How does the AFC North shake out in 2024?

[Dr A W Niloc]

4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Er, you're picking the Steelers because they will have the most rookies starting? 

Highly rated rookies, instead of subpar or substandard veterans, yes.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Highly rated rookies, instead of subpar or substandard veterans, yes.

I still remember last year, when Yinzers were over the moon about how they finessed the Jets in the draft to land their elite T Broderick Jones, who couldn't start over Dan Moore and was thoroughly mediocre when injuries forced him to start at RT. (turns out the Jets weren't interested in him!)

The Steeler hype train for their draftees is getting out of control. Don't get me started on Joey Porter Jr., who holds/commits illegal contact every other play but the refs are too scared to flag him because his psycho daddy will beat them up if they do. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

6 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

The Steeler hype train for their draftees is getting out of control. Don't get me started on Joey Porter Jr.--

      To be clear, we're not talking about superstars.  We're talking about a team assembling four or more solid starters to replace replacement [hence the name] and marginal level players.  In a tight division in this Age of Parity that can be enough to separate a franchise from the crowd.

Pik Rk-PFFR DraftBz 40Yd  Pittsburgh        College   Pstn Dif  Tall Lbs
            Rk-Rtng
20. 15-74.6  5-88.6 5.01  Troy Fautanu      Washngtn   LT6 -20  6'4" 317
51.  2-74.5  2-85.5 5.20  Zach Frazier      WVirgina   OC2  +4  6'3" 310
84. 13-81.5  8-83.5 4.37  Roman Wilson      Michigan  WR14 -51  6'0" 192
98.  3-89.9  1 85.8 4.43  Payton Wilson     NC State   LB6 -35  6'4" 238
119  1-87.6 31-81.3 5.08  Mason McCormack   S Dakota   OG5 ---  6'5" 316
178 10-78.3 40 80.9 4.88  Logan Lee         Iowa      DT14 -12  6'5" 291
195 -- ---- 48 77.8 4.53  Ryan Watts        Texas     CB29  +6  6'3" 208

      Recently, the Chiefs had a draft even better than Pittsburgh's, so good that geeks had to invent a new grade ("A!") to describe generational bonanzas.  Two Super Bowl wins later we can appreciate the effects of a great haul.  Last year it was Houston (and Detroit).  (The catch is that Pittsburgh lacks a Mahomes/Stroud and Houston's 2023 schedule.)

 

[Armbar]

8 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Last year it was Houston (and Detroit).  (The catch is that Pittsburgh lacks a Mahomes/Stroud and Houston's 2023 schedule.)

Last year, people were calling the Steelers draft an all-time haul. A year later, those players didn’t make much of an impact aside from Porter, who was up and down. I think they’re gonna end up having had a great class, but it’s not like the Steelers draft class from ‘23 made them a great team. Plus, I personally thought their draft this year was solid, but not like…amazing or something.

And to

say they lack a Mahomes/Stroud is an understatement. I know Pickett was bad bad, but I fail to see how this is an acceptable upgrade. They have a lot of problems offensively and have a bottom 5 QB situation in the NFL. Not a recipe for success. They better hope Fields figured out how to read a defense over the last few months, or else I think they’re left with zilch. 

[sparky151]

I'd expect Wilson to start ahead of Fields. But  counting on rookies is risky. Especially on the O-line. Even if Roman Wilson becomes a good slot receiver in time, it's hard to expect that as a rookie. And the Steelers still don't have a legit WR2. 

[roger murdock]

On 5/25/2024 at 9:07 AM, diamondbull424 said:

Beyond that, not to defend Watson the human, but the football player hasn’t had the most normal offseasons the last few years to focus on his football craft. That and Watson was playing injured at points last year and IIRC through their offseason. This is the closest Stefanski will have had to work with his QB from a health and distraction standpoint.

Considering both have question marks surrounding them with Burrow’s wrist injury and how it might react to the NFL physicality and Watson’s off the field issues, I like Watson’s chances of outperforming Burrow in 2024.

Watson was healthy last offseason and had a normal offseason (as normal as its going to get for him). He was also healthy the year before and had 11 extra weeks to digest the playbook and prepare. He's sucked the entire way. He hasn't been good since 2020 and the last playoff game he's  won was prior to the last SB Brady won with the Patriots, for context on how long its been since Watsons done anything meaningful

Both Burrow and Watson are extremely injury prone, but at least Burrow is good when he's healthy. Watson's stunk. He's had like 1.5 good games as a Browns player. 

 

Watson seems checked out. He didnt want to come to Cleveland, we were his last choice among the 5 suitors, and then we offered him the worst contract in NFL history. The man doesnt even care, the fans hate him, and hes rusty. 

 

Maybe everything turns out OK and he plays well, then OK. But theres a very real chance Watson is just a boarderline top 25 QB who provides no leadership and is injury prone. 

 

I would bet good money on Watson being a bottom 12 starter even if things go perfectly for him. He doesn't have incentive to care or try, besides pride, and he certainly does have that. 

[Kiwibrown]

3 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Watson was healthy last offseason and had a normal offseason (as normal as its going to get for him). He was also healthy the year before and had 11 extra weeks to digest the playbook and prepare. He's sucked the entire way. He hasn't been good since 2020 and the last playoff game he's  won was prior to the last SB Brady won with the Patriots, for context on how long its been since Watsons done anything meaningful

Both Burrow and Watson are extremely injury prone, but at least Burrow is good when he's healthy. Watson's stunk. He's had like 1.5 good games as a Browns player. 

