skibrett15 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Leader said: The fallback option that I've read is to let the offense maintain possession but move the ball back to the 20 with loss of down. I would prefer the defense gets possession, but they get possession where the fumble happened. You know, like other plays. Now, if they recover in the end zone, still get the touchback, but if it goes out the endzone, get the ball where the player fumbled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: would prefer the defense gets possession, but they get possession where the fumble happened. You know, like other play There are exactly zero other plays where the non-possessing team gets possession after the ball goes out of play except for your own end zone you're defending which is then a safety. Edited January 22 by incognito_man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 4 minutes ago, incognito_man said: There are exactly zero other plays where the non-possessing team gets possession after the ball goes out of play except for your own end zone you're defending which is then a safety. yeah but that doesn't matter. Precedent/consistency doesn't matter to me. Competitive balance is what rules are all about. I'm in agreement with others that there needs to be a risk/reward scenario for being loose with the ball near the end zone. The simple act of fumbling OB should be more punishing. There's no other spot fouls besides PI and (technically) offensive holding. But that's ok. Uniqueness doesn't mean bad necessarily. There's lots of niche and obscure rules in the rulebook, and while it maybe makes the game less approachable for new viewers, it does make it more engrossing in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, incognito_man said: There are exactly zero other plays where the non-possessing team gets possession after the ball goes out of play except for your own end zone you're defending which is then a safety. Its ok to have slightly different rules for the endzone vs other yardlines on the field. Ball breaks plane of endzone its an automatic TD regardless of whether the player decides to run 3 yards backward after the ball crosses the plane of the endzone. If that happens at any other spot, the ball is marked where the player gets tackled, not the farthest point the ball reached at any point of the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 21 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: yeah but that doesn't matter. Wait. The truth doesn't matter? It does to me. Which is why I corrected you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 22 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: I'm in agreement with others that there needs to be a risk/reward scenario for being loose with the ball near the end zone. The simple act of fumbling OB should be more punishing. There's no other spot fouls besides PI and (technically) offensive holding. But that's ok. Uniqueness doesn't mean bad necessarily. There's lots of niche and obscure rules in the rulebook, and while it maybe makes the game less approachable for new viewers, it does make it more engrossing in my opinion. If the only argument for it is "competitive balance" it's a stupid rule. Find better changes that are sensical to reset the balance of it's needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 9 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Wait. The truth doesn't matter? It does to me. Which is why I corrected you. yeah i made the assumption that fumbling out the opponent's end zone = losing possession. It's not technically correct. what I mean to say is when you fumble out the end zone, you are surrendering possession of the ball. Which I like. But I think the rule would be better if it didn't come with an added 20 yard bonus. You still managed to bring the ball to the brink, and the recovering team shouldn't get that benefit. At its core the NFL football game is a war/territory game. Your goal is to advance to the opponent's territory, aka their end zone, while possessing the ball. Each side owns their end zone. In between the end zones is the neutral field. If you fumble the ball into the opponent's end zone, you have not fumbled into a neutral site. You have fumbled into the opponent's nexus, into their hub, into their home. They own all that territory out of bounds. It seems natural that they would recover the ball in that situation, and you would surrender it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: At its core the NFL football game is a war/territory game. Your goal is to advance to the opponent's territory, aka their end zone, while possessing the ball. Each side owns their end zone. In between the end zones is the neutral field. If you fumble the ball into the opponent's end zone, you have not fumbled into a neutral site. You have fumbled into the opponent's nexus, into their hub, into their home. They own all that territory out of bounds. It seems natural that they would recover the ball in that situation, and you would surrender it. Following this logic, they should also then change the rules that if you fumbled out of your own end zone you retain possession. No safety or change of possession, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: Following this logic, they should also then change the rules that if you fumbled out of your own end zone you retain possession. No safety or change of possession, correct? you do/have retained possession, except in the form of a free kick. up to you what you decide to do with that free kick. You have been beaten back on your offensive turn to your very city limits. The offensive was so absolutely poor that you gained nothing in terms of territory and in fact lost ground. Despite supposedly being the aggressor, you have instead failed completely except in that you have technically retained possession of the ball (not a defensive TD). You are penalized 2 points and must now kick off. Makes sense to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: you do/have retained possession, except in the form of a free kick. up to you what you decide to do with that free kick. You have been beaten back on your offensive turn to your very city limits. The offensive was so absolutely poor that you gained nothing in terms of territory and in fact lost ground. Despite supposedly being the aggressor, you have instead failed completely except in that you have technically retained possession of the ball (not a defensive TD). You are penalized 2 points and must now kick off. Makes sense to me it's logically inconsistent w/ the war analogy you posed. If you control the territory of your own end zone, you should retain possession. You obviously do not on a free kick. Let's keep the game and rules logically consistent. If you use war games as your analogy, the rule as-is is inconsistent and the league is absolutely right to fix that. There are plenty of wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better rules to fix to give the defense more of a competitive advantage than this illogical one. Edited January 22 by incognito_man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Leader said: No. There must be a penalty. There must be suffering. Give the ball back to the offense at the spot of the fumble and.... hit them with a switch from the backyard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebpackfan Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 32 minutes ago, Kepler said: Give the ball back to the offense at the spot of the fumble and.... hit them with a switch from the backyard? okay, Adrian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Hmmm....interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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