Broncofan Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I agree it's stupid to take Rosen off the board, the only reason to do so would be medical. As UK and BroncoFan talked about the other day, his history of concussions and his slight body frame make him a bit of a risk. But I don't think this portends that Elway is looking for only QBs in the Brock/Paxton mold. Even then, in a system run by Bill Musgrave, a pocket passer is protected a great deal. Carr's 2016 time-to-making-throw was elite in its brevity, top-3 IIRC. Multiple formations, quick reads, WCO-style pass with power run hybrid, and spread concepts mixed in - which Rosen would love and thrive in. Think of all the big injuries QB's get nowadays - almost all of them are when the QB leaves the pocket (A-Rod scrambles & breaks clavicle, Cam scrambles and gets shoulder & concussions, Wilson scrambles & gets knee hurt). There still isn't zero risk, especially if our OL isn't better in pass pro, but a pocket passer actually has the most protection to avoid big injury (and even though Carr broke his leg in the pocket in 2016, that was a real indictment of that terrible field in OAK, it should have been a simple sack, but the cleat caught, and the leg couldn't give with the LB's weight). It's why guys like Philip Rivers and Eli Manning have been around forever (yes they have to know when to get rid of the ball too, but being in the pocket certainly keeps the hits down). By itself, the injury risk with Rosen, unless we're missing other key info, wouldn't be enough to take a guy off a board completely IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, Broncofan said: The disconnect with ranking Mayfield on a top 5 list and ignoring behind-the-scenes issues and then taking Rosen off for behind-the-scenes concerns, if Klis & Allbright are to be believed...well, you couldn't find a better example of cognitive dissonance and confirmatory bias. Rosen's issues have never translated to on-the-field distractions or incidents. His comments are on the system, and are 100 percent spot-on. It's not popular with the establishment, but it's absolutely correct. Mora's endorsement of Darnold hurts Rosen from going as the top QB, but to take him off lists is just crazy - and keep in mind Mora said that specifically about CLE going with Darnold (so the conspiracy theorists were wondering if he was trying to manipulate Rosen away from CLE). This isn't a guy with a drug problem. This isn't a guy who's had an issue with violence. This isn't a guy who's quit on a team. Again, the injury angle is legit - but it's clearly not been the sole reason he's falling as hard as being reported. Man, I hope it's smokescreen. Given we drafted guys who've been caught with drugs (I could care less about weed, but let's face it, it's stupid that the players can't stay away, if that's a rule to keep playing, you follow it), and guys who've had criminal charges with violence (we didn't know about it at the time, so not throwing stones at our FO there), unless there's a more damning problem that comes to light, Rosen's off-the-field concerns are pretty much non-issues. It's more a narrative being fed. As much as I have concerns with Mayfield, I'm not willing to cross him off my board altogether. If it's true that we're doing that with Rosen....man. Albright mentioned in his comment that he wouldn’t get into it publicly, but there are issues with Rosen that are only known within the NFL circle. Again, could be medical. Could be personality. Hell, could be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Just now, germ-x said: Albright mentioned in his comment that he wouldn’t get into it publicly, but there are issues with Rosen that are only known within the NFL circle. Again, could be medical. Could be personality. Hell, could be anything. That's fine, if there is more. But as we've found out with cases like ARod, or if we want to go waaaaaaay back, Marino, guys fall for narrative-led reasons. I hope if there's a fall, it's for more than we've heard, because on that count, it's not nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 46 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I agree it's stupid to take Rosen off the board, the only reason to do so would be medical. As UK and BroncoFan talked about the other day, his history of concussions and his slight body frame make him a bit of a risk. But I don't think this portends that Elway is looking for only QBs in the Brock/Paxton mold. Actually, I don't think he's looking for QB's of any mold with our 1st pick. Just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 What do you guys think about the noise of Mayfield to the Browns at No. 1? Smokescreen or legit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Actually, I don't think he's looking for QB's of any mold with our 1st pick. Just an opinion. I disagree. I don't think we are guaranteed to take a QB at No. 5 but they have invested WAY too much time in evaluating all of the top four QBs for it be just a smokescreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I disagree. I don't think we are guaranteed to take a QB at No. 5 but they have invested WAY too much time in evaluating all of the top four QBs for it be just a smokescreen. Maybe, but this may be his swan song if he blows it with another 1st rd QB. Huge career risk there and with serious red flags hanging off every top QB, not a risk I'd take. This isn't