2018 NFL Draft Discussion

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said:

OMG I'm gonna smack you

I <3 U

[AlexGreen#20]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, every year we have guys fall in the draft who shouldn't.  I mean, remember when Andrew Billings was in play for our 1st round pick a few year ago?  Remember when Erin Henderson wasn't supposed to be anything worse than a 2nd round pick?  Players fall in the draft more than they should.  That's nothing new.  I don't see why people take these mock simulations so seriously.  They're a fun exercise and nothing more.  It's like eating popcorn when you're hungry.  It'll tied you over, but it's not meant to fill your need.

Billings had a non publicized degenerative knee condition. I can't comment on Henderson, that was a bit before my time. 

It is ultimately harmless, but most of the time it just seems like very poor speculation.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Billings had a non publicized degenerative knee condition. I can't comment on Henderson, that was a bit before my time. 

It is ultimately harmless, but most of the time it just seems like very poor speculation.

Long story short, he was missing his ACL.

[Leader]

I think you nailed it about Davenport @AlexGreen#20

I've got to watch more tape on him - cause what I've seen - and I'm sure its less than alot of you - showed a slow guy - IMO.

Last I heard, things dont get slower in the NFL and Davenport wasnt facing top college talent.

I've got to see him some more.

I want a FREAK with this draft pick LOL. I dont want another Datone Jones. Big guy - big school program (in that case) - he disappeared in the NFL "impact-wise".

A play here - a play a game or two later.

Thats exactly what we cant draft anymore.

Add on edit:  We're about to give the store to AR - which I'm hoping (against hope) makes our CAP space more managable as opposed to jamming us up. That said - we've got to HIT our draft picks with PLAYERS.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

9 minutes ago, Leader said:

I think you nailed it about Davenport @AlexGreen#20

I've got to watch more tape on him - cause what I've seen - and I'm sure its less than alot of you - showed a slow guy - IMO.

Last I heard, things dont get slower in the NFL and Davenport wasnt facing top college talent.

I've got to see him some more.

I want a FREAK with this draft pick LOL. I dont want another Datone Jones. Big guy - big school program (in that case) - he disappeared in the NFL "impact-wise".

A play here - a play a game or two later.

Thats exactly what we cant draft anymore.

Who are the guys you consider to be freaks?

Barkley 

James

Edmunds

LVE

Gisecki

Apke

Maybe Ward if you're okay with him being short. 

Good chance that Barkley, James, Edmunds, and Ward are all gone by 14.

 

 

[incognito_man]

Landry is a freak athlete. Why does he keep getting overlooked? I really don't get it.

[squire12]

 

Harold Landry

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/harold-landry

He is an elite athlete is may aspects, just not across the board that some want.  I really like him for GB at pick 14.

 

Measurable	Measurement	%tile
Height	6' 2⅜"	17
Weight	252 lbs	16
Wingspan	78⅞"	38
Arm Length	32⅞"	22
Hand Size	9⅜"	15
40 Yard Dash	4.64s	87
Vertical Jump	36"	82
Broad Jump	119"	72
3-Cone Drill	6.88s	95
20 Yard Shuttle	4.19s	91
60 Yard Shuttle	11.35s	99
Bench Press	24 reps	55

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Landry is a freak athlete. Why does he keep getting overlooked? I really don't get it.

Landry's borderline. He's really only top shelf as a bend guy, but the get off and the jumps are both very good if just short of great. 

[Leader]

22 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Who are the guys you consider to be freaks?

Barkley 

James

Edmunds

LVE

Gisecki

Apke

Maybe Ward if you're okay with him being short. 

Good chance that Barkley, James, Edmunds, and Ward are all gone by 14.

Not taking this wrong - so please dont take my response wrong - but you're asking the wrong guy.

I dont watch college football - so my knowledge base of these guys is limited and I'm not burning up computer time trying to get caught up on lost time. I'm NOT a ball buster about the draft for exactly that reason. I let the team pull the strings. Thats why - when I was taken to task last week some time for giving TT a hard time - completely not the case. I give them the benefit of the doubt - then I give the player that benefit of the doubt: "He's a rookie.....he was hurt......too much was forced on him too quickly.... (fill in the blank)" It takes awhile for me to pull "my plug" on a player - and thats ultimately based on what I see on the field.

Do I know who the "freaks" are? No. Thats why its a good thing I'm not running the draft eh?

But you get the general concept. WE - not just me - WE - need PLAYERS at these positions. Difference makers. Not JAGs.

I see (or consider) things more along position groups as opposed to individual players (again, the player background is lacking) - and coming into this draft I was all EDGE, EDGE, EDGE. Gotta be our focus. Then we had the CB stuff and my focus got diffused - then - it doesnt appear the really talented pool of EDGE guys is all that deep. So - do we draft a middling talent at EDGE (?) or a kickass CB or hybrid Safety? 

You wanna know my answer for that? I dont have an answer for that.

Davenport doesnt knock me dead. Do I know all there is to know about the guy? Certainly not. So - is Landry that guy? Well, he;s got more get up and go than Davenport - but he's not strong enough (yet) and it appears his game is limited (now). I want this 1st Round draft selection to START this year. Plug whoever it is in and play him - meaning - draft somebody who will fit that bill. 

