ProFootballFocus Top 5/Bottom 5 at every position for 2017

[BlaqOptic]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

is this list available to non subscribers?

Where did the following place:

dupree

pouncey

JuJu

Boz

VW

Gilbert

As someone else said, if you go to a player's PFF page you can see their grade and overall rank. If you go to the Steelers page on PFF you can see everyone on the roster's grade by clicking their names.

[KC_Guy]

Well, interesting if you believe in stats ... created by some folks interpretating stats their way, and creating new ones where they see fit ... making some (good) money out of it. It takes some effort to be regarded as a reference to judge players (which PFF is not for me).

There are so many interrelated intangibles in football that you just can't cover with stats ... playcall, game situation, execution of the next man ...

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

As someone else said, if you go to a player's PFF page you can see their grade and overall rank. If you go to the Steelers page on PFF you can see everyone on the roster's grade by clicking their names.

Thank you for the link or idea to try the link.

Pouncey 58.5 (20th Centre )

dupree  50.4 (99th Edge)

Hilton 84 (#25 CB )

Boz - no numbers other than his age, and we could have an elite kicker for another decade.

Gilbert 82.5 (#9 OT)

VW 70.8  (#44 LB)

Tuitt 87 (#15 DI)

 

That is a good site with what appears to be a decent rating system. I know people will disagree with PFF, but I  agree about the above ratings mostly. Pouncey is overrated and dupree was almost not rated and if he doesn't make serious improvements, he might be another Jarvis in the making. 

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

dupree  50.4 (99th Edge)

I could be wrong because I don't follow that site or take anything they say seriously but I don't think "99th" means the 99th worst edge rusher in the league. I think that means the 99th ranked player in league by their metric system, regardless of position. I could be wrong about that......atleast I HOPE so anyhow.

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

dupree was almost not rated and if he doesn't make serious improvements, he might be another Jarvis in the making. 

Comparing him to Jones...ouch! That's pretty harsh. Especially considering Jones  never registered more than 5 pass pressures(discounting coverage pressure or sacks) in 14 games in any given season(4 in 2014 and only 5 in 2015) and Dupree put up 25.5 this year in just 14 games --13 if you wanna count his early absence for injury game. Not too mention that Duprree is only 24 years old and not 26, 27 like Jones was. 

Dupree needs to work on his ability to anticipate the play call and learn to stay in his gap assignments on run plays. But despite that bs PFF site or the "sack" numbers say he wasn't that bad at all this year in rushing the QB(his primary job given his scout reports) finishing with 25.5 good for 15th among all LBers(IIRC) including those(Melvin) that play in a hybrid system and not including those that play left side exclusively.

Those 25.5 pass pressures didn't come from just one or two inflated games either. The consistency was also there in comparison to his contemporaries at his position as well (depending on what your expecting out of him anyhow - he's not Von Miller, we know that) as he only had 1 game(week 3 against the Bears) where registered no QB pressures. The rest wasn't bad though.

Week 01 @Browns : 0 (W) - DID NOT PLAY
Week 02 Vikings : 4 (W) 
Week 03 @Bears  : 0 (L)
Week 04 @Ravens : 1.5 (W)
Week 05 Jaguars : 3 (L)
Week 06 @Chiefs : 1 (W)
Week 07 Bengals : 2 (W)
Week 08 @Lions  : 3.5 (W)
Week 10 @Colts  : 1 (W)
Week 11 Titans  : 
Week 12 Packers : 2
Week 13 @Bengals: 1.5
Week 14 Ravens  : 2.5
Week 15 Patriots: 1
Week 16 @Texans : 1.5
Week 17 Browns  : 0 - DID NOT PLAY

--------------------

Now, you could make an argument that Cam being on the other side has helped him alot in this regard but what shouldn't go unnoticed is that even I expected his numbers to drop tremendously after Shazier(who covers his side) got hurt but that hasn't happened yet. That has to account for something.

I think you need to lower the expectations and remember that he's only 24 years old. Not 27 or 28. He still has alot of time to improve. 

[3rivers]

5 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I could be wrong because I don't follow that site or take anything they say seriously but I don't think "99th" means the 99th worst edge rusher in the league. I think that means the 99th ranked player in league by their metric system, regardless of position. I could be wrong about that......atleast I HOPE so anyhow.

