Wild Card GDT: Green Bay Packers @ Dallas Cowboys

[Dallas94Ware]

5 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

Watching the Bucs game. The Bucs have been handling things fairly well so far, but you get the feeling that if they don't go up 2 or more scores, they're going to lose.

If they find themselves in a tie or behind, they don't have the guns to come back.

Baker took the blame in Cleveland for a bad choice of HC, a bad front office decision to bring in Beckham for all they paid to get him, playing through a slew of injuries that would land most other QBs on IR, and a poor year that resulted from all of that. But throughout his career, all the young man has done has proven the doubters wrong. 

And we have seen that this year. Give him a decent staff calling the shots, some good players around him who don't create dissention, and a defense that lets him play to his strength instead of needing to play catch up every week...and you have a young passer who can win you games, and even challenge good teams in the playoffs. 

He wasn't/isnt a bust. He was just drafted to a team that has historically damaged some very talented young QBs by just simply not being good, getting them beat up, losing a ton of games, creating an unstable and even chaotic environment in front office/coaching staff. And basically just doing everything wrong. 

Maybe he isn't going to be a consistent runner for an all pro slot, and maybe he wasn't the best QB of that draft class who deserved to go #1 overall. That's okay. Cause you still can't say he isn't a pretty good QB, either. And that Buccs team he is on, is still very close to the same team that won a ring just a few years ago. So they have a roster capable of pushing for a ring, and a QB capable of making good use of that roster.

Sadly for them though, as good as their coordinators are. The man at the helm really drags down the quality of their coaching staff. And I'm not basing that on Bowles time in NY, where I saw his teams a LOT as a former NYer. But rather on the constant mismanagement of situational football the last two years in TB.

[plan9misfit]

2 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

That's right I forgot that you're a Michigan guy. I have to ask. What is your opinion on Harbaughs ability to truly manage a team and a staff? In SF his management skills were pretty much what made him lose favor with his staff and the front office, not his ability to coach, teach, lead and acout/develop talent because those were all quality traits of his.

But I'd be afraid to bring him to Dallas without knowing the culture and leadership and management he brings with him aren't going to backfire in 2 or 3 years. As a Notre Dame guy personally, as that's where I played and began my coaching affair, I don't typically keep up to speed with things at Michigan (think I read their next scheduled meeting is in 2033 lol). 

I don't often agree with you but I do respect your view points, so I'd love to hear(read) your thoughts on this.

I have no concerns with his ability to build and manage a staff. If anything, he and his brother are two of the very best in football. His issue in SF was a power struggle between him and Trent Baalke. Simply put, they hated each other. It had nothing to do with the staff. Jim has a tendency to rub ownership the wrong way because he’s a very mercurial guy, but his staff and players love him. He’s as tough as nails, and instills and very rigid, disciplined culture with a high degree of accountability. When he was coaching in SF, they didn’t hold people accountable, so it created conflict with ownership when he did it, anyway (read: benching Kaepernick). Similar to a Parcells or a Belichick, if Jerry wants to win more than just remaining relevant and drawing $$$ (and we know that he doesn’t), then he’ll need to allow Harbaugh enough latitude to hold players accountable for being lazy, complacent, and arrogant, because he’ll do it whether Jerry “allows” it or not.

[HDsportsfan]

8 hours ago, plan9misfit said:

I have no concerns with his ability to build and manage a staff. If anything, he and his brother are two of the very best in football. His issue in SF was a power struggle between him and Trent Baalke. Simply put, they hated each other. It had nothing to do with the staff. Jim has a tendency to rub ownership the wrong way because he’s a very mercurial guy, but his staff and players love him. He’s as tough as nails, and instills and very rigid, disciplined culture with a high degree of accountability. When he was coaching in SF, they didn’t hold people accountable, so it created conflict with ownership when he did it, anyway (read: benching Kaepernick). Similar to a Parcells or a Belichick, if Jerry wants to win more than just remaining relevant and drawing $$$ (and we know that he doesn’t), then he’ll need to allow Harbaugh enough latitude to hold players accountable for being lazy, complacent, and arrogant, because he’ll do it whether Jerry “allows” it or not.

That's exactly what we need. He was successful in SF.

[MaddHatter]

10 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

I think this is an accurate assessment.

People seem to think "system QB" is an insult. But all QBs in some fashion or another, are products of their system. A good coach is going to put their QB in the best position to succeed that they can! Mask what they don't do so well, maximize what they indeed do well. 

