Nabbs4u Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 9:15 AM, MWil23 said: It will and should point out that football is a TEAM SPORT and that the Eagles are really freaking good on both sides of the ball, and that Wentz is clearly a GREAT QB who is also on a GREAT team. It will also probably point out that Nick Foles is a fantastic backup QB and he will probably get the opportunity to start somewhere next year/the year after as a lower tier NFL starting QB. Sums it up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Darth Pees said: I think it'll dampen the Carson Wentz for MVP talk quite a bit and simultaneously increase the appreciation and hype around Doug Pederson and his offensive coaches. Funny because the complete opposite was being suggested about Foles before the Vikings game. Everyone was trashing him after his 5 QT vs the Raiders and Cowgirls. Questioning his ability to play the position. Questioning his ability to lead them to a win. Now all of a sudden Nick plays well (game manager vs Atlanta, beast vs Minnesota) and Wentz's production is now in question? The only thing that has changed and Pleasantly to my Surprise is Doug Pedersons ability to "adapt" his philosophy. Not force feed what Wentz did well ( like he did with Nick wk 16-17) but what Foles does well ( ATL/Minny). Nothing detracts from Carson's season. With or without a SB victory. It will only make people wonder What If he was playing and how much better they could of been if healthy. Anyone suggesting the Eagles aren't better with Wentz more dangerous with Wentz, is off their rocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 10:26 PM, iknowcool said: It might affect how some casuals and parts of the media view him going forward. For me, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't hold it against him if they never got back. Unless you're the Patriots, getting to the Super Bowl is a difficult task that you're lucky to accomplish once in 10 years. Rodgers still hasn't been back since the 『10-『11 season. And that's Aaron Rodgers. Brees, a first ballot HOFer, only made it once in his career. Bless you for using "couldn't' instead of "could". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 56 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Funny because the complete opposite was being suggested about Foles before the Vikings game. Everyone was trashing him after his 5 QT vs the Raiders and Cowgirls. Questioning his ability to play the position. Questioning his ability to lead them to a win. Now all of a sudden Nick plays well (game manager vs Atlanta, beast vs Minnesota) and Wentz's production is now in question? The only thing that has changed and Pleasantly to my Surprise is Doug Pedersons ability to "adapt" his philosophy. Not force feed what Wentz did well ( like he did with Nick wk 16-17) but what Foles does well ( ATL/Minny). Nothing detracts from Carson's season. With or without a SB victory. It will only make people wonder What If he was playing and how much better they could of been if healthy. Anyone suggesting the Eagles aren't better with Wentz more dangerous with Wentz, is off their rocker. Nope, his value to the team is in question, especially if Foles wins the Superbowl (and presumably plays well, again). I never suggested they weren't worse or less dangerous without Wentz, I'm simply suggesting that since Foles is now playing well under Pederson's system as well, why would Wentz's MVP candidacy not take a hit as a result? If Pederson is showing he can win and elevate the play of 2 QB's, why would Wentz be the MVP? It has nothing to do with Wentz himself, and everything to do with Pederson's system. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Darth Pees said: Nope, his value to the team is in question, especially if Foles wins the Superbowl (and presumably plays well, again). I never suggested they weren't worse or less dangerous without Wentz, I'm simply suggesting that since Foles is now playing well under Pederson's system as well, why would Wentz's MVP candidacy not take a hit as a result? If Pederson is showing he can win and elevate the play of 2 QB's, why would Wentz be the MVP? It has nothing to do with Wentz himself, and everything to do with Pederson's system. That's all. Because that's faulty thinking. It's like making the same suggestion (wrong mind you) if Jimmy G would of done the same for Brady. Doesn't negative what transpired. Not for Carson or Tom. What it does is show Pederson might actually be smart. This isn't the same Offense Wentz was running. He tried that in wks 16-17 and failed miserably. It wasn't till DP changed and adapted to Nick's strengths that the past two weeks occurred. You don't have to have a backup to crap the bed for justification just like you don't need the backup to Go off to prove the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Because that's faulty thinking. It's like making the same suggestion (wrong mind you) if Jimmy G would of done the same for Brady. Doesn't negative what transpired. Not for Carson or Tom. What it does is show Pederson might actually be smart. This isn't the same Offense Wentz was running. He tried that in wks 16-17 and failed miserably. It wasn't till DP changed and adapted to Nick's strengths that the past two weeks occurred. You don't have to have a backup to crap the bed for justification just like you don't need the backup to Go off to prove the opposite. Maybe? Brady's already had a decade plus of success in different schemes with different coordinators and personnel. Wentz has not. Brady has proven over years and years of playing that he's valuable. Wentz has not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Maybe? Brady's already had a decade plus of success in different schemes with different coordinators and personnel. Wentz has not. Brady has proven over years and years of playing that he's valuable. Wentz has not. People give Brady crap because his back up inherited a team he went 16-0 on and went to a Super Bowl with, with the most physically talented WR ever on it, and went 11-5 and missed out on the playoffs via a tiebreaker. Feel bad for the nonsense Eagles fans will already hear over Wentz back up making a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, lancerman said: People give Brady crap because his back up inherited a team he went 16-0 on and went to a Super Bowl with, with the most physically talented WR ever on it, and went 11-5 and missed out on the playoffs via a tiebreaker. Feel bad for the nonsense Eagles fans will already hear over Wentz back up making a SB. And to be fair, almost every time someone tries to make the argument about Cassel it's almost immediately discredited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, Darth Pees said: And to be fair, almost every time someone tries to make the argument about Cassel it's almost immediately discredited. It is, but let's not act like it isn't brought up nearly once a month every football season since 2008. All I'm saying