm not saying Walker was one of the worst tackles those weeks. PFF data that they score, is. I'm simply refuting what Zach defecated onto the internet regarding Walker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, vegas492 said: There's literally nothing to disagree with, except for that crap writer Zach not doing his research. What you are arguing against is how PFF grades tackles. How that is really done is a great unknown. But what I was responding to was PFF data. I'm not saying Walker was one of the worst tackles those weeks. PFF data that they score, is. I'm simply refuting what Zach defecated onto the internet regarding Walker. I said he could be wrong , you showed he is. I am refuting against their methodology, and if they rank him in the 60s, they definitely have to re-think how they grade linemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 20 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: He very well can get it wrong. Theres also no chance that Walker was the 63rd and 66th best tackle in weeks 16 and 17. 1 sack combined between Car and Minny. 4.5 and 4.8 ypc vs them with 30 plus carries each. That suggests that the LT was probably very good . Theres real bad tackle play out there and Walker certainly isn’t bad 1, 0, 4, 5 Sacks given up, hits, hurries and pressures. If I look at the top 10 for those 3 weeks, the rough total is 7. With 0 sacks given up. Walker is at a 10 with 1 given up. I'm sure that has a relationship to the scores, not sure how, but that certainly jumps out as a differentiator for the top 10 versus Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: I said he could be wrong , you showed he is. I am refuting against their methodology, and if they rank him in the 60s, they definitely have to re-think how they grade linemen. Not saying you are wrong. Also? We may have to look at how we score our own linemen. Most of our "good" runs were coming on the right side of the line, for weeks. Those Jones runs were just money and even our end around/jet stuff seems to go to that side more. So, that means perhaps the blocking from our LT isn't weighted very much as the runs go away from him? And maybe he is supposed to get to a second level or create a seams that never happens? There's a lot that could go into run blocking, we just don't know how PFF looks at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Walker is actually #4, not #6. Not sure what you're doing @vegas492. Go to the OT rankings, customize the weeks and go 9-18. Walker is an 81.5, #4, Zach Tom is #13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Ooooh. I finally did a sort and found #6. OL Pass Blocking Efficiency. Measures pressure allowed on a per-snap basis with weighting towards sacks allowed. GB is #6. 87.8 score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Walker is actually #4, not #6. Not sure what you're doing @vegas492. Go to the OT rankings, customize the weeks and go 9-18. Walker is an 81.5, #4, Zach Tom is #13. I'm in premium stats. Weeks 9-18. Position is tackle. Blocking score report. Sort by Off. (Offense) #6 is Tyron Smith 83.1. Rasheed Walker is #31 at 71.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, vegas492 said: I'm in premium stats. Weeks 9-18. Position is tackle. Blocking score report. Sort by Off. (Offense) #6 is Tyron Smith 83.1. Rasheed Walker is #31 at 71.9. No idea what you're seeing, I'm in the same thing, he's #4. https://premium.pff.com/nfl/positions/2023/CUSTOM/offense-blocking?position=T&week=9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18&minimum=50p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Wish I could print screen on to here but here's the list: 1 Penei Sewell 2 Tyron Smith 3 Trent Williams 4 Rasheed Walker 5 Taylor Moton 6 Andrew Thomas 7 Charles Cross 8 Mike Onwenu 9 Tristan Wirfs 10 Bernhard Raimann 11 Alaric Jackson 12 Christian Darrisaw 13 Zach Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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