That is why Shannahan has had success with so many different styles of QB. He creates a gameplan, playbook and philosophy around what his QB can do. You can see the underlaying concepts that he prefers, and it's likely why they selected Lance at #3 overall - because that would be the ideal fit for what Shannahan wants to execute. If you put Dak with a coach who creates a system for his passer, who's base concepts really do make use of mobility behind the LoS and throwing on the move, allowing the QB to beat man coverage by threatening them with both his legs and his arm, the story of Dak Prescott could be a very different narrative than what is spoken of him currently.

Every system he has been in, has been more a installation of "this is what we are doing." And not so much of "this is what we can do to let you be your best." And none of those systems, even this tailored Texas Coast nonsense that at least attempted to make use of Dak's best skills, was still not an ideal fit or a sculpting of something designed just for him.

But the fact he still led the league in TD throws this year, and put up the wins and numbers he has throughout his career, shows he is very much a good QB. I'll forever defend him and how good he actually is or was, just as I've done for Romo. But I also won't be unrealistic either. Being very good doesn't mean he's on the level of some of those true all time talents, like your Marinos, and Elways and Peytons of the world. 

Problem is, he's being paid like he is. And that therein, the problem lay. When the cap hit is on the level of a guy who can hold up the weight of the entire offense on his own, but in reality he is more on the level of a guy who needs a few extra backs to help shoulder that weight...it becomes difficult to not at least contemplate how to move forward without him.

Caps go up, deals get restructured, money is never as tight as it appears for the Joneses.  Dak isn’t expected or required to be Marino or Montana, just needs to remain at that top 5 level of current QB play and we will be just fine

[TVScout]

23 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Caps go up, deals get restructured, money is never as tight as it appears for the Joneses.  Dak isn’t expected or required to be Marino or Montana, just needs to remain at that top 5 level of current QB play and we will be just fine

If Dilfer can win a Superbowl................

[D82]

25 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Caps go up, deals get restructured, money is never as tight as it appears for the Joneses.  Dak isn’t expected or required to be Marino or Montana, just needs to remain at that top 5 level of current QB play and we will be just fine

If Dallas had been smart and done Dak's deal sooner and not paid a RB big money, they'd have a bit more room than what they do now. 

Even still, they can make things work with the cap as it is. 

[HDsportsfan]

57 minutes ago, TVScout said:

If Dilfer can win a Superbowl................

Correct. And I think Dak can as well, just not here in Dallas.

[The_Slamman]

2 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

Caps go up, deals get restructured, money is never as tight as it appears for the Joneses.  Dak isn’t expected or required to be Marino or Montana, just needs to remain at that top 5 level of current QB play and we will be just fine

If never advancing deeper in the playoffs is “doing just fine,” you’re right.  Can the cap be manipulated?  Sure.  Teams can borrow from the future to pay for the present.  Think about this… in 2025, Dak will be the 12th highest paid qb in the nfl by making $36M.  There’s only one problem… Dak is a free agent in 2025.  That is just his dead money from the past 3 years.  
 

Now, let’s go a step further… we’ve paid Dak as a top 5 qb, where has it gotten us?  If winning the division is your end game, he’s done that.  But the closest he’s come to advancing past the divisional round of the playoffs was when he was on his rookie contract and we had the best rushing team in the nfl.  Relying on Dak to be the man and deliver in the playoffs does not work.  He’s proven that over and over again.  Something needs to change and imo the change needs to be paying Dak elite qb money.  Dak needs to agree to a team friendly deal where we can build a roster to improve the team.  With Dak counting $60m against the cap next year and being $16m over the cap… we cannot improve the team in FA.  Do you think the team will be better next year when we lose Tyron Smith, Biadasz and pollard?  Realistically, probably not.  In fact, we are more reliant on Dak to be Superman when Dak needs a strong run game to completely take pressure off him.
 

if we were paying a qb on a rookie deal, all of that changes.  We could be like the 49ers… great OL, great rb, great receivers, great DL… they can afford to have the highest paid rb, de, lt, and highly paid wrs, te, lb, DTs and corner because they are paying their qb peanuts.  But, the conundrum of the nfl is you can’t have both highly paid qb and highly paid everything else.  
 

it’s a long way to say that we’ve already seen (repeatedly) what a highly paid Dak gives us… slightly above average team who utterly fails in the post season.  To change the result, we need to change the pattern that’s led to post season failure.