a just a swing and miss like with Paxton. This would be blowing it at #5 with a chance at a HOF possible player at another position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Maybe, but this may be his swan song if he blows it with another 1st rd QB. Huge career risk there and with serious red flags hanging off every top QB, not a risk I'd take. This isn't a just a swing and miss like with Paxton. This would be blowing it at #5 with a chance at a HOF possible player at another position. The other side of that coin is he opts to play it safe and take one of the position players at No. 5 or trade back and accumulate additional picks to stack the roster. The legacy risk there is the QB or QBs he passes on end up long-term franchise QBs or even Hall of Famers, his legacy is tied to passing on him and, even if, say, Quenton Nelson ends up in the HOF, if we don't win a Super Bowl the narrative will be, "Elway had a chance to get (QB) but passed on him for (position player), we should have taken the HOF QB." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 21 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: What do you guys think about the noise of Mayfield to the Browns at No. 1? Smokescreen or legit? Mayfield Allen and Darnold all linked this week at 1.1. I say it’s Dorsey realizing he’s fine with either Darnold or Allen and trying to get Jets (who love Mayfield) and G-men to bite on a trade with 1.2 / 1.3. Only reason Mayfield being tossed out now is that’s who the Jets love (apparently). CLE can only move back to 1.2 or 1.3 (if Jets take Mayfield 1.1) to guarantee Allen/Darnold. Allen and Darnold fit the Dorsey QB profile. Hard to see Mayfield go there. Haslem would have to be the reason if that happened. No bites I’d say Darnold 1.1 still the safe call. Allen would be something else it would create the most trade talk activity the next 40-60 minutes on Draft Night lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: What do you guys think about the noise of Mayfield to the Browns at No. 1? Smokescreen or legit? I think Dorsey is looking for rats. So he is releasing info to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Mayfield Allen and Darnold all linked this week at 1.1. I say it’s Dorsey realizing he’s fine with either Darnold or Allen and trying to get Jets (who love Mayfield) and G-men to bite on a trade with 1.2 / 1.3. Only reason Mayfield being tossed out now is that’s who the Jets love (apparently). CLE can only move back to 1.2 or 1.3 (if Jets take Mayfield 1.1) to guarantee Allen/Darnold. Allen and Darnold fit the Dorsey QB profile. Hard to see Mayfield go there. Haslem would have to be the reason if that happened. No bites I’d say Darnold 1.1 still the safe call. Allen would be something else it would create the most trade talk activity the next 40-60 minutes on Draft Night lol. There is a precedence there, Haslem was the one responsible for the Manziel pick a few years ago. But I think Dorsey is a stronger GM than whoever it was then (the name escapes me at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: The other side of that coin is he opts to play it safe and take one of the position players at No. 5 or trade back and accumulate additional picks to stack the roster. The legacy risk there is the QB or QBs he passes on end up long-term franchise QBs or even Hall of Famers, his legacy is tied to passing on him and, even if, say, Quenton Nelson ends up in the HOF, if we don't win a Super Bowl the narrative will be, "Elway had a chance to get (QB) but passed on him for (position player), we should have taken the HOF QB." So, weighing the risks, I think he's probably safe with nelson. Easy to see nelson being a perennial All Pro. I can't quite picture too many pro bowls for the QB's on the list. Wouldn't surprise me if when their careers are over QN has more pro bowls than the top 4 QB's combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: There is a precedence there, Haslem was the one responsible for the Manziel pick a few years ago. But I think Dorsey is a stronger GM than whoever it was then (the name escapes me at the moment). Ray Farmer. Whose name should be forgotten lol. The other possibility is that GM Dorsey just loves to troll Twitter followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 For what it's worth, Klis has us taking Mayfield in the annual LA Times beat writers mock. The picks go Allen, Barkley, Darnold, Chubb and then Mayfield. The mock does not project trades. I am going to be done with this team if they draft Mayfield. I mean I could not imagine a worst possible choice. Not only are there a litany of very valid concerns about his ability as a NFL QB, he would cause problems in the locker room and create a media circus around the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Just now, AnAngryAmerican said: For what it's worth, Klis has us taking Mayfield in the annual LA Times beat writers mock. The picks go Allen, Barkley, Darnold, Chubb and then Mayfield. The mock does not project trades. I am going to be done with this team if they draft Mayfield. I mean I could not imagine a worst possible choice. Not only are there a litany of very valid concerns about his ability as a NFL QB, he would cause problems in the locker room and create a media circus around the team. See ya buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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