Comparing him to Jones...ouch! That's pretty harsh. Especially considering Jones  never registered more than 5 pass pressures(discounting coverage pressure or sacks) in 14 games in any given season(4 in 2014 and only 5 in 2015) and Dupree put up 25.5 this year in just 14 games --13 if you wanna count his early absence for injury game. Not too mention that Duprree is only 24 years old and not 26, 27 like Jones was. 

Dupree needs to work on his ability to anticipate the play call and learn to stay in his gap assignments on run plays. But despite that bs PFF site or the "sack" numbers say he wasn't that bad at all this year in rushing the QB(his primary job given his scout reports) finishing with 25.5 good for 15th among all LBers(IIRC) including those(Melvin) that play in a hybrid system and not including those that play left side exclusively.

Those 25.5 pass pressures didn't come from just one or two inflated games either. The consistency was also there in comparison to his contemporaries at his position as well (depending on what your expecting out of him anyhow - he's not Von Miller, we know that) as he only had 1 game(week 3 against the Bears) where registered no QB pressures. The rest wasn't bad though.

Week 01 @Browns : 0 (W) - DID NOT PLAY
Week 02 Vikings : 4 (W) 
Week 03 @Bears  : 0 (L)
Week 04 @Ravens : 1.5 (W)
Week 05 Jaguars : 3 (L)
Week 06 @Chiefs : 1 (W)
Week 07 Bengals : 2 (W)
Week 08 @Lions  : 3.5 (W)
Week 10 @Colts  : 1 (W)
Week 11 Titans  : 
Week 12 Packers : 2
Week 13 @Bengals: 1.5
Week 14 Ravens  : 2.5
Week 15 Patriots: 1
Week 16 @Texans : 1.5
Week 17 Browns  : 0 - DID NOT PLAY

--------------------

Now, you could make an argument that Cam being on the other side has helped him alot in this regard but what shouldn't go unnoticed is that even I expected his numbers to drop tremendously after Shazier(who covers his side) got hurt but that hasn't happened yet. That has to account for something.

I think you need to lower the expectations and remember that he's only 24 years old. Not 27 or 28. He still has alot of time to improve. 

 

Below, The #99 would indicate he ranked 99 , ED is for Edge and the red color is designated to Poor rating, while AB had the blue for elite . Now I have to ask, is there a #100 or is the ranking limited to 2 digits? Enough of the humour , 99 is still way to far down the list for a RD1 pick in his 3rd year . Pouncey is ranked #20 and while I thought he was overrated, that looks a bit harsh. The site at least offers fans some way of seeing how a player has graded for the season. As a viewer, we are limited and can't do such. Kethnaab used to do the coaches 2-2 breakdown which was informative. 

 

As for Cam helping out, both him and Tuitt had very high rankings. Our strength is inside now, and Watt had a good rating. Dupree has 3 players on the line with good ranks, and then there is dupree.  The more I look into this , the more dupree needs to play better, that is it and I am not referring to chasing plays or 5 second+ /coverage sacks either . Our coverage is better and the interior is better and possibly the scheme . 

OK, comparison to jones is harsh, I guess I have CB memory, but you see where I was going. I don't believe dupree had that many pressures, much be a mistake. At least dupree chases and will hit. Jarvis seemed to be a total waste of a pick, one of the worst for this Regime.  

2017 PFF Grades

Overall

50.4

#99 ED

Elite

 

High Quality

 

Above Average

 

Average

 

Below Average

 

Poor

 

 

[43M]

On 1/3/2018 at 8:35 AM, TheKillerNacho said:

Bottom 5:
2. Roosevelt Nix 37.7

Nix was quite good for us.   Doesnt get used much, but 2nd worst FB in the league?   I find that hard to believe.

On 1/3/2018 at 8:35 AM, TheKillerNacho said:

Bottom 5:
1. Sean Davis 34.8

On the other hand, I do believe this.  

Davis was laughably bad, especially in the 2nd half of the season,   I cant imagine Mike Mitchell was far off from being bottom 5.   We have arguably the worst safety tandem in the league.  

[43M]

37 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I could be wrong because I don't follow that site or take anything they say seriously but I don't think "99th" means the 99th worst edge rusher in the league. I think that means the 99th ranked player in league by their metric system, regardless of position. I could be wrong about that......atleast I HOPE so anyhow.