Edited January 16 by The_Slamman

[plan9misfit]

2 hours ago, TVScout said:

If Dilfer can win a Superbowl................

Different era. The 2000 Ravens defense would lead the league in penalties and ejected players in today's NFL.

[MaddHatter]

2 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

If never advancing deeper in the playoffs is “doing just fine,” you’re right.  Can the cap be manipulated?  Sure.  Teams can borrow from the future to pay for the present.  Think about this… in 2025, Dak will be the 12th highest paid qb in the nfl by making $36M.  There’s only one problem… Dak is a free agent in 2025.  That is just his dead money from the past 3 years.  
 

Now, let’s go a step further… we’ve paid Dak as a top 5 qb, where has it gotten us?  If winning the division is your end game, he’s done that.  But the closest he’s come to advancing past the divisional round of the playoffs was when he was on his rookie contract and we had the best rushing team in the nfl.  Relying on Dak to be the man and deliver in the playoffs does not work.  He’s proven that over and over again.  Something needs to change and imo the change needs to be paying Dak elite qb money.  Dak needs to agree to a team friendly deal where we can build a roster to improve the team.  With Dak counting $60m against the cap next year and being $16m over the cap… we cannot improve the team in FA.  Do you think the team will be better next year when we lose Tyron Smith, Biadasz and pollard?  Realistically, probably not.  In fact, we are more reliant on Dak to be Superman when Dak needs a strong run game to completely take pressure off him.
 

if we were paying a qb on a rookie deal, all of that changes.  We could be like the 49ers… great OL, great rb, great receivers, great DL… they can afford to have the highest paid rb, de, lt, and highly paid wrs, te, lb, DTs and corner because they are paying their qb peanuts.  But, the conundrum of the nfl is you can’t have both highly paid qb and highly paid everything else.  
 

it’s a long way to say that we’ve already seen (repeatedly) what a highly paid Dak gives us… slightly above average team who utterly fails in the post season.  To change the result, we need to change the pattern that’s led to post season failure.

Dak is far from the reason for those post season failures - surely we can both agree there

[MaddHatter]

4 hours ago, D82 said:

If Dallas had been smart and done Dak's deal sooner and not paid a RB big money, they'd have a bit more room than what they do now. 

Even still, they can make things work with the cap as it is. 

Yeah that Zeke deal was dumb - any big deal for a running back not named CMC or AP is dumb

[D82]

1 minute ago, MaddHatter said:

Yeah that Zeke deal was dumb - any big deal for a running back not named CMC or AP is dumb

That Jaylon contract wasn't much better...

[MaddHatter]

9 minutes ago, D82 said:

That Jaylon contract wasn't much better...

Seems like Dak and DLaw are maybe the only big ones as of late to work out

[The_Slamman]

33 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Dak is far from the reason for those post season failures - surely we can both agree there

100% disagree.  Dak’s 2 ints in the first half gifted the packers 14 points and gave us a 27 point deficit.  Last year, same thing with the ints in SF which lead to a loss.  The year before that, another loss at home to SF where Dak did not play well.  We are talking about 2 home playoff games in 3 years where he really struggled.  And just an fyi… I know you weren’t around much during those years but I called it before the games.  I knew Dak would struggle.  Dak could be a very good bus driver qb but he is not a guy who can carry the team against good teams.  He needs a strong running game and a defense that will give him extra opportunities.  This is why I HATED HIS CONTRACT EXTENSION.  If Dak plays for a team friendly deal, great.  If not, he can GTFO.  We have the pieces in place for a young qb to succeed and the savings, we can bring in some FAs/trades and put together a SF type roster.
 

 

[WheatieMan]

Packers have had some of the most brutal playoff losses since the sole SB run in ‘10-11. They blew it at home against the Giants in ‘11 as a one seed. Almost noncompetitive. Then they had the Seattle collapse in ‘14. They were also no shows against the @49ers in ‘12 and ‘19. They blew it as a home team against TB12 in ‘20 and 49ers in ‘21. They were kind of due to make an unexpected run.

Will they beat San Fran (finally) this year? Probably not, but it would give this past weekend’s result more credence. I could easily see them beating Det or TB following that. 

Dallas needs a run where there are absolutely no expectations with a young QB and coach on the road. There is too much pressure when they are at home. I’d expect them to win the division next year, but Dallas won’t make a run when they have everything lined up for them.