MaddHatter Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 7 hours ago, RuskieTitan said: The guy just can't handle the pressure of the playoffs. Regular season, he's able to play fast and loose, and performs. He's likely deserving the second MVP. But just like countless other chokers in other sports, when it comes to the playoffs he withers. 2-5, this is who he is. Using a Houston team that barely made the playoffs as some example of him doing well, he didn't feel the same pressure - his defense gave up 3 all game, special teams the other 7. Could they go on a streak and win? Possibly, but unlikely if Lamar continues to be who he is when he faces elite teams in the playoffs. And with how crowded the AFC is, it's no guarantee his regular season success ever reaches the postseason. I don't understand how people are so quick to judge a man's career - Peyton Manning was 0-3 in his first 3 post season appearances. Then he was 2-4, then 3-5, then 3-6 before finally getting over the hump and winning the Super Bowl in 2006, his 8th season in the league. After that he was one-and-done 5 more times in his career and ended up 2-2 in the Super Bowl. He was, and to this day still is, considered an all-time great. Calling Lamar a choker or incapable of winning this soon is asinine. Will he ever win it? Who knows... is he capable of it? absolutely 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 22 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: I don't understand how people are so quick to judge a man's career - Peyton Manning was 0-3 in his first 3 post season appearances. Then he was 2-4, then 3-5, then 3-6 before finally getting over the hump and winning the Super Bowl in 2006, his 8th season in the league. After that he was one-and-done 5 more times in his career and ended up 2-2 in the Super Bowl. He was, and to this day still is, considered an all-time great. Calling Lamar a choker or incapable of winning this soon is asinine. Will he ever win it? Who knows... is he capable of it? absolutely Why are you comparing an all time great to Lamar lol. Compare Dak too while you’re at it. Anyone with a brain scoffs at that comparison. It’s a coping mechanism that it’s literally the best case scenario that you’re hoping for. Peyton was without a doubt a top 1-2 QB for years and years there was no doubt…. Can we say the same about Lamar and Dak? There seems to be a new top 5 QBs every year now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, El Ramster said: Why are you comparing an all time great to Lamar lol. Compare Dak too while you’re at it. Anyone with a brain scoffs at that comparison. It’s a coping mechanism that it’s literally the best case scenario that you’re hoping for. Peyton was without a doubt a top 1-2 QB for years and years there was no doubt…. Can we say the same about Lamar and Dak? There seems to be a new top 5 QBs every year now. Peyton didn't earn his first AP All-Pro or League MVP until his 6th season - Lamar's about to win his 2nd League MVP and has 2 AP All-Pro's in his first 6 seasons. How in the world is this comparison faulty? You have no idea how Lamar will be remembered until it's over. And some of us are old enough to remember the chatter around Peyton 20 years ago and it was a lot like the chatter in this thread. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, Tom Brady, Steve McNair - all guys playing at a very high level during those early Peyton years when he wasn't considered "without a doubt top 1-2 QB" - did people have him there prior to 2003? Sure, but it was heavily debated even after 2003 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Peyton didn't earn his first AP All-Pro or League MVP until his 6th season - Lamar's about to win his 2nd League MVP and has 2 AP All-Pro's in his first 6 seasons. How in the world is this comparison faulty? You have no idea how Lamar will be remembered until it's over. And some of us are old enough to remember the chatter around Peyton 20 years ago and it was a lot like the chatter in this thread. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, Tom Brady, Steve McNair - all guys playing at a very high level during those early Peyton years when he wasn't considered "without a doubt top 1-2 QB" - did people have him there prior to 2003? Sure, but it was heavily debated even after 2003 When manning was in his prime no one was better my G… He was the best. Defenses let him down a few times and then surprisingly the defense showed up in 06. I remember everyone and their momma had picked the chiefs, everyone said Larry would run for over 200. He did had have his shortcomings specially against NE. He played bad, but every year he kept coming back better and better. Lamar has got to do a lot more.. Everyone knows Josh was the MVP this year and it’s an award you can give it to Mahomes every year! Lamar wasted his best DVOA defense and that’s all on him. Take that stat son.. Manning with this defense? Son are you ok? This defense was so good it just needed a game manager.. This team was a freaking treat to watch. Till Lamar figures it out and shows up in the post season he’ll always have his doubters.. What can he do? Carry the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 12 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Peyton didn't earn his first AP All-Pro or League MVP until his 6th season - Lamar's about to win his 2nd League MVP and has 2 AP All-Pro's in his first 6 seasons. How in the world is this comparison faulty? You have no idea how Lamar will be remembered until it's over. And some of us are old enough to remember the chatter around Peyton 20 years ago and it was a lot like the chatter in this thread. Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, Tom Brady, Steve McNair - all guys playing at a very high level during those early Peyton years when he wasn't considered "without a doubt top 1-2 QB" - did people have him there prior to 2003? Sure, but it was heavily debated even after 2003 (Not aimed at you) Shouldn't take a genius to understand why someone would be comparing two players who earned multiple MVP's before winning a Superbowl and were largely regarded as playoff chokers early in their careers. All Lamar has to do is have one good playoff run and/or win a Superbowl (Manning didn't even play well in that SB run, but he finally got a defense) and people will forget or move on. But until then, he's got the label and it's justifiably earned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 7 minutes ago, El Ramster said: When manning was in his prime no one was better my G… He was the best. Defenses let him down a few times and then surprisingly the defense showed up in 06. I remember everyone and their momma had picked the chiefs, everyone said Larry would run for over 200. He did had have his shortcomings specially against NE. He played bad, but every year he kept coming back better and better. Lamar has got to do a lot more.. Everyone knows Josh was the MVP this year and it’s an award you can give it to Mahomes every year! Lamar wasted his best DVOA defense and that’s all on him. Take that stat son.. Manning with this defense? Son are you ok? This defense was so good it just needed a game manager.. This team was a freaking treat to watch. Till Lamar figures it out and shows up in the post season he’ll always have his doubters.. What can he do? Carry the boys. So much revisionist history here, it's palpable. You're talking about 2006 when Peyton won it - I'm talking about 2003 when he was 6yrs into his career, the same amount of time Lamar has in the league. Lamar's arguably had a better "career" to this point in their respective careers but you said I couldn't compare the two. Peyton was labelled a choker for the better part of his career, a guy who couldn't get over the hump, or could only get over the hump when he was carried, by tons of people on this very forum, as well as the media and sports analysts abroad. If you want to say that Lamar is a "choker" which is what Ruskie basically said, or at least how I read it, and that he will never win anything, then I think you're mistaken and shortsighted - and likely one of the same people who called Peyton a choker who would never win a Super Bowl. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 15 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: So much revisionist history here, it's palpable. You're talking about 2006 when Peyton won it - I'm talking about 2003 when he was 6yrs into his career, the same amount of time Lamar has in the league. Lamar's arguably had a better "career" to this point in their respective careers but you said I couldn't compare the two. Peyton was labelled a choker for the better part of his career, a guy who couldn't get over the hump, or could only get over the hump when he was carried, by tons of people on this very forum, as well as the media and sports analysts abroad. If you want to say that Lamar is a "choker" which is what Ruskie basically said, or at least how I read it, and that he will never win anything, then I think you're mistaken and shortsighted - and likely one of the same people who called Peyton a choker who would never win a Super Bowl. Better career? Lmao. Ima make your sig now. Bad dog. What are you on bro. don’t talk to me no more. Lamar better career than a certified goat? Reported. @ET80 @Forge book em boys, take him away and throw away the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Just now, El Ramster said: Better career? Lmao. Ima make your sig now. Bad dog. What are you on bro. don’t talk to me no more. Lamar better career than a certified goat? Reported. @ET80 @Forge book em boys, take him away and throw away the key. ...so sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 minutes ago, El Ramster said: Better career? Lmao. Ima make your sig now. Bad dog. What are you on bro. don’t talk to me no more. Lamar better career than a certified goat? Reported. @ET80 @Forge book em boys, take him away and throw away the key. "TO THIS POINT" - meaning 6yrs into Peyton's career vs. the first 6yrs of Lamar's career. One has multiple AP All Pros and League MVPS, the other doesn't. They have similar post season records and have similar perspectives in the league. Show me where I'm wrong (look forward to that Time Machine you're going to prop up) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 8 minutes ago, ET80 said: ...so sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 12 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: "TO THIS POINT" - meaning 6yrs into Peyton's career vs. the first 6yrs of Lamar's career. One has multiple AP All Pros and League MVPS, the other doesn't. They have similar post season records and have similar perspectives in the league. Show me where I'm wrong (look forward to that Time Machine you're going to prop up) If Lamar ever wins a Super Bowl ima get his face tatted on my chest as a reminder unless he becomes a ram! 