e16bball Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Wouldn’t be “nearing the end of a Trent Williams contract” without him trying to extort new guaranteed money out of his team by refusing to play out the contract he willingly signed. He’s already used up the trusty “team trainers didn’t unilaterally diagnose my rare face tumor and I’m mad at them for it” explanation — one wonders if he’ll try to run with some other dopey explanation to distract from the pure paper chase, or if this time he’ll at least just own it. Hopefully the latter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 13 minutes ago, e16bball said: Wouldn’t be “nearing the end of a Trent Williams contract” without him trying to extort new guaranteed money out of his team by refusing to play out the contract he willingly signed. Good for him, tbh. More players should hold out. If the league doesn't want hold outs, give fully guaranteed deals. If they aren't going to go that, this is the proper recourse for players, particularly those still playing at a high level 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Forge said: Good for him, tbh. More players should hold out. If the league doesn't want hold outs, give fully guaranteed deals. If they aren't going to go that, this is the proper recourse for players, particularly those still playing at a high level If the players want fully guaranteed deals, then they should negotiate for them. Kirk Cousins did it almost a decade ago now. If the players value it, they can do it. But as we both know, they are aware that asking for full guarantees means potentially taking less total money than they could earn in a deal that isn’t fully guaranteed. So what these holdout players really want is to have it both ways — drink up as much cash as they can in the early years of the contract, then extort a new deal out of the team by threatening not to honor said contract once it’s no longer favorable to them. It’s just bad faith, plain and simple, to withhold promised/bargained-for performance in order to force the other party to give you more to do the same thing you already agreed you would do. Edited July 26 by e16bball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Ahh. Another shining moment for Rivera's tenure. He was like whatever the opposite of King Midas would be with us. Literally everything he did sucked. Its almost impossible to be as bad as he was. Pretty incredible really. Hey, you want a future Hall of Fame player at one of the hardest to fill positions...well do you have a 3rd and a 5th round pick I can blow on bad players? Its a deal! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 6 hours ago, e16bball said: If the players want fully guaranteed deals, then they should negotiate for them. Kirk Cousins did it almost a decade ago now. If the players value it, they can do it. But as we both know, they are aware that asking for full guarantees means potentially taking less total money than they could earn in a deal that isn’t fully guaranteed. So what these holdout players really want is to have it both ways — drink up as much cash as they can in the early years of the contract, then extort a new deal out of the team by threatening not to honor said contract once it’s no longer favorable to them. It’s just bad faith, plain and simple, to withhold promised/bargained-for performance in order to force the other party to give you more to do the same thing you already agreed you would do. Of course they want it both ways. This is their job. Their livelihood. They should get every dollar they can while they are worth it. If you think the league and the teams don't do that, I don't know what to say. If Trent blows out a knee at 36, he potentially leaves 40+ million dollars on the table. It's wild to me to begrudge anyone for going to get what they think they are worth. The league gets it both ways...they get to pay for the players at their peak performance and throw them out when they get hurt, or slip a little or whatever. So yeah, players should exert what leverage they can when they can. If you're not doing that in your own life, you're doing a disservice to yourself and your family. Kirk signed for 3 years fully guaranteed. That's fine and 3 years guaranteed isn't atypical. 5-6 year deals are going to have 3 years guaranteed, especially for QBs. The only person to get the fully guaranteed long term deal (5 year) is Watson, and that's because lolBrowns (sorry @MWil23). We saw the reports about how upset the league was by that. Now, you could argue that these players shouldn't sign more than 3 year deals if they want more money in year 4, and I get where you're coming from in that regard. And we may be seeing some players try and take that tack (Deebo signed for three years, for example). But here's the dirty little secret....I think teams would prefer to sign these guys to 5-6 years deals and have them hold out in year 4 when their 3 year guarantees run out. Its a structure that works for both sides, but especially for the team. As a niners fan, I certainly would rather have trent locked up and holding out right now where the team still has leverage and control and can take their time as opposed to just having him hit the open market. I don't want him signing 2-3 year fully guaranteed deals. This is like having a team option. As a team, I can cut him. Give him the raise. Trade him. Have him sit. But at least I still have those options instead of having to pay straight up open market value against other squads and having minimal leverage. If the league really wanted to resolve this situation, they could really hammer it hard in cba negotiations but something tells me we won't see them get much harder on the situation than they are right now. If they get much harder on this, agents will start taking stronger stances in signing 2-3 year deals. Tory