Comparing him to Jones...ouch! That's pretty harsh. Especially considering Jones  never registered more than 5 pass pressures(discounting coverage pressure or sacks) in 14 games in any given season(4 in 2014 and only 5 in 2015) and Dupree put up 25.5 this year in just 14 games --13 if you wanna count his early absence for injury game. Not too mention that Duprree is only 24 years old and not 26, 27 like Jones was. 

Dupree needs to work on his ability to anticipate the play call and learn to stay in his gap assignments on run plays. But despite that bs PFF site or the "sack" numbers say he wasn't that bad at all this year in rushing the QB(his primary job given his scout reports) finishing with 25.5 good for 15th among all LBers(IIRC) including those(Melvin) that play in a hybrid system and not including those that play left side exclusively.

Those 25.5 pass pressures didn't come from just one or two inflated games either. The consistency was also there in comparison to his contemporaries at his position as well (depending on what your expecting out of him anyhow - he's not Von Miller, we know that) as he only had 1 game(week 3 against the Bears) where registered no QB pressures. The rest wasn't bad though.

Week 01 @Browns : 0 (W) - DID NOT PLAY
Week 02 Vikings : 4 (W) 
Week 03 @Bears  : 0 (L)
Week 04 @Ravens : 1.5 (W)
Week 05 Jaguars : 3 (L)
Week 06 @Chiefs : 1 (W)
Week 07 Bengals : 2 (W)
Week 08 @Lions  : 3.5 (W)
Week 10 @Colts  : 1 (W)
Week 11 Titans  : 
Week 12 Packers : 2
Week 13 @Bengals: 1.5
Week 14 Ravens  : 2.5
Week 15 Patriots: 1
Week 16 @Texans : 1.5
Week 17 Browns  : 0 - DID NOT PLAY

--------------------

Now, you could make an argument that Cam being on the other side has helped him alot in this regard but what shouldn't go unnoticed is that even I expected his numbers to drop tremendously after Shazier(who covers his side) got hurt but that hasn't happened yet. That has to account for something.

I think you need to lower the expectations and remember that he's only 24 years old. Not 27 or 28. He still has alot of time to improve. 

I have no love from PFF or their garbage metrics or assessments of players, but Dupree is pretty awful, and thats just an objective assessment from a diehard Steeler fan.

I had high hopes for Dupree coming into the season and he disappointed me in every facet.      He disappears when we need him most, at times you cant even tell he is on the field because he gets washed out of so many plays, and his pass rush ability almost entirely consists of him trying to run around blockers, and players like that dont go far in this league.     

Jarvis and Dupree are two very different players, but they are failing for seemingly similar reasons....neither showed much progression in 3 years, neither had any technique or hand skills to speak of, and both seemed to lack functional strength.     

Dupree would be a fine backup.     I have no hope left that he will ever be a quality starter.    After 3 years, you can usually tell what trajectory a player is on.   Some people will cite a guy like James Harrison, but Harrison always had the ability....he just didnt have the right mindset.      Nothing Ive seen from Dupree tells me he has the ability outside of sheer athleticism....and even that is somewhat overrated since he doesnt even seem to know how to use it...although you could argue thats a coaching issue as well, but seeing as how Watt has shown more technique and better hand usage in his rookie season than Dupree has ever shown between college and pros,  I have a hard time believing its a coaching issue.  

[3rivers]

9 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Nix was quite good for us.   Doesnt get used much, but 2nd worst FB in the league?   I find that hard to believe.

On the other hand, I do believe this.  

Davis was laughably bad, especially in the 2nd half of the season,   I cant imagine Mike Mitchell was far off from being bottom 5.   We have arguably the worst safety tandem in the league.  

Yeah, and we haven't had such safety play in many years, maybe ever since I have watched.  Safety is critical IMO, better address this weakness this year. 

[3rivers]

9 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I have no love from PFF or their garbage metrics or assessments of players, but Dupree is pretty awful, and thats just an objective assessment from a diehard Steeler fan.

I had high hopes for Dupree coming into the season and he disappointed me in every facet.      He disappears when we need him most, at times you cant even tell he is on the field because he gets washed out of so many plays, and his pass rush ability almost entirely consists of him trying to run around blockers, and players like that dont go far in this league.     

Jarvis and Dupree are two very different players, but they are failing for seemingly similar reasons....neither showed much progression in 3 years, neither had any technique or hand skills to speak of, and both seemed to lack functional strength.     

