Raider Training Camp 2024

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Good point. The offense is like a race car with bad tires and potential engine failure. 

Really good racecar with a bad driver (QB; AOC or Minshew).

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, Dessie said:

Are saying Minshew is a downgrade on Jimmy G? 

The 2nd point is pure speculation as we could easily have been outbid.

Speaking of Jimmy G., I saw on Twitter (X) that he is struggling and may not even make the Rams' roster.  I'm not surprised.

[NYRaider]

On 8/4/2024 at 6:27 AM, big_palooka said:

Could he outbid that, sure. Could Minnesota counter and outbid them anyway, absolutely. They had a higher draft position and 2 first round picks. Nobody was going to outbid Minnesota for McCarthy. They were so  they moved up a spot.

How is the team not serious about competing? Because 6 QBs went in the first 12 picks and they were on the outside looking in? They landed a guy with all pro potential to help what QBs they have. 

Because we had the worst QB room in the league going into the off-season and still have the worst QB room in the league heading into the season? It's a QB driven league, you're not winning without one.

We could've had Cousins, Fields, Wilson, McCarthy, or Penix but Telesco was too scared to pull the trigger. 

I mean the Chargers sucked for basically his entire tenure as well, dude doesn;t know how to build a winner.

You were pimping Ziegler as well, time to accept this dude sucks too.

[Geezy]

6 hours ago, big_palooka said:

We're all smart enough here to understand the results of one season do not translate to the next. Every season is different, with different scenarios, people, etc. There is always some attrition in areas. 

 

Better overall roster overall without numbers to put us in a hole. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

13 hours ago, Dessie said:

Are saying Minshew is a downgrade on Jimmy G? 

The 2nd point is pure speculation as we could easily have been outbid.

Read the whole sentence and my prior posts on this thread.   They say both last season and this season we have downgraded the QB position had we kept Carr.  Ol noodle arm and AOC now Minchew and AOC are downgrades over Carr.  

Edited August 9 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

11 hours ago, big_palooka said:

They saved a boat load of cash not paying for average. Now they can do what they should have years ago and find a real replacement. Being strapped with mid grade Carr going nowhere with his contract was a far worse situation to be in. 

 

This is speculation as you always say. Or does that only applied when someone says they couldn't have outbid Minnesota? 

 

The best part of these statements from you.... is it's all a set up. You'll complain about his production all season while same time not acknowledging the QBs you blasted being part of that problem.

They saved a boat load of cash not paying for average. Now they can do what they should have years ago and find a real replacement. Being strapped with mid grade Carr going nowhere with his contract was a far worse situation to be in.

What has that "boat load" of cash gotten us?  Last year we paid Jimmy G approximately 25M and incurred a 6M cap hit for cutting Carr.  This year we have 35M in cap space remaining. Keeping Carr would have cost more money but I don't believe anyone can argue Jimmy G, AOC or Minchew are an upgrade.  Now here we are with arguably the strongest overall roster we have had in 25 years and a bottom three QB room to support the roster. Breaking news, good QB's don't grow on trees SMH

Tell me how long it is going to take to find this "real" replacement?  Last season was a complete waste with atrocious QB play all season long and we still finished near the middle of the pack. We may have had a chance this offseason to land a potential franchise QB hut didn't even swing the bat and now we may have the weakest QB room in the entire NFL.  Hey but it's not Carr... SMH

This is speculation as you always say. Or does that only applied when someone says they couldn't have outbid Minnesota? 

How do you know that a 1st and 3rd from us could not have gotten us to 10?  We never tried so we'll never know.  It very easily could have and just because the Vikings had two 1's doesn't in any way imply they would have parted with both of thise picks for JJ.  Like I said in the pervious post that contradicts your terrible take that the Vikings we're all in on JJ, they moved up one spot to grab him, one spot.... and gave up a 4th.  I would hardly call that being all in.  If they would have jumped to 5 to grab him and give up multiple 1's+  that would indicate being all in on a player.  Their GM was smart, let the draft come to him and got good value for a potential franchise QB.  

The best part of these statements from you.... is it's all a set up. You'll complain about his production all season while same time not acknowledging the QBs you blasted being part of that problem.

I have no clue what you're talking about. This makes zero sense to me. 

Edited August 9 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

10 hours ago, Styrian Raider said:

Talks about the lack of logical thinking of everybody else, just to whine about how we could've "easily besten" the offer of the Vikings for JJ McCarthy.

That's right. The Vikings who had two FRP this year and a better Position in the draft.

Absolutely my taste of humour.

So what if they had two 1's?  What on earth make you think they would have offered two 1's to move up one spot for JJ.  

Their GM was smart, patient and saw good value for landing a potential franchise QB by only giving up a 4th.  

If they truly were in love with JJ they would have traded the two 1st's for pick 6 or 7 to ensure they got their guy.  Then I could see you making the point that they loved him and were "all in" but giving up a 4th to move up one spot for him is a pure value play.  

Edited August 9 by Frankie2Gunz

[Styrian Raider]

2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

So what if they had two 1's?  What on earth make you think they would have offered two 1's to move up one spot for JJ.  

Their GM was smart, patient and saw good value for landing a potential franchise QB by only giving up a 4th.  

If they truly were in love with JJ they would have traded the two 1st's for pick 6 or 7 to ensure they got their guy.  Then I could see you making the point that they loved him and were "all in" but giving up a 4th to move up one spot for him is a pure value play.  

Actually I didn't say that the Vikings would've offered two FRPs to move up one spot, but anyhow:

What on earth makes you think, the Vikings wouldn't counter a trade offer from the Raiders?
Do you really think they picked JJ just because he was "easy to get"? They have Darnold, Mullens and Jaren Hall as their QBs - that was an even worse QB room than we had going into the draft.