is I don't envy Eagles fans defending Carson in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Maybe? Brady's already had a decade plus of success in different schemes with different coordinators and personnel. Wentz has not. Brady has proven over years and years of playing that he's valuable. Wentz has not. Last I checked MVP was an award for a single season. Since that is what you are discussing how would the one situation be any different than the other? If Foles getting to and winning an SB diminishes Wentz's value, how on Earth would the same not be true in regards to Brady and his backup(again speaking hypothetically about a single season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: Last I checked MVP was an award for a single season. Since that is what you are discussing how would the one situation be any different than the other? If Foles getting to and winning an SB diminishes Wentz's value, how on Earth would the same not be true in regards to Brady and his backup(again speaking hypothetically about a single season). I think he's saying that people know Brady's great, while Wentz is young and there isn't enough of a sample size on him yet to determine whether it's the team or him. So when Wentz went down and the Foles came in and led a comeback vs the Rams that day, then went 2-1 after (the loss being a meaningless game against the Cowboys), and then went on to make the SB (basically giving the Eagles a 5-1 record without a Wentz, and a pretty successful playful run), in the context of the MVP race it does make people take a step back and say "hmmm maybe it's not mostly Wentz". Especially since in the context of this race, the record was really the biggest advantage Wentz had over Brady before he went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, lancerman said: I think he's saying that people know Brady's great, while Wentz is young and there isn't enough of a sample size on him yet to determine whether it's the team or him. So when Wentz went down and the Foles came in and led a comeback vs the Rams that day, then went 2-1 after (the loss being a meaningless game against the Cowboys), and then went on to make the SB (basically giving the Eagles a 5-1 record without a Wentz, and a pretty successful playful run), in the context of the MVP race it does make people take a step back and say "hmmm maybe it's not mostly Wentz". Especially since in the context of this race, the record was really the biggest advantage Wentz had over Brady before he went down. I have no clue how prior greatness factors into an award for a single season accomplishment. If it did, Brady would win MVP every year and Wentz would legitimately not be in the running. If Brady was faced with the exact same situation you just mentioned(although not entirely accurate at all, accurate enough we can run with it), no one would doubt Brady's value to THAT team, where as because it happened to Wentz people doubt his value? If you think about it, it is pretty silly. Prior seasons accomplishments have nothing to do with the value you bring in a current season. If you are discussing perception fair enough, but Darth literally was discussing the MVP award: Quote I'm simply suggesting that since Foles is now playing well under Pederson's system as well, why would Wentz's MVP candidacy not take a hit as a result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: I have no clue how prior greatness factors into an award for a single season accomplishment. If it did, Brady would win MVP every year and Wentz would legitimately not be in the running. If Brady was faced with the exact same situation you just mentioned(although not entirely accurate at all, accurate enough we can run with it), no one would doubt Brady's value to THAT team, where as because it happened to Wentz people doubt his value? If you think about it, it is pretty silly. Prior seasons accomplishments have nothing to do with the value you bring in a current season. If you are discussing perception fair enough, but Darth literally was discussing the MVP award: I think that during this season one of the arguments against Wentz was that his team was one of the deepest teams outside of QB on both offense and defense and that was a bigger contributor to the team's success than him. Wentz also doesn't also have a long enough track record... like Brady... on different teams where you could give him in the benefit of the doubt and say his great play was the main reason. Then the fact that Foles made the SB with that team without him, kind of lends credence to the argument that it was more everyone else. This is relevant because Wentz's cases for MVP had more to do with the Eagles success. Brady's, Brown's, and Gurley's case really had to do with their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, lancerman said: I think that during this season one of the arguments against Wentz was that his team was one of the deepest teams outside of QB on both offense and defense and that was a bigger contributor to the team's success than him. Wentz also doesn't also have a long enough track record... like Brady... on different teams where you could give him in the benefit of the doubt and say his great play was the main reason. Then the fact that Foles made the SB with that team without him, kind of lends credence to the argument that it was more everyone else. This is relevant because Wentz's cases for MVP had more to do with the Eagles success. Brady's, Brown's, and Gurley's case really had to do with their numbers. Wentz also had great numbers... he didn't have the yards Brady had or some of the other stats, but he had the most TDs and the best passer rating on third down. So he had good numbers and at the time he went down had one more win than the Steelers and Pats. Now I agree, record had a lot to do with Wentz's MVP candidacy, but to paint the picture like he was ONLY in the MVP race because of the Eagles success is disingenuous. Also, playoff runs have nothing to do with the MVP award and Foles and the Eagles looked pretty awful weeks 15-17. So again I ask how the situations previously discussed would only affect Wentz and not Brady if the shoe was on the other foot. Quote I'm simply suggesting that since Foles is now playing well under Pederson's system as well, why would Wentz's MVP candidacy not take a hit as a result? Quote So when Wentz went down and the Foles came in and led a comeback vs the Rams that day, then went 2-1 after (the loss being a meaningless game against the Cowboys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles23 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 People need to relax with this narrative. Wentz would of dropped 30 on Atlanta. Foles went Super Saiyan against the Vikings with Wentz acting as a QB coach. Foles is inconsistent. That is why he's a backup QB. Let's hope he has 4 more quarters of his Super Saiyan form in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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