 

Watson seems checked out. He didnt want to come to Cleveland, we were his last choice among the 5 suitors, and then we offered him the worst contract in NFL history. The man doesnt even care, the fans hate him, and hes rusty. 

 

Maybe everything turns out OK and he plays well, then OK. But theres a very real chance Watson is just a boarderline top 25 QB who provides no leadership and is injury prone. 

 

I would bet good money on Watson being a bottom 12 starter even if things go perfectly for him. He doesn't have incentive to care or try, besides pride, and he certainly does have that. 

Bleak. 

His jncentive to play well is that it hurts less. 

He has gone through character assination, rightly so, and that weighs heavy on people. 

He is a shadow of himself. 

From a Browns fan perspective hopefully his ego has recovered. 

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Watson was healthy last offseason and had a normal offseason (as normal as its going to get for him). He was also healthy the year before and had 11 extra weeks to digest the playbook and prepare. He's sucked the entire way. He hasn't been good since 2020 and the last playoff game he's  won was prior to the last SB Brady won with the Patriots, for context on how long its been since Watsons done anything meaningful

 

1) Yeah I couldn’t remember when he first got the shoulder injury. Looking it up, it was in Week 3, then again in week one 6, and finally again against the Ravens in Week 9.

But an injury to your throwing shoulder is very relevant with such a small sample size. His best game came in Week 3 prior to the injury, the next best game came in week 6, and then he had a very good game against Baltimore. 

2) 11 weeks to prepare? What do you mean, he literally was barred from practicing for the first 11 weeks. That after being out of football for a full year prior. Not being able to practice, certainly isn’t what I would call being “prepared” for a season.

3) Also the 2023 offseason wasn’t at all normal. Browns fans were still upset and the NFL offseason continued to fixate on him. He’s been much less talked about this offseason as he’s been far less newsworthy this cycle.

He can lay low and just focus more on his craft alone. If he doesn’t get it done this year then I’ll agree with you. But as the other poster said, ego is a thing and for multiple off seasons he was public enemy #1, but now things have died down enough that Rashee Rice, Kelce/Swift, Justin Jefferson contract, etc offer more compelling media narratives than Watson. The impact a normal media offseason has on him mentality could be huge. 

[AngusMcFife]

I still fear Watson. He's 2-0 vs the Ravens since arriving in Cleveland.

[MWil23]

Just now, AngusMcFife said:

I still fear Watson

As do all of us with women we love and value in our lives 

[Armbar]

Ok I thought I was low on Watson until this thread. He’s certainly not good, but he’s not THAT bad. He was also trending up big time before the injury. He’s gonna be solid at worst, with a slight chance to be bad and a glimmer that he could get back to elite. 

[MWil23]

10 hours ago, Armbar said:

Ok I thought I was low on Watson until this thread. He’s certainly not good, but he’s not THAT bad. He was also trending up big time before the injury. He’s gonna be solid at worst, with a slight chance to be bad and a glimmer that he could get back to elite. 

Dude is never healthy and since he’s not healthy he’s not good

[Armbar]

17 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Dude is never healthy and since he’s not healthy he’s not good

He has two excellent games last season, one against the best defense in the NFL. I think the old Watson is in there somewhere, but idk if we get more than glimpses of that. But he looked way better in ‘23-24 than he did in ‘22-23. He didn’t looked washed to me—more like incredibly rusty and uncomfortable with our scheme.

I wouldn’t bet on him returning to elite form, but it’s not like it would be insane for him to do so. I would put money on him being a top half of the league QB, which I feel like 0% of people seem to think he can do. 

[MWil23]

10 minutes ago, Armbar said:

He has two excellent games last season, one against the best defense in the NFL. I think the old Watson is in there somewhere, but idk if we get more than glimpses of that. But he looked way better in ‘23-24 than he did in ‘22-23. He didn’t looked washed to me—more like incredibly rusty and uncomfortable with our scheme.

I wouldn’t bet on him returning to elite form, but it’s not like it would be insane for him to do so. I would put money on him being a top half of the league QB, which I feel like 0% of people seem to think he can do. 

I’m glad you’re optimistic. I’m betting on him missing 1/2 of the season or more, because if you do that annually throughout his career, you’d be winning more than losing on that bet.

I have the Browns winning 7-8 games this year and finishing third or fourth in the division.

[roger murdock]

Watson has been in the league 7 years

Hes played 6 or less games in 4 of those 7 years

The last three seasons he

1. Didn’t play

2. Was worse than Brissett

3. Was worse than Flacco off the couch with no practice

 

His last good year was a major outlier for him statistically and featured him putting up a 135 QB rating in he 4th quarter on a 4 win team that won 2 games against the 2 win Jaguars. That same season Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Russell Wilson, and Derrick Carr finished in the top-11 for passing yards.

 

He had 1 good game last season. He wasn’t good against the Ravens in the win despite the narrative. He was great in the second half and dreadful in the first half, net it was a below average game with 75 Qb rating and an unforced pick six offsetting his one TD pass. We just got lucky the defense played amazing in the second half.