Furthermore, what on earth makes you think, that the Jets would've accepted a (for the raiders) cheap offer?
They moved down one spot for little, because they knew that they still get "their guy" (Olu Fashanu). A trade further down the board would've had the risk, that someone trades up to snag Fashanu right in front of them. (e.g. the Saints trading with the Broncos)
Well... or the Jets would've moved up again (one spot) to still get their guy, but why then trade in the first place?
 

[Dessie]

5 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Read the whole sentence and my prior posts on this thread.   They say both last season and this season we have downgraded the QB position had we kept Carr.  Ol noodle arm and AOC now Minchew and AOC are downgrades over Carr.  

Your post said we downgraded the qb position last season and this season. Nothing about Carr was mentioned. 

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

We may have had a chance this offseason to land a potential franchise QB

When? Because I recall 6 going in the first 12 picks. And a couple of those were overdrafted by at least a round. 

At what point did they have a real shot to land a franchise QB? 

6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

How do you know that a 1st and 3rd from us could not have gotten us to 10?  We never tried so we'll never know.  It very easily could have and just because the Vikings had two 1's doesn't in any way imply they would have parted with both of thise picks for JJ. 

How do you know it could have, because you seem to think you're right about the subject.

6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I have no clue what you're talking about. This makes zero sense to me.

Of course it doesn't. Pretty easy to see why.

[big_palooka]

13 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Because we had the worst QB room in the league going into the off-season and still have the worst QB room in the league heading into the season? It's a QB driven league, you're not winning without one.

We could've had Cousins, Fields, Wilson, McCarthy, or Penix but Telesco was too scared to pull the trigger. 

I mean the Chargers sucked for basically his entire tenure as well, dude doesn;t know how to build a winner.

You were pimping Ziegler as well, time to accept this dude sucks too.

lol

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

When? Because I recall 6 going in the first 12 picks. And a couple of those were overdrafted by at least a round. 

At what point did they have a real shot to land a franchise QB? 

How do you know it could have, because you seem to think you're right about the subject.

Of course it doesn't. Pretty easy to see why.

When? Because I recall 6 going in the first 12 picks. And a couple of those were overdrafted by at least a round. 

At what point did they have a real shot to land a franchise QB? 

No doubt when we look back on this draft many of these Qb's will be busts/over drafted.  Like I have said before we had a chance to move up to 10 and not give up the house.  We never even tried so we will never know what the cost would have been.  The Vikings GM was smart, patient and let the draft come to him.  Claiming they were "all in" on JJ when they moved up one spot, giving up a 4th is nonsensical.  Like I have said in prior posts you would have a point if the Vikings would have traded up to 6 and given up multiple 1's but they ran the risk of a team drafting him before 10 and did nothing to prevent that.  That was a pure value pick with minimal risk if he busts which would be the complete opposite had they mortgaged the house to move up for him.  Mortgaging the house and heaving him bust is a sure fire way to get canned as a GM but moving up one spot, giving up a 4th is a smart move for a 21 year old potential franchise signal caller. 

You claimed in your prior post that now we can find Carrs "real replacement".  We are now two offseasons removed from Carr and fans are still waiting.  We arguably have had the worst QB room in the NFL the last two years which is what idiotic fans have wanted and exactly what I feared when you move on from Carr with zero plan in place.  So when will this "real replacement" come to save the franchise?  We are all waiting....

At what point did they have a real shot to land a franchise QB? 

The draft.  We never even tried.  We could have attempted to move up to 10 and not mortgage the future or we could have attempted to move up higher.  Now we are stuck with the staches....

Edited August 9 by Frankie2Gunz

[big_palooka]

12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

The draft.  We never even tried.  We could have attempted to move up to 10 and not mortgage the future or we could have attempted to move up higher.  Now we are stuck with the staches....

“We looked into it like I said in the pre-draft press conference,” Telesco said. “We kind of had a plan to ... maybe move up if the opportunity was there. It wasn’t there, kept moving.”

Other teams have to want to trade. You have no idea what the cost would have been. And you're overlooking that the teams in front of them all had needs at QB. Even teams like the Jets who didn't like the Jets and Giants didn't want to move out of the top 10. 

[big_palooka]

18 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You claimed in your prior post that now we can find Carrs "real replacement".  We are now two offseasons removed from Carr and fans are still waiting.  We arguably have had the worst QB room in the NFL the last two years which is what idiotic fans have wanted and exactly what I feared when you move on from Carr with zero plan in place.  So when will this "real replacement" come to save the franchise?  We are all waiting....

We've been waiting since Rich Gannon left. You act like Carr brought something different, he didn't. Maybe another win or 2 but who cares? Carr was an average QB not worth the contract. They were going nowhere with him or without him. At least without him, the emphasis becomes identifying the next QB instead of regurgitating the same mid results season after season. 

 

 

[Jerry]

This current argument going on in this thread is purely based upon speculation.  Crazy.

I think @big_palooka is right though.  Other teams didn't want to trade their pick.  This draft was unlike any previous draft before it, with 6 QBs going in the first 12 picks.  I doubt anyone would trade with us unless we were willing to give up the farm, the house, the dog, etc.  

Also, I agree with @Frankie2Gunz that 2-3 of the top 6 QBs will probably bust or end up being mediocre at best.  I don't think we really lost out in the long run.  Bowers has the potential to be a 5-10x pro bowler for us.  One of the few blue-chip prospects in the entire draft.  

When it comes to our 2024 draft class, I currently regret nothing.