Dupree would be a fine backup.     I have no hope left that he will ever be a quality starter.    After 3 years, you can usually tell what trajectory a player is on.   Some people will cite a guy like James Harrison, but Harrison always had the ability....he just didnt have the right mindset.      Nothing Ive seen from Dupree tells me he has the ability outside of sheer athleticism....and even that is somewhat overrated since he doesnt even seem to know how to use it...although you could argue thats a coaching issue as well, but seeing as how Watt has shown more technique and better hand usage in his rookie season than Dupree has ever shown between college and pros,  I have a hard time believing its a coaching issue.  

agree. 3 years is a good window and I don't see any improvement. The athleticism is there, he will chase and bring physicality, as Matt Moore. Problem is, in this league, Edge needs to be disruptive somehow, be it attracting additional blockers to free up other, or getting to the qb ~3sec range.  Dupree does none of that, so where is this going. If they could trade him , that would be a start, but it won't happen , I mean look how they kept jarvis around. I miss the D where we had threats at Edge.  We got 56 sacks new team record with i decent edge rusher - a rookie. What if we had a good safety and or Edge rusher? 

I couldn't watch dupree's highlights clip on youtube when he was in college, now I know why. Too slow off the snap and not moves or hand work. The team should know better than to spend a RD1 pick like this and Jarvis,  what a waste IMO.  Don't get me started on Lawson  (or others).  Between the scouts,  Porter, Butler and Tomlin, they should have known better. If dupree played as well as he twitters about Harrison, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Small Town Values]

On 05/01/2018 at 2:32 AM, TheKillerNacho said:

Their website, but it requires you to pay them monies. As I said in the OP, my friend is subscribed so he lets me see the list. I don't want to post more of it than I have, to avoid him or this site from getting in trouble for posting "premium" content.

Cool, understandable... I was just looking for Adoree' Jackson's final overall season grading. I'll track it down somewhere. 

[JAF-N72EX]

@3rivers and @FourThreeMafia, I hear you guys. Three years for his position is a pretty good sizable measure and you expect more out of a 1st round pick. But not every player is going to be a Von Miller or a Houston or a Mack. Most aren't and you don't necessarily have to be either to bring value to the team. If you look at LOLB position around the league and compare Dupree, who is only 24 and coming off his best season, to other players at his position...that's where I see his value and potential, imo. 

Hightower for the Patriots was almost out of job and had 1st rounf bust written all over him in his first 3-4 years before getting it together. He's still not a top tier OLB but he adds alot of value to that teams defense. The Jets spent years looking to fill that position and spent two or three early 1st round picks on Pace and Gholston. The Bears had to dig into FA to get there guy after transitioning to the 3-4 and his career might be over at the age of 27. So they're still looking to pair Lloyd.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but below I just chose some random players off the top of my head that played the same position in a 3-4 just to illustrate that he may not be a top end player at his position but he's not the worst either. In fact if I dug a little deeper you might find that he would somewhere in the middle or maybe higher.

• Bud Dupree        = 6.0 SK | 0 FF | 1 DEF | 7.5 STF | 25.5 QBP
• Clay Matthews  = 7.5 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 5.0 STF | 24.5 QBP
• Justin Houston = 9.5 SK | 0 FF | 5 DEF | 5.0 STF | 41.0 QBP
• Jordan Jenkins = 3.0 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 2.0 STF | 20.0 QBP
• Robert Quinn     = 8.5 SK | 2 FF | 1 DEF | 3.0 STF | 18.5 QBP
• Kahil Mack       = 10.5SK | 1 FF | 3 DEF | 4.5 STF | 53.0 QBP 

Chicago Bears| Pernell McPhee | 5th Round 
Only fell to the 5th becuase of knee concerns and those concerns were warranted. Was used in multiple position in Baltimore but only plays the LOLB positon in Chicago. Great when he's on the field but his career may already be over.

New England Patriots | Donta Hightower | 1st Round
Out this year with an injury so it's not very fair to compare. Overall, I won't argue that he's better now if you compare his '16 season to Dupree's '17 season but he struggled alot as well in his first 3-4 years. I'd argue even more so than Dupree has. 

Green Bya Packers | Clay Matthews | 1st Round
No where near what he used to be. Played the left this year, started out the season well but sputtered out. Plus the Packers run alot of nickel and not a traditional under/over 3-4 so I don't think that's a fair comparison anyhow. 

