Off Season moves

[OzPackfan]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I wasn't being serious about MLF, Gute or Murphy making comments about Bakh. It was tongue in cheek to combat the certainty from some that he definitely WON'T be back. 

A trade just doesn't make sense UNLESS this staff really and truly thinks Walker is our LT of the future. Still, it's a hard sell to not build up the most elite OL possible right now. If Bakh is healthy, we want him. If he isn't, nobody wants him. 

I'd add "and willing to play for a fair price" to the part in bold.

[incognito_man]

21 minutes ago, OzPackfan said:

I'd add "and willing to play for a fair price" to the part in bold.

Absolutely. A contract mod will be needed.

[oldmansmell]

To me this offseason is about three things. Continuing to make our secondary like our WR room, young and growing together. I could see two of the first three picks going secondary (also think the board is going to be strong there for us). Then add a cheap experienced run body on the DL and add someone with a similar profile to the OL room. Also give me a Patriots or Ravens tree defensive guy. We're not cutting/trading anybody outside of maybe Campbell.

[ThatJerkDave]

27 minutes ago, oldmansmell said:

To me this offseason is about three things. Continuing to make our secondary like our WR room, young and growing together. I could see two of the first three picks going secondary (also think the board is going to be strong there for us). Then add a cheap experienced run body on the DL and add someone with a similar profile to the OL room. Also give me a Patriots or Ravens tree defensive guy. We're not cutting/trading anybody outside of maybe Campbell.

What are your (and the forum's) thoughts on big Jon Ford? I thought he looked pretty good in the preseason.  The team kept him around for 2 seasons, but nobody thought enough of him to poach him.  But he is a big son of a gun at 338.  Do we have anything there, or is he just a guy that keeps reserve LBs free from OL in the second half of preseason games, to see how they tackle?

[vegas492]

12 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We don't need to worry about Bakh's knee. If he can't pass a physical, they'll work out a settlement and Bakh will retire. If he looks great after this operation, they will figure out a way for him to be back. So yes, if he's back I will trust that his knee is good to go.

Jus to add to this...with all the PFF stuff that I did yesterday...sorting and trying to find Walker, I did see where Bakh had the highest ranked pass blocking score of the year.  Course we know that was just really one game.

But if the knee was hurting him some, it didn't really affect the pass blocking that he does.  And if that knee checks out as healthy?  I have little doubt that he can still be an elite tackle, regardless of which uniform he is wearing.

When the guy plays, he plays well.  

[vegas492]

11 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

What are your (and the forum's) thoughts on big Jon Ford? I thought he looked pretty good in the preseason.  The team kept him around for 2 seasons, but nobody thought enough of him to poach him.  But he is a big son of a gun at 338.  Do we have anything there, or is he just a guy that keeps reserve LBs free from OL in the second half of preseason games, to see how they tackle?

Speaking only for myself...I had forgotten about him.  If it were me, having him in camp wouldn't stop me from drafting a big DL in the draft...mid rounds.  And if I missed one in the draft?  No big deal, there's always large DL's in free agency.

[Refugee]

11 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

What are your (and the forum's) thoughts on big Jon Ford? I thought he looked pretty good in the preseason.  The team kept him around for 2 seasons, but nobody thought enough of him to poach him.  But he is a big son of a gun at 338.  Do we have anything there, or is he just a guy that keeps reserve LBs free from OL in the second half of preseason games, to see how they tackle?

Up to this point, Slaton insurance. Slaton is also huge but moves better and is playing out his rookie deal with one year left. He lets KC and Wyatt shoot the gaps while he capably eats double teams especially on early downs. Ford will get another chance next camp. Depending on price Slaton might not be a bad second contract but someone else might pay him and at that point Ford will be nice to have. 

[Kampfgeist]

Questions for people -

At what point do you believe David is going to be medically cleared?   Will his medical clearance come 2 months from now at the start of the new league year, March 13th and prior to Free Agency -OR- just prior/after Training Camp 8 months from now?

Will he be both medically cleared to play on grass....and on turf....?   

At what point do you believe Bakh would be inclined to restructure his contract, takes a pay cut and reduce injury guarantees to help the team since he has been medically cleared?

If Bakh is medically cleared prior to free agency, what is his incentive to reduce his contract?

If Bakh is not cleared prior to free agency, what is his incentive to reduce his contract 5 months before he would need to? 

Would it be a bad sign for everyone if he thought it best to reduce his pay now, essentially signaling his unease in his future health?

What does a reduced contract/cap charge look like that you are willing to take that risk?   Just how team friendly does Bakh need to be?

If Bakh is not cleared prior to March 13th, would you prefer to have an extra $21.5mil at that time to improve the team's finances and/or bring in additional talent or would you prefer to wait an additional 5 months and make a determination of his place on the team after Training Camp, essentially forgoing free agency?

 

Edited January 10 by Kampfgeist

[spilltray]

The problem with Bak for me is after 3 years of everything not working out how much can you trust medical projections until he plays and we see if it holds up. At that point it's kind of too late.

