5 up, 5 down

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Our receivers were doodoo. Watson wasn’t great, but on the catchable balls, they aren’t catching them. Not sure what’s going on there. 

They looked worse in the second half, after the rain started.

Of course Amari has looked like arse for 8 quarters thus far this season, but the rain didn’t help.

Too bad Bell got hurt. I know folks love to hate him, but he catches the damned ball.

[DawgX]

32 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Yeah nothing to improve on at all. We won so make zero adjustments going into next week. 

Did I say that? No. But to say he was out coached is simply wrong.

But we're used to your boomer takes, scrabble.

[sdrawkcab321]

6 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Did I say that? No. But to say he was out coached is simply wrong.

But we're used to your boomer takes, scrabble.

Penalties are a coaching issue. And we had a ton of them. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, sdrawkcab321 said:

Penalties are a coaching issue. And we had a ton of them. 

I disagree tbh.

Coaches are responsible for schemes, personnel, etc., but you can’t blame them when grown *** men do stuff they know there not supposed to do.  It’s not Bubba’s fault Hopkins didn’t pay attention to where he was, it’s not Schwartz’s fault Myles jumps offsides twice a week.  It’s not Stefanski’s fault the OL is holding, etc.

Players own that imo.

[DawgX]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I disagree tbh.

Coaches are responsible for schemes, personnel, etc., but you can’t blame them when grown *** men do stuff they know there not supposed to do.  It’s not Bubba’s fault Hopkins didn’t pay attention to where he was, it’s not Schwartz’s fault Myles jumps offsides twice a week.  It’s not Stefanski’s fault the OL is holding, etc.

Players own that imo.

Agreed for the most part. I think coaching is at least partially responsible for illegal formation penalties, which we've had a ton of. But I think that's more common at the start of the season, especially when installing a new scheme.

And I obviously love Garrett, but dude jumps offsides a maddening amount. But his good plays obviously outweighs his bad ones.

[dawgdish]

UP:

Myles & the d-line

Schwartz & the D in general

Special teams, especially Bojo

Jeudy showing some signs of life

A win is a win

 

DOWN:

Penalties

2nd half gameplan

O-line missing the heck out of Bill Callahan

Cooper looks like trash

Just noticed the mod in the Bucs forum locked that epic Baker thread

 

 

 

[Bonanza23]

Okay here goes, completely unbiased version:

1. Watson was actually pretty good. He’s kicking off rust. Last week was garbage. This week was an improvement. He pretty literally curb stomped Jacksonville momentum. 
 

2. The d line.  What an ending. 
 

3. Stefanski’s playcalling was brilliant until dip****s couldn’t comprehend. 
 

4.  Mr Juedy was pretty danged good. He and Watson saved the day. 

5. the punter and the kicker. Somehow makes me not miss Cade York. 
 

…

Down:

The freaking penalties. Geez come on boys play like you care. 
 

2. The oline. Holy crap we’re the garbage. 
 

3. the drops by the wrs. What the heck.

4. not calling holding on Garrett. This has to end. 
 

5. mice

[Here'sJim]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Agreed for the most part. I think coaching is at least partially responsible for illegal formation penalties, which we've had a ton of. But I think that's more common at the start of the season, especially when installing a new scheme.

And I obviously love Garrett, but dude jumps offsides a maddening amount. But his good plays obviously outweighs his bad ones.

Yep. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm fine with the offsides. He's clearly taking a risk by trying to jump the snap count, and the payoff is usually worth it. He's already had two strip fumbles this season so far. I'll gladly accept 10-15 yards of penalties each game if he can keep it up.

[DaWg_LB.]

I'm going to take this from an Outside the Box Thought Process.....

Up's\

1. TEAM Victory....the Offense finally looked like it was week 1...last week we looked like we were in the 4th Pre Season game....The offense chewed clock, Money Balled the rushing game (28 Carries 130 yards 1 TD as a team...that's an avg. Nick Chubb Day). Then the plays made by Special Teams...the Kickoff Fumble that was called back was a GAME CHANGER....this game SHOULD not have been this close....

