NFL Draft Talk (Mainly Titans)

[Chocolateman78]

I also just feel like where ever we pick next year, there will also be like 5-6 WR's that everyone will be drooling over and declaring the best ever. 

[Chocolateman78]

Of course the Titans could sign Tyron Smith and Calvin Ridley the first day of free agency then go edge rusher, corner in the first/second...

blow everyone's socks off. 

Edited March 5 by Chocolateman78

[TJM217]

17 hours ago, Andrei01 said:

I know, which is why I thought it was telling that both those top 15-20 (arguably both are/were higher than that, but for argument's sake) players at their respective position were drafted 16th overall or higher. The chances of landing a "good maybe not necessarily elite, elite" starting T go lower and lower as you move out of the top 10, 20 and 1st round completely. In contrast, that is simply not the case for the WR position. You constantly find 2nd or mid-round picks turning into "good, but perhaps not quite elite" players in the league.

That being said, I do generally believe T > WR in terms of positional value regarding a high pick, but here I am mostly playing devil's advocate. If you think two good players > one great player, which is what I believe you were trying to say, it makes much more sense to go OT 1st and then WR 2nd.

These are my exact thoughts on this draft. After two years of the worst tackle play in the league Titans need a starting left tackle. Problem is left tackles just don't hit free agency. The only way to really turn around this position is to draft one early. 

 

I'll add on another point that's been bugging me. There is this huge argument that tackle can wait because of Bill Callahan can just "coach them up". I want to see what Callahan will do with Olu. Olu has ideal tackle size, speed and strength. He needs some coaching with his hands and drive. I think I would take Olu over Rome and feel very comfortable 

[Daniel]

Are we really saying Lewan was a middle of the pack tackle now?  Lewan made the Pro Bowl three times, in an era where one spot went to Joe Thomas every single year.  He was NFL All Rookie his rookie year.  Hell, he might have been Pro Bowl again if he wasn't suspended in 2019.  Injuries derailed the rest of his career, and that was kind of a fluke.

If you tell me "this player will be the same as Taylor Lewan" then I run to the podium to pick them.

What kind of nonsense talk is that?

[KingTitan]

34 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Are we really saying Lewan was a middle of the pack tackle now?  Lewan made the Pro Bowl three times, in an era where one spot went to Joe Thomas every single year.  He was NFL All Rookie his rookie year.  Hell, he might have been Pro Bowl again if he wasn't suspended in 2019.  Injuries derailed the rest of his career, and that was kind of a fluke.

If you tell me "this player will be the same as Taylor Lewan" then I run to the podium to pick them.

What kind of nonsense talk is that?

He was a very good LT.  Unfortunately, injuries do play a part in how he is viewed, for me at least. 

If I were to make an argument to counter yours, I'd say he played a full season twice.  Had two great seasons. PED's, Penalties, personality all at times took diminished his status to me. 

PFF Offensive Tackle Rankings: Top 32 ahead of the 2023 NFL season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

Using that list as just an example. During Taylor's time, I would say he averaged maybe the David Bakhtiari level. Which we know is nothing to sneeze at. That's close the middle out of 32 starting OTs. At his height maybe 5-7 range, which earned him a contract. 

There was a time where I never worried about an edge rusher having a day against us, it was mainly because of Lewan.  
Be great to get Lewan at his height again. 

 

As for how that compares to the draft, He was the 3rd OT taken. I'd do something similar if I had a choice this year. "3rd" OT is likely still going to be a very good player. That can perform among the best. I hope we trade down and don't get stuck on "we must take Alt."

[TitanRedd]

Some of y’all keep making it important about drafting a LT, truth be told you need a RT more so than a LT, this isn’t the NFL of old, most DC’s put the best pass rusher on the left side to create a mismatch, the only thing makes the LT so big of importance is it’s the QB blind side. That being said I just want us to get an all pro or pro bowl caliber T at either side. 

[KingTitan]

3 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

Some of y’all keep making it important about drafting a LT, truth be told you need a RT more so than a LT, this isn’t the NFL of old, most DC’s put the best pass rusher on the left side to create a mismatch, the only thing makes the LT so big of importance is it’s the QB blind side. That being said I just want us to get an all pro or pro bowl caliber T at either side. 

Yeah. I personally don't think Alt is just head and shoulders above some of the other guys, but he plays LT, so it makes him more important to a lot of people. Getting a great RT is just as important. 

[TitanRedd]

3 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

Yeah. I personally don't think Alt is just head and shoulders above some of the other guys, but he plays LT, so it makes him more important to a lot of people. Getting a great RT is just as important. 

I feel the exact same way. The game has changed 

[Daniel]

The reason left tackles are more important, and still are for right handed QBs, is that it's the QB's blind side.  And they can do things themselves to avoid hits they see coming.

Taylor Lewan has said repeatedly how difficult it is for some guys to flip sides.  Radunz has said the same.  I will agree that the distinction between the run blocking right tackle and pass blocking left tackle of old has faded to some degree, but again, the blind side difference is still a thing.  And difficulty doing everything on the opposite side is still a thing.  The distinction matters less than it used to, but it hasn't disappeared completely.