I LIKE what I saw of Edmunds. Somewhat "wrong" position group for us this year - and we'd have to move up to snag him at that. Oh well - but - of the limited players I've seen on tape - he'd be MY #1 because I THINK he's gonna be something special.

And you build around the special players - the difference makers - on your roster - if you go get them.

 

[incognito_man]

20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Landry's borderline. He's really only top shelf as a bend guy, but the get off and the jumps are both very good if just short of great. 

Top 1% in the RAS Raymond is posting. He elite explosively as well. His 10yd is elite and his jumps and very good to elite. AND he can bend.

[squire12]

12 minutes ago, Leader said:

WE - need PLAYERS at these positions. Difference makers. Not JAGs.

GB is not alone in this quest for "difference makers".  ALL 31 other teams want these types of players.  Finding them and drafting them are another matter.  

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

Not taking this wrong - so please dont take my response wrong - but you're asking the wrong guy.

I dont watch college football - so my knowledge base of these guys is limited and I'm not burning up computer time trying to get caught up on lost time. I'm NOT a ball buster about the draft for exactly that reason. I let the team pull the strings. Thats why - when I was taken to task last week some time for giving TT a hard time - completely not the case. I give them the benefit of the doubt - then I give the player that benefit of the doubt: "He's a rookie.....he was hurt......too much was forced on him too quickly.... (fill in the blank)" It takes awhile for me to pull "my plug" on a player - and thats ultimately based on what I see on the field.

Do I know who the "freaks" are? No. Thats why its a good thing I'm not running the draft eh?

But you get the general concept. WE - not just me - WE - need PLAYERS at these positions. Difference makers. Not JAGs.

I see (or consider) things more along position groups as opposed to individual players (again, the player background is lacking) - and coming into this draft I was all EDGE, EDGE, EDGE. Gotta be our focus. Then we had the CB stuff and my focus got diffused - then - it doesnt appear the really talented pool of EDGE guys is all that deep. So - do we draft a middling talent at EDGE (?) or a kickass CB or hybrid Safety? 

You wanna know my answer for that? I dont have an answer for that.

Davenport doesnt knock me dead. Do I know all there is to know about the guy? Certainly not. So - is Landry that guy? Well, he;s got more get up and go than Davenport - but he's not strong enough (yet) and it appears his game is limited (now). I want this 1st Round draft selection to START this year. Plug whoever it is in and play him - meaning - draft somebody who will fit that bill. 

I LIKE what I was of Edmunds. Somewhat "wrong" position group for us this year - and we'd have to move up to snag him at that. Oh well - but - of the limited players I've seen on tape - he'd be MY #1 because I THINK he's gonna be something special.

Makes sense. 

What you'll discover as you invest more of your time is that the NFL draft is a lot more luck and fit than anybody is willing to admit. You find guys a home, you find guys a coach, you build them up using what they already can do and you build their confidence and skillset until they can do other things. 

The guys who are pro ready and can plug into any system and be difference makers, those are the top 5 non QBs in a good class. In this class there's anywhere from 2 to 5. It's not a top heavy year. 

At 14 you're not going to pull a guy who is going to have a super high athletic ceiling and be pro ready to contribute in minicamp. You might get a shot at Nelson, but position value matters. 

+++

The Packers have a good coach and a good QB. That's going to keep them from ever bottoming out. You're never going to pull the high value edge rushers in the draft without bottoming out. If you're lucky you'll be able to match scheme to a scheme limited but highly productive player, but in the 20s even that's a tough game.

Put more money down on the table that your evaluation is right and the rest of the league is wrong, possible. 

Or settle on a limited player and pray. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Top 1% in the RAS Raymond is posting. He elite explosively as well. His 10yd is elite and his jumps and very good to elite. AND he can bend.

He's only 250 pounds. If you want to make the argument that he's an elite athlete, I'm not going to fight you too hard on it.

I just have a different defintion of elite at that spot. I think of Von Miller, Jadeveon Clowney, Myles Garrett, etc. I don't think Landry is in that class. I don't even think he's in the Joey Bosa, Kahlil Mack sub class of freak athlete. 

[Leader]

11 minutes ago, squire12 said:

GB is not alone in this quest for "difference makers".  ALL 31 other teams want these types of players.  Finding them and drafting them are another matter.  

This is true and a good comment.

Hence my previously stated thought that we MIGHT have sat back a bit too many times and let the draft come to us - meaning, selecting at the bottom of each round.

That our "talent evaluators" may have gotten picked over by other organizations. Were we as sharp as we used to be (?) as sharp as we need to be?

That we pulled off few trades or draft day swaps - either to move up in that particular draft - or give us shot at a HIGHER draft slot the following year.

That we may have gotten too "staid" in our functioning.

Now - that NOT a dig on the organization. Why? Cause I dont know if these are all true.

But I feel we've needed to get sharper for some time. How exactly? I dont have all those answers. I'm just a fan.

[Leader]

10 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He's only 250 pounds. If you want to make the argument that he's an elite athlete, I'm not going to fight you too hard on it.

I just have a different defintion of elite at that spot. I think of Von Miller, Jadeveon Clowney, Myles Garrett, etc. I don't think Landry is in that class. I don't even think he's in the Joey Bosa, Kahlil Mack sub class of freak athlete. 

If your assessment is correct - then we dont draft this guy IMO.

Correction: Not at 14