2. Unsung Hero's...draft picks that stepped up, David Bell (Before he got hurt...3rd), Dawand Jones (4th) was a Rock at RT (cleaned up the penalties from last week), Alex Wright (3rd) made the Biggest play of the game, Sam Kamera got time and played well (UDFA), Ronnie Hickman another UDFA, had a NICE game filling in for Calf Thornhill. Zack Zenter (3rd) and Nick Harris (5th) did excellent jobs helping in the run game with TE's depleted.

3. The Body language on the Sideline, Folks have had Joe Thomas answering questions about how folks felt about Watson.....I saw several times on the Side Line, leadership and comradery....I hope the Media Makes JUST a big a deal out of that this week, as they did last week 

4. For #4 I'm going with Coaches....Jim Schwartz stayed in the pocket, even when the Jags began to Rally, he mixed the lines up with subs superbly, he stayed aggressive and didn't get scared, he was Right Place, Right Time today. Two of Jim's Lt.'s which I truly believe in the next coaching cycle we will loose to DC jobs, our CB's coach Brandon Lynch, former player, J.S. retained him for a reason,  he just keeps coaching up our DB's, Cam Mitchell played very well today..and before the Rookie got hurt our 7th rounder made the team and I am looking forward to seeing him play, the DB's had a GREAT day today...even Newsome played a solid game outside of that one long pass he gave up..and that was a Hell of a Throw and Catch. Ephram Banda, was a rudy like College player, and trained at some big time programs, including being Co-DC at the U Miami, and DC at Utah St., he's taken UDFA's and turned them into solid NFL Players, and has Delpit playing at Pro Bowl Level....Notice our DB's were not flagged but once I believe....Hats off to the DB's, we will get 3rd round picks for these guys. And Last but not least Bubba Ventrone, with some shaky special teams play last week, he had them boys chomping at the BIT this week...Punt team may have set the game up to be sealed...and the Ref's call that BS call on the Kickoff team, would have had a TO in FG range, and they disrupted a FG attempt that doinked....Bubba Ventrone will be the next "John Harbaugh" style ST coach that gets a HC Job somewhere...

5. Mr. Brightside observation, We played a clean game as far as TO's were concerned. With the Penalties and questionable call we could not have withstood a single TO. We also had 3 that slipped through our fingers....Denzel Ward Damn near picked one...they didn't throw at him the REST of the DAY. Emmerson had the ball in his gut and lost it on the Roll...I mean even the MLB had a shot at one, but that would have been a play of the year type INT. When the TO's start being made (and the BARLEY missed sack that turned into a long Lawerence scramble is made) this Defense is going to be SB caliber IF we can stay healthy. 

 

Downs

1. Receiving Corps a Whole.....Judy had a good game, but had a bad Drop, Elija Moore had some good catches...had 1-2 drops, depending who you ask, Amari Cooper had his WORST day as a Brown...I counted 3 Drops, including one that would have been a "+25 Explosive Play" when he was Schemed open and Watson hit him in stride, including the Rb's I counted 6-7 drops total.

2 Penalties, OK we had some penalties that were bad, but the Ref's were ABOUT TO LET THEM ONSIDES KICK A FREE KICK POST SAFETY....these Refs were NOT good.....You mean to tell me that Jax does not have a SINGLE SOLITARY holding penalty vs the  #1 Defense and reigning defensive player of the year....GTFO HERE!!! The refs were TERRIBLE and absolutely Called the game with a home town lean....getting the "Benefit of the doubt TWICE on Delay of Game calls that were CLEAR 

3. For #3, I'm going with 3 Coaches....Chad Oshea, our WR's were not Ready to play today except for Bell and Judy. Andy Dickerson, clean up the Oline play, and lean on your asst. Oline Coach, the cat From Philly is a Good Coach. Lastly Stephanski, you had a Master class going most of the day, and made a great decision to play to the hot parts of the team in crunch time, but some of that play calling in the 4th was VERY Questionable...calling that playaction on 3rd down in the 4th when we could have run 40 more seconds off the clock..he almost PISSED the game way with that call..... 