[Andrei01]

6 hours ago, KingTitan said:

As for how that compares to the draft, He was the 3rd OT taken. I'd do something similar if I had a choice this year. "3rd" OT is likely still going to be a very good player. That can perform among the best. I hope we trade down and don't get stuck on "we must take Alt."

While, yes, I would say the third OT in this class is likely to be a good player, it's irrelevant that Lewan himself was the 3rd OT off the board. He was the 11th overall pick in the Draft, and for a reason. The third OT drafted in 2017 was selected 34th overall. Obviously, they share one thing in common and that's being the 3rd player at their position taken off the board, but their valuation is immensely different. How do we know that? One was the 11th pick in the Draft, the other one was 34th.

Also, while, yes, the transition from one side to the other might be harder for some, there's generally close to no difference in actual value between LT and RT at this point. Fun fact, but 6 of the top 10 highest paid tackles in the NFL play RT.

[SerenityNow]

If Alt is there at 7, I think that's the pick, but the more I watch Odunze and the more I think about it... I think the decision is closer than I initially thought. Say best case scenario we're picking between the next Trent Williams and the next Davante Adams. What's more valuable in today's game? Having a future Hall of Famer at WR or a future Hall of Famer at Left Tackle? I think the more I lay it out like that, I lean towards picking Odunze, because as Cally has already said, the player that's scoring you TDs is more directly responsible for wins vs losses. It's an oversimplification to a much larger picture, but it makes sense.  The biggest thing is our OLine has been below average to absolutely dreadful over the last two years. If we can raise our OLine play to a level where we are at least league average and our offense can actually function, that alone should account for several more wins on the season. 

The question is, do we need an All Pro level LT to raise our Oline play from horrendous to average so that we're functional offensively? Or can we raise that level of play and have a successful offensive unit with a mix and match approach of Free agent additions all over the line and say a second round LT while adding hopefully a top tier WR in Odunze? 

I'd be interested in seeing Chad Brinker's analytics model on Wins Above Replacement with Odunze on the team Vs Alt. I know he has one, and they've probably been looking at that a lot lol. 

I'd imagine Odunze wins out as the more valuable pick between the two, but if we go that route, we better not miss on whatever LT we end up taking later.

Edited March 6 by SerenityNow

[KingTitan]

I think there is no wrong way to go about it. 
 

When I hear people say you MUST do it this way, I kinda cringe. 

One OT isn't going to magically fix the line and protect Levis. One WR isn't going to make Levis a top tier QB. Going to need to build both spots through FA and draft. 

Option A: You draft a LT at 7. Comeback and likely get a WR in the 2nd. The WR won't be an automatic top WR but has the potential to be very good, maybe more.
Option B: You take a WR at 7 that has the potential but one of the best in the league. Comeback in the 2nd and take a OT that you really believe in and is approved by OG Cally.
Option C Trade down and take your best player, comeback in the 2nd address a need (OT/WR), take the extra pick and hit the other need (OT/WR)

[Andrei01]

29 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I think there is no wrong way to go about it. 
 

When I hear people say you MUST do it this way, I kinda cringe. 

One OT isn't going to magically fix the line and protect Levis. One WR isn't going to make Levis a top tier QB. Going to need to build both spots through FA and draft. 

Option A: You draft a LT at 7. Comeback and likely get a WR in the 2nd. The WR won't be an automatic top WR but has the potential to be very good, maybe more.
Option B: You take a WR at 7 that has the potential but one of the best in the league. Comeback in the 2nd and take a OT that you really believe in and is approved by OG Cally.
Option C Trade down and take your best player, comeback in the 2nd address a need (OT/WR), take the extra pick and hit the other need (OT/WR)

To be honest, I kind of cringe even more when I see/hear people trying to pigeonhole us into drafting WR & OT with the first two picks.

Like, ok, at 7, there's a good chance that BPA would happen to play one of the those two positions, though I'd argue there are at least a couple of defensive players that could have a case for it.

But we've all pretty much agreed we are rebuilding right now. What's the point of reaching for a need with a top 10 pick year 1 into a rebuild? Long-term, why would anyone believe putting a stopgap on a position of current need would be ideal over adding one or two better prospects that happen to play different positions? Especially when LT isn't the only need on the OL, and we could really use some pass-rush and CB help as well?

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Andrei01 said:

But we've all pretty much agreed we are rebuilding right now. What's the point of reaching for a need with a top 10 pick year 1 into a rebuild? Long-term, why would anyone believe putting a stopgap on a position of current need would be ideal over adding one or two better prospects that happen to play different positions? Especially when LT isn't the only need on the OL, and we could really use some pass-rush and CB help as well?

Because the first step in the rebuild is making sure we have a QB, and it is, objectively, the most important step, and a WR or OT will actually help that process, where a corner or pass rusher doesn’t. So those are both lesser needs and worse for the long term betterment of the team.

[Andrei01]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Because the first step in the rebuild is making sure we have a QB, and it is, objectively, the most important step, and a WR or OT will actually help that process, where a corner or pass rusher doesn’t. So those are both lesser needs and worse for the long term betterment of the team.

We could ensure he has someone to keep him standing up more often and someone that could catch what he's throwing without sacrificing a top 10 pick for that. Sorry, but there is just no way rebuilding and boxing yourself into a corner with a top 10 pick in the Draft mix, or ever should be forced to mix.