😂 Peyton Manning had a passer rating of 88.1 with 24,885 yards, 167 touchdowns and 110 interceptions in 96 games in his first 6 seasons. Lamar Jackson had a passer rating of 98.0 with 15,887 yards, 125 touchdowns and 45 interceptions in 86 games in his first 6 seasons. Sorry my Love I’m still taking Peyton’s greatness over Lamar’s. Ima wait for Seagulls to come in running and post his rushing stats/numbers… Pey also had one more win in the playoffs.. Even with Lamar rushing total he falls short though.. Love is love and I hold Manning to higher pedestal than a ton of guys… Guy was a Monsta. You heard Ray and Reed talk about Manning and that’s all I need. The only other guy they held in that regard was the goat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Peyton Manning didn't win a SB until he was 30. Lamar and the Ravens will be perfectly fine. The Mahomes dominance will take a break at some point; even Brady and the Pats went 10 years without winning one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 9 minutes ago, El Ramster said: If Lamar ever wins a Super Bowl ima get his face tatted on my chest as a reminder unless he becomes a ram! 😂 Peyton Manning had a passer rating of 88.1 with 24,885 yards, 167 touchdowns and 110 interceptions in 96 games in his first 6 seasons. Lamar Jackson had a passer rating of 98.0 with 15,887 yards, 125 touchdowns and 45 interceptions in 86 games in his first 6 seasons. Sorry my Love I’m still taking Peyton’s greatness over Lamar’s. Ima wait for Seagulls to come in running and post his rushing stats/numbers… Pey also had one more win in the playoffs.. Even with Lamar rushing total he falls short though.. Love is love and I hold Manning to higher pedestal than a ton of guys… Guy was a Monsta. You heard Ray and Reed talk about Manning and that’s all I need. The only other guy they held in that regard was the goat. Well...yeah...why wouldn't you include Lamar's rushing stats? That's kinda a major part of his game. You're taking Peyton strictly because: You hate Lamar You love Peyton You can't read statistics Here's their PFR comparison: https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=MannPe00&p1yrfrom=1998&p1yrto=2003&player_id2=JackLa00&p2yrfrom=2018&p2yrto=2023 The basic analysis here is: Peyton throws for more yards, but turns the ball over a ton more. And that's just their passing. Lamar adds virtually the same value as a passer as Manning, and then you add in his running value. There's no shot anyone is taking Manning over that. Again though, we have the luxury of thinking about Peyton Manning in 2024, where he's a Hall of Fame top-5 QB of all-time without question. In 2003 he wasn't that same player. He was arguably just a gunslinger like Brett Favre who threw way too many INT's. Edited January 30 by AFlaccoSeagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugpimpen Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 You guys really looking for a rational argument from Ramster here? Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Well...yeah...why wouldn't you include Lamar's rushing stats? That's kinda a major part of his game. You're taking Peyton strictly because: You hate Lamar You love Peyton You can't read statistics Here's their PFR comparison: https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=MannPe00&p1yrfrom=1998&p1yrto=2003&player_id2=JackLa00&p2yrfrom=2018&p2yrto=2023 Again though, we have the luxury of thinking about Peyton Manning in 2024, where he's a Hall of Fame top-5 QB of all-time without question. In 2003 he wasn't that same player. He was arguably just a gunslinger like Brett Favre who threw way too many INT's. Compare them I don’t mind. But like Mahomes you don’t need a bigger sample size to measure greatness. I really do believe the eye test demonstrates that. If Mahomes retired tomorrow there’s no doubt he’s a top 3 QB of all time. Same went with Manning. You just knew he was too great not to win a ring or 2. So that’s my take, I really can’t see Lamar winning one even at his best. Because we’ve seen him at his best twice and he sharted the bed. It wasn’t the defense letting him down it was him.. same with Lebron we all knew he was going to get a ring. Greatness always wills its way no matter the obstacle. I don’t see Lamar in that light. I see Lamar as Cam 2.0? Is that fair? Idk, I just don’t see greatness. I see a an amazing human being who over came all odds to become one of the best at his position. He’s really good, but is he great? No. He’s got so much god given talent to do a whole lot more than what he’s shown and done… That’s my whole point of view. He could willed his team to win but he didn’t. The moment was too big for him. It wasn’t his kicker letting him down, it wasn’t his defense, it was Lamar not showing up. Then you hear all the excuses. OC, HC and game plan. Like Damm that’s a patter now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.