[craig]

24 minutes ago, spilltray said:

The problem with Bak for me is after 3 years of everything not working out how much can you trust medical projections until he plays and we see if it holds up. At that point it's kind of too late.

Yeah.  If he wants a low-guaranteed-dollar deal with incentives, fine.  if he insists on significant guaranteed millions, I'd say goodbye.  Obviously Gute will have better medical input, but I don't think more than $7 guaranteed.  

Given how stressed our cap is going to be in upcoming years, I'm really reluctant to commit many guaranteed millions unnecessarily on a high-risk old guy.  

[Scoremore]

14 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We don't need to worry about Bakh's knee. If he can't pass a physical, they'll work out a settlement and Bakh will retire. If he looks great after this operation, they will figure out a way for him to be back. So yes, if he's back I will trust that his knee is good to go.

Well did his knee check out medically last year?  At this point I don't care if the knee "checks out medically".  I don't think anyone can trust Bak to hold up for an entire season.  How many surgeries on that knee?  5?.  If Bak wants another shot it would have to have almost zero cap ramifications.   In other words no higher than the cap hit if we release him.  

We'll see guess it gets complicated with his contract and such.  If I'm the Packers I'd be inclined to move on. We have a young developing Walker at LT on a rookie deal.  We also have the draft.  I'd rather not waste the a spot on the 53 and hamper the development of the rookies.  Bak can go play with Rodgers. Big storm coming in on Fri-Sat in these parts.  Packers might have to fly out to Dallas early.  

[Old Guy]

29 minutes ago, craig said:

Yeah.  If he wants a low-guaranteed-dollar deal with incentives, fine.  if he insists on significant guaranteed millions, I'd say goodbye.  Obviously Gute will have better medical input, but I don't think more than $7 guaranteed.  

Given how stressed our cap is going to be in upcoming years, I'm really reluctant to commit many guaranteed millions unnecessarily on a high-risk old guy.  

Bak and his agent know there is a shortage of offensive line talent. Somebody will clear him medically and he'll get more guaranteed money that the 21 we save by cutting him. Probably in the form of a 2 - 3-year deal. I honestly do not believe he wants to be here any longer. He's the old man on the team and the offense has really gelled on and off the field without him. He'd be a stranger in his own locker room to an extent. 

There is no incentive for him to take a pay cut and he won't. Therefore, the only real choice is to release him. 

[Packer_ESP]

16 hours ago, Scoremore said:

If Bak wants another shot it would have to have almost zero cap ramifications.   In other words no higher than the cap hit if we release him.  

All of his cap hit for 2024 is from prorrated boni, which means what you said is literally impossible. His cap will be at the very least 19M + whatever salary he's paid in 2024 (even if it's the minimum). He won't play for the minimum of course so the best the Packers could do cap wise is probably minimum salary + converting some salary to a bonus so they can spread it to 2025 and beyond through void years. I assume there will be around a 23-25M cap hit if he stays (19M dead + 1M salary + 3-5M of new prorated bonus).

[Scoremore]

4 hours ago, Packer_ESP said:

All of his cap hit for 2024 is from prorrated boni, which means what you said is literally impossible. His cap will be at the very least 19M + whatever salary he's paid in 2024 (even if it's the minimum). He won't play for the minimum of course so the best the Packers could do cap wise is probably minimum salary + converting some salary to a bonus so they can spread it to 2025 and beyond through void years. I assume there will be around a 23-25M cap hit if he stays (19M dead + 1M salary + 3-5M of new prorated bonus).

Yah I'm not a capoligist.  Just know that we save 21 mil by releasing him.  Could live with your scenario but still just don't trust his knee.  Just think that money could be better used elsewhere.  FA in the S market perhaps a RB.  Bak has barely played in 3 years.  Strung along for too long.  It's time to move on.  Listening to Nags he thinks Bak will be back.  I disagree. 

We are going young and depending on the draft probably draft an OT up pretty high.  Walker coming on as of late pretty much eliminates the need to bring Bak back IMO.  Trust Gute will do what is best for the team.  Time to part ways.   Really be nice if we could get something in return for him rather than an outright release.  We'll see a lot of smart people disagree with me. 

[pgwingman]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:29 AM, Packer_ESP said:

All of his cap hit for 2024 is from prorrated boni, which means what you said is literally impossible. His cap will be at the very least 19M + whatever salary he's paid in 2024 (even if it's the minimum). He won't play for the minimum of course so the best the Packers could do cap wise is probably minimum salary + converting some salary to a bonus so they can spread it to 2025 and beyond through void years. I assume there will be around a 23-25M cap hit if he stays (19M dead + 1M salary + 3-5M of new prorated bonus).

Yeah part of the weird part is that Bakh is due a $10m roster bonus in march, and he's specifically avoided void year contracts when the Packers were "All-In". Bakh might turn around and add void years, but I'd bet anything that the Packers want to get back to the flat cap, pay-as-you-go model of spending that's been a hallmark of the franchise up until 2019. In my mind, his cap floor would be $1m salary, $19m dead, and that $10m bonus.

It's a tough game and a tough business, but I just don't see how the Packers can justify bringing him back when cutting him makes so much financial sense.