4. Health....we have guys that should be healthy, healing slower than expected (Both OT's and RB Hynes), Thornhill is already hurt with the Calf thing AGAIN, Myles is nicked up, our 7th rounder who I am looking forward to seeing is on IR, and it looks like Bell and Strong may have sustained some ugly injuries. We really need to be healthy to reach our full potential...well just like any other team.

5. Expectations for the season, BUT in a GOOD way....with some of the health issues, our week one performance, all the distractions with Watson and Hall, I believe it will have this coaching staff and team FOCUSED on a one week at a time mantra that Served us so well last season...but the that talk has been absent this year so far. If we focus on one week at a time, we will avoid slip games like the Giants coming to town this week...if we were sitting at 2-0, I think the Giants would be a Trap game...there wont be ANY trap games this year I feel...

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 hours ago, Here'sJim said:

Yep. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm fine with the offsides. He's clearly taking a risk by trying to jump the snap count, and the payoff is usually worth it. He's already had two strip fumbles this season so far. I'll gladly accept 10-15 yards of penalties each game if he can keep it up.

I get the sentiment, but is it really necessary?  
 

Last season Myles was offsides 11 times.
 

For comparison:

Watt 2

Hendrickson 3

Micah 5

Burns 2

Highsmith 2

Nick Bosa 6

Will Anderson 1

Chris Jones 3

Aaron Donald 2

Hutchinson 1….

Myles could cut his penalties in half and still be near the top of that list. I can live with an occasional penalty, sure, but it’s absolutely egregious with how often he jumps.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

calling that playaction on 3rd down in the 4th when we could have run 40 more seconds off the clock..he almost PISSED the game way with that call..... 

this is one I put squarely on the QB. Watson is 29 years old and in his 8th season in the league.  He’s not a high school freshman pressed into action after the starter got hurt. He’s got to know the situation and understand that he can either keep it and try to run for the first down, throw to an open receiver or just eat the sack.

That should have been a very easy decision to just fall down, take the sack and run another 40 seconds off the clock.

Isn’t that type of experience and such part of what you’re paying him 46 million a year for?  If you can’t trust him to make a simple decision like that…

[Here'sJim]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get the sentiment, but is it really necessary?  
 

Last season Myles was offsides 11 times.
 

For comparison:

Watt 2

Hendrickson 3

Micah 5

Burns 2

Highsmith 2

Nick Bosa 6

Will Anderson 1

Chris Jones 3

Aaron Donald 2

Hutchinson 1….

Myles could cut his penalties in half and still be near the top of that list. I can live with an occasional penalty, sure, but it’s absolutely egregious with how often he jumps.

I don't know if it's absolutely necessary, but I don't think you can rule out that it's completely unnecessary either. We don't know what his sack numbers would look like if he stopped. Also, how many strip sacks does Myles have compared to the rest of the league? Maybe jumping the snap helps in that regard because it gives him a better path to the qb? What about opposing tackle false start penalties related to trying to deal with him jumping the snap? 

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:33 AM by Here'sJim

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, Here'sJim said:

I don't know if it's absolutely necessary, but I don't think you can rule out that it's completely unnecessary either. We don't know what his sack numbers would look like if he stopped.
 

I mean, you don’t get a sack when you jump offsides…

21 minutes ago, Here'sJim said:

Also, how many strip sacks does Myles have compared to the rest of the league?
 

Strip sacks specifically?  Not sure. 
 

Forced fumbles in general in 2023?
 

2 less than Chubb who had one offsides penalty. Less than Mack, the same as Watt.  One more than Hendrickson, Hutchinson, Thibodeaux, Sweat…

It’s definitely not twice as often as the next guy like the penalties are.