Cardinals--Same as the Packers. Not a fair comparison due to the different scheme and alignment.

That's just a few examples. Again, it's a tough position to fill and even if his "success" this season was primarily just a reflection of his supporting cast, he's still played that part well imo. Even system players can add value to a team and have a place in the league. 

I don't know, I guess we'll see in the coming years. Next year is his 4th season under his rookie contract so we'll see whether he gets that second one or if the team moves on and drafts his replacement.

On 1/5/2018 at 1:24 AM, 3rivers said:

Below, The #99 would indicate he ranked 99 ,

Thanks for clarifying this. I won't beat a dead horse here about how terrible I think PFF is and why because your entitled to your opinion. 

[3rivers]

18 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@3rivers and @FourThreeMafia, I hear you guys. Three years for his position is a pretty good sizable measure and you expect more out of a 1st round pick. But not every player is going to be a Von Miller or a Houston or a Mack. Most aren't and you don't necessarily have to be either to bring value to the team. If you look at LOLB position around the league and compare Dupree, who is only 24 and coming off his best season, to other players at his position...that's where I see his value and potential, imo. 

Hightower for the Patriots was almost out of job and had 1st rounf bust written all over him in his first 3-4 years before getting it together. He's still not a top tier OLB but he adds alot of value to that teams defense. The Jets spent years looking to fill that position and spent two or three early 1st round picks on Pace and Gholston. The Bears had to dig into FA to get there guy after transitioning to the 3-4 and his career might be over at the age of 27. So they're still looking to pair Lloyd.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but below I just chose some random players off the top of my head that played the same position in a 3-4 just to illustrate that he may not be a top end player at his position but he's not the worst either. In fact if I dug a little deeper you might find that he would somewhere in the middle or maybe higher.

• Bud Dupree        = 6.0 SK | 0 FF | 1 DEF | 7.5 STF | 25.5 QBP
• Clay Matthews  = 7.5 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 5.0 STF | 24.5 QBP
• Justin Houston = 9.5 SK | 0 FF | 5 DEF | 5.0 STF | 41.0 QBP
• Jordan Jenkins = 3.0 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 2.0 STF | 20.0 QBP
• Robert Quinn     = 8.5 SK | 2 FF | 1 DEF | 3.0 STF | 18.5 QBP
• Kahil Mack       = 10.5SK | 1 FF | 3 DEF | 4.5 STF | 53.0 QBP 

Chicago Bears| Pernell McPhee | 5th Round 
Only fell to the 5th becuase of knee concerns and those concerns were warranted. Was used in multiple position in Baltimore but only plays the LOLB positon in Chicago. Great when he's on the field but his career may already be over.

New England Patriots | Donta Hightower | 1st Round
Out this year with an injury so it's not very fair to compare. Overall, I won't argue that he's better now if you compare his '16 season to Dupree's '17 season but he struggled alot as well in his first 3-4 years. I'd argue even more so than Dupree has. 

Green Bya Packers | Clay Matthews | 1st Round
No where near what he used to be. Played the left this year, started out the season well but sputtered out. Plus the Packers run alot of nickel and not a traditional under/over 3-4 so I don't think that's a fair comparison anyhow. 

Cardinals--Same as the Packers. Not a fair comparison due to the different scheme and alignment.

That's just a few examples. Again, it's a tough position to fill and even if his "success" this season was primarily just a reflection of his supporting cast, he's still played that part well imo. Even system players can add value to a team and have a place in the league. 

I don't know, I guess we'll see in the coming years. Next year is his 4th season under his rookie contract so we'll see whether he gets that second one or if the team moves on and drafts his replacement.

Thanks for clarifying this. I won't beat a dead horse here about how terrible I think PFF is and why because your entitled to your opinion. 

I agree that PFF isn't something  to be set in stone, but is a fair guideline IMO. 

Quinn has less pressures because Donald is probably there first - something to consider

Unless Houston has an injury, he is not to be compared despite if the stats appear similar. He might not have recovered from his knee, but was dominant and if wasn't for Watt would  have been DPOY one year. Too bad what happened with his knee .

Looking at the chart you provided , maybe Dupree has good trade value buy stats and players on that chart.  If Dupree keeps getting better it is all good, I just think being slow off the snap is such a problem and ultimately will limit the ceiling. He doesn't have the handwork and counter moves either it seems. Watt is already noticeably better and is a rookie.