Dandy has done this a little bit with his players. But nobody really wants this. Players aren't going to beat the machinery of the NFL owners and league. They just aren't. They are never going to get fully guaranteed deals like the NBA, NHL or MLB. So it's easy for us to say, "well, just go get your fully guaranteed deal for 5 years and don't settle for less". This can't be done in any way that makes sense for the player. The Lamar Jackson saga just straight up told us that, to be honest. I'm not going to ask the players to accomplish the impossible for some of these asks and I'm not going to root for the billionaires and a league that really doesn't care just because they can flex their might on the players and get them to crater as a union on certain demands which makes them "honest" on the contract 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) On 7/25/2024 at 4:54 AM, El Ramster said: He knows they won’t win. Even if they get they’re they’ll choke. It’s his last pay day and it’s well deserved. After what he went thru. He’s the most valuable piece in that offense/Oline besides Purdy. We didn't get to play the Bengals in the big dance lol. Go worry about your depth at corner for your squad. Edited July 26 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 hours ago, Forge said: The only person to get the fully guaranteed long term deal (5 year) is Watson, and that's because lolBrowns (sorry @MWil23). Thankfully their dead cap is catastrophic, they gave up 3 first round picks and change, they have no outs at all until 2027 unless they want to convert all of it to an up front signing bonus and pay him to leave, which still doesn’t solve the dead cap, he’s been suspended/hurt for two years, and that doesn’t even scratch the surface of the off the field Armageddon situation that has caused me and many others to be robbed of whatever little joy was left from a Sunday afternoon frustrating distraction from life. ….what were we taking about again? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 In before the cancer scare as an excuse for the holdout instead of money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 13 hours ago, e16bball said: Wouldn’t be “nearing the end of a Trent Williams contract” without him trying to extort new guaranteed money out of his team by refusing to play out the contract he willingly signed. He’s already used up the trusty “team trainers didn’t unilaterally diagnose my rare face tumor and I’m mad at them for it” explanation — one wonders if he’ll try to run with some other dopey explanation to distract from the pure paper chase, or if this time he’ll at least just own it. Hopefully the latter. Had made over $150m in NFL salary and is still a top 5 paid player at the position if I recall the numbers I saw recently. Not at all like a kid who was drafted in the mid-rounds and still on his entry level deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 42 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Had made over $150m in NFL salary and is still a top 5 paid player at the position if I recall the numbers I saw recently. Not at all like a kid who was drafted in the mid-rounds and still on his entry level deal. The York family is worth north of $8B, so even after $150MM in earnings Trent Williams is far closer to the mid-round entry level deal kid than he is to the billionaire family who nickels and dimes their players on guaranteed/non-guaranteed deals. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 7 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The York family is worth north of $8B, so even after $150MM in earnings Trent Williams is far closer to the mid-round entry level deal kid than he is to the billionaire family who nickels and dimes their players on guaranteed/non-guaranteed deals. I mean, this is basically the case for anyone who has a job with a major corporation. You aren’t going to make what the CEO is making or whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 23 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The York family is worth north of $8B, so even after $150MM in earnings Trent Williams is far closer to the mid-round entry level deal kid than he is to the billionaire family who nickels and dimes their players on guaranteed/non-guaranteed deals. While I do agree with you, it’s hard for me to take sides in this thing because even an entry-level NFL deal like Williams first had would be life-changing money for me and I’d never have to work again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 7/25/2024 at 5:52 PM, Forge said: Good for him, tbh. More players should hold out. If the league doesn't want hold outs, give fully guaranteed deals. If they aren't going to go that, this is the proper recourse for players, particularly those still playing at a high level Fully guaranteed deals, lol. The league would be lazy af. I think you underestimate how mature NFL players are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 4 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Fully guaranteed deals, lol. The league would be lazy af. I think you underestimate how mature NFL players are. The league would be lazy but I underestimate how mature players are? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 4 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Fully guaranteed deals, lol. The league would be lazy af. I think you underestimate how mature NFL players are. Fully guaranteed deals haven’t stopped other players from doing well in other leagues. Sure, there are guys who see their play plateau, or decline……in the rare instance, you have Anthony Rendon who doesn’t even seem to like baseball. But, if you had done your research as a front office, the red flags were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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