21 minutes ago, Here'sJim said:

Maybe jumping the snap helps in that regard because it gives him a better path to the qb? What about opposing tackle false start penalties related to trying to deal with him jumping the snap? 

 

 

Again, no one plans for him jumping offsides because it doesn’t matter.  It’s 5 free yards or a free play.

And I’m sure you’re saying he’s trying to time the snap, not jump offsides, and you’d be right. He’s also not unique in that effort, literally every DL does this.

He’s a fantastic player undoubtedly, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look at his play and acknowledge what is really his one concerning issue at this point and hope that he can clean that up. Especially when it’s so far outside of the norm.

[Here'sJim]

52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, you don’t get a sack when you jump offsides…

I would argue that if stopped timing the snap completely, he would do worse overall. Less penalities but also worse good stats. I guess you could argue that he should just time it better, but I have a response to that below.

52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Strip sacks specifically?  Not sure. 
 

Forced fumbles in general in 2023?
 

2 less than Chubb who had one offsides penalty. Less than Mack, the same as Watt.  One more than Hendrickson, Hutchinson, Thibodeaux, Sweat…

It’s definitely not twice as often as the next guy like the penalties are.

Thanks for looking that up. I guess my general point that I was trying to come up with is that there are a lot of stats related to being a good pass rusher. I assume Myles is better than most of those guys in terms of stats/game impact overall, and him timing the snap is a big reason for that.

52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Again, no one plans for him jumping offsides because it doesn’t matter.  It’s 5 free yards or a free play.

It can make a tackle jumpy if he feels he can't get back quick enough. Maybe you are right though and it doesn't matter though.

52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And I’m sure you’re saying he’s trying to time the snap, not jump offsides, and you’d be right. He’s also not unique in that effort, literally every DL does this.

He’s a fantastic player undoubtedly, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look at his play and acknowledge what is really his one concerning issue at this point and hope that he can clean that up. Especially when it’s so far outside of the norm.

Our biggest source of disagreement is going to be whether every defensive lineman times the snap. I would argue most lineman are more reactionary instead.

Think about it. Why do you think Myles Garrett gets more offsides penalties? He's guessing when the snap is going to happen instead of reacting to visual cues. Maybe he could do a better job of guessing, but he's clearly going to have a better start than most ends when he gets it right. I don't know if that translates to more pressures or sacks or what, but he's the defensive player of the year for a reason. Even amongst the top of the league, his production is consistently better.

Edited Monday at 12:46 PM by Here'sJim

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Here'sJim said:

I would argue that if stopped timing the snap completely, he would do worse overall. Less penalities but also worse good stats. I guess you could argue that he should just time it better, but I have a response to that below.

Thanks for looking that up. I guess my general point that I was trying to come up with is that there are a lot of stats related to being a good pass rusher. I assume Myles is better than most of those guys in terms of stats/game impact overall, and him timing the snap is a big reason for that.

It can make a tackle jumpy if he feels he can't get back quick enough. Maybe you are right though and it doesn't matter though.

Our biggest source of disagreement is going to be whether every defensive lineman times the snap. I would argue most lineman are more reactionary instead.

Think about it. Why do you think Myles Garrett gets more offsides penalties? He's guessing when the snap is going to happen instead of reacting to visual cues. Maybe he could do a better job of guessing, but he's clearly going to have a better start than most ends when he gets it right. I don't know if that translates to more pressures or sacks or what, but he's the defensive player of the year for a reason. Even amongst the top of the league, his production is consistently better.

Is his production that much better?  Sack wise, no. He was tied for 7th last season. We already discussed FF.

DPOY?  That’s fantastic.  Watt has won that, so has Donald, Bosa and Mack.  Parsons is probably due before long.

I’m not trying to crap on the guy, he’s great, probably the single most difficult player in the league to block.  I don’t think that has anything to do with him needing to get a jump early to get any advantage and cleaning those mental errors up only makes him that much better.