What edge rushers will be in UFA this year?

[JAF-N72EX]

26 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

What edge rushers will be in UFA this year?

Not really sure but that's something that might be worth looking into though. 

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Not really sure but that's something that might be worth looking into though. 

the draftniks here will have the UFA's posted eventually, usually after the season. 

[43M]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@3rivers and @FourThreeMafia, I hear you guys. Three years for his position is a pretty good sizable measure and you expect more out of a 1st round pick. But not every player is going to be a Von Miller or a Houston or a Mack. Most aren't and you don't necessarily have to be either to bring value to the team. If you look at LOLB position around the league and compare Dupree, who is only 24 and coming off his best season, to other players at his position...that's where I see his value and potential, imo. 

Hightower for the Patriots was almost out of job and had 1st rounf bust written all over him in his first 3-4 years before getting it together. He's still not a top tier OLB but he adds alot of value to that teams defense. The Jets spent years looking to fill that position and spent two or three early 1st round picks on Pace and Gholston. The Bears had to dig into FA to get there guy after transitioning to the 3-4 and his career might be over at the age of 27. So they're still looking to pair Lloyd.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but below I just chose some random players off the top of my head that played the same position in a 3-4 just to illustrate that he may not be a top end player at his position but he's not the worst either. In fact if I dug a little deeper you might find that he would somewhere in the middle or maybe higher.

• Bud Dupree        = 6.0 SK | 0 FF | 1 DEF | 7.5 STF | 25.5 QBP
• Clay Matthews  = 7.5 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 5.0 STF | 24.5 QBP
• Justin Houston = 9.5 SK | 0 FF | 5 DEF | 5.0 STF | 41.0 QBP
• Jordan Jenkins = 3.0 SK | 1 FF | 2 DEF | 2.0 STF | 20.0 QBP
• Robert Quinn     = 8.5 SK | 2 FF | 1 DEF | 3.0 STF | 18.5 QBP
• Kahil Mack       = 10.5SK | 1 FF | 3 DEF | 4.5 STF | 53.0 QBP 

Im not holding him up to the standard of a Von Miller or Houston or Mack.   Im looking at the job he is asked to do within our defense.

He is pretty terrible vs the run.

He isnt good in coverage.

He is streaky at best as a pass rusher, and I would lean towards "bad".

The QB pressures cited dont mean much without context.   What PFF calls a "QB pressure" is often pretty weak IMO.   I remember they gave Jarvis Jones a pressure one time in a game where he never got remotely close to the QB in the game.   So without knowing exactly what they call "pressure", its hard to trust those numbers.   Beyond that, even if you want to believe those numbers, as I said, he is very streaky.   Lets say, for arguments sake, he did have 25 QBP's.....but if he had 6 QBs in one half vs the Bengals.....4 in one quarter vs the Chiefs...5 in one half vs the Browns, and the other 10 were kind of sprinkled around here and there....that doesnt mean he is playing well.    Far too often he still gets no where near the QB.   Far too often, he gets complete washed out of plays.   Far to often, he is out of position.   There is more to his job than just going after the QB, and he isnt good at those.   And even when he is pass rushing, I find myself getting annoyed how mediocre he is at it given his athletic prowess.    He doesnt get in the QBs face nearly as much as those QBPs might imply.      And as I said, even when he does, alot of times he is barely touched or they are "clean up" sacks.     Us Steeler fans call them "Gildongs"  because Jason Gildon used to get sacks like that all the time back in the late 90s.     

Im not the type of fan who starts bashing a player (or coach) based off a few bad games or one bad year like alot of fans do....so this isnt a kneejerk or an overreaction.   This is coming from someone who admittedly didnt love Dupree when we drafted him but gave him a fair shot.    His rookie year he didnt do much except show some flashes, and I was okay with that.    Last year he was injured and showed some more flashes, so I was excited about him this year.    This year, he has honestly seeming gotten WORSE, because the flashes arent there as much and he hasnt really gotten any better in any other phase.

Bottom line...Im not expecting Dupree to be elite or anywhere close to it, but he isnt even good.  He isnt even average.   He isnt even on the same level as guys like Clark Haggans, who was just an average starter for us.   Hell, Im not convinced Dupree is even better than Arthur Moats, who is a below average starter/backup.     Thats what I see Dupree as....a guy who could be a serviceable backup but really hasnt shown me he is a capable starter.