Alex Smith to be traded to Washington for 3rd round pick and CB Kendall Fuller; agrees to extension

[childofpudding]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

There is motivation to get a deal done.  Cousins wants long-term security, Washington wants a tangible asset they can use in 2018, and the team acquiring Cousins gets their franchise QB.  There's absolutely NO motivation for the Redskins and Cousins to drag it on.  None.

Do you think the market for Cousins would decline that steeply by April or May? Cousins could satisfy his grudge, severely limit WAS' flexibility in FA and still get his long-term deal.

I'm not really sure, just throwing it out there.

Edited February 1, 2018 by childofpudding

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm talking about in terms of when teams have to officially be under the cap.  You can negotiate a deal without actually having that kind of cap space.  IIRC, didn't the Dolphins have to clear a bunch of cap space to sign Ndamukong Suh?  I'm sure history is littered with situations like that.

There is motivation to get a deal done.  Cousins wants long-term security, Washington wants a tangible asset they can use in 2018, and the team acquiring Cousins gets their franchise QB.  There's absolutely NO motivation for the Redskins and Cousins to drag it on.  None.

As of now, WAS has $36M in cap space.  Tagging Cousins takes up $35M.   WAS has no wiggle room do to business.  They are hamstrung until Cousins agrees to a deal with another team.  He has no rush to do so as he is guaranteed $35M for 2018.  

The only thing that WAS gains is a pick a year earlier.....for the risk of not being able to use the $36M they would have in FA if they did not tag Cousins.

[CWood21]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Once he's tagged he's on the cap. Meaning 35m is on the cap, meaning the Redskins have no space to sign any of their own FA or any other outside FA. If Cousins sits on the tag unsigned (which he must sign to be dealt) the Redskins literally cannot even sign a draft pick. So on day 1 of FA, if he didn't sign the tag, the Skins are left with the choice of rescinding the tag or not doing a damn thing. He has plenty of leverage.

I get that.  LIS, there's a FULL week between when franchise tags close AND FA opens.  That's when the Redskins have to be under the cap.  As I've already pointed, the Redskins have enough cap space with minimal maneuvering needed in order to fit Kirk Cousins' franchise tag in.  That means when the franchise tag opens they effectively have the threat of franchising him available.  His franchise tag doesn't kick in until March 14th at 4 PM EST, because 2017 contracts don't expire until 4 PM that day.  That's 8 days from when the franchise tag period closes to when 2018 salaries hit the book.  Him signing that franchise tag before March 14th at 4 PM doesn't put an iota of pressure on the Redskins until March 14th at 4 PM EST.

LIS, it goes back to my point.  Do you think that Kirk Cousins is going to purposely ignore his long-term security in order to stick it to the Redskins?  Do you believe that the Redskins are going to hold out for some Godfather offer?  No.  There's enough motivation on both sides to get a deal done.

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

[Dashing202]

4 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Or Cousins can sign the tag and play for WAS and collect a cool $25 or $35M depending on the tag.  He likely then is a UFA in 2019.  1 year older, but a bit richer none the less

Yea but also lose hope on signing a big contract . Out of the NFL for a year and to do that unprofessionally cause of an ego?

would you sign him to a huge contract after doing that! .

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, childofpudding said:

Do you think the market for Cousins would decline that steeply by April or May? Cousins could severely limit WAS' flexibility in FA and still get his long-term deal.

I'm not really sure, just throwing it out there.

Cousins market isn't moving one way or the other.  There's no motivation for Cousins to hold out on the Redskins other than to stick it to them.  None.  So I propose this question, why would Kirk Cousins put off his long-term security just to stick it to the Redskins?

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Cousins market isn't moving one way or the other.  There's no motivation for Cousins to hold out on the Redskins other than to stick it to them.  None.  So I propose this question, why would Kirk Cousins put off his long-term security just to stick it to the Redskins?

Agreed...Cousins market will be there on March 14th and March 28th and likely beyond.

So Cousins puts off his long term deal from March 15th to April15th.  1 month to him means nothing, it means the whole UFA season for WAS

Edited February 1, 2018 by squire12

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

As of now, WAS has $36M in cap space.  Tagging Cousins takes up $35M.   WAS has no wiggle room do to business.  They are hamstrung until Cousins agrees to a deal with another team.  He has no rush to do so as he is guaranteed $35M for 2018.  

The only thing that WAS gains is a pick a year earlier.....for the risk of not being able to use the $36M they would have in FA if they did not tag Cousins.

I'm not sure what part of this is getting lost.  The Redskins don't need to have that cap flexibility until March 14th at 4 PM EST.  3 weeks prior, the tag period opens up.  That means the Redskins have 3 weeks to negotiate an amicable trade for both the Redskins and Kirk Cousins.  The only hesitation the Redskins MIGHT have is if they felt that Cousins was going to be vindictive and drag his feet to try and get back at the Redskins.  There's simply no reason to believe he's going to do that and pass up his long-term security.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I get that.  LIS, there's a FULL week between when franchise tags close AND FA opens.  That's when the Redskins have to be under the cap.  As I've already pointed, the Redskins have enough cap space with minimal maneuvering needed in order to fit Kirk Cousins' franchise tag in.  That means when the franchise tag opens they effectively have the threat of franchising him available.  His franchise tag doesn't kick in until March 14th at 4 PM EST, because 2017 contracts don't expire until 4 PM that day.  That's 8 days from when the franchise tag period closes to when 2018 salaries hit the book.  Him signing that franchise tag before March 14th at 4 PM doesn't put an iota of pressure on the Redskins until March 14th at 4 PM EST.

LIS, it goes back to my point.  Do you think that Kirk Cousins is going to purposely ignore his long-term security in order to stick it to the Redskins?  Do you believe that the Redskins are going to hold out for some Godfather offer?  No.  There's enough motivation on both sides to get a deal done.

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

I guess if they purge the roster of some contracts to create more cap space they'll have more wiggle room when tagging Cousins, but again, now we're talking cutting guys, hoping Cousins won't be pissed and sign the tag when a trade is agreed upon and you find someone willing to give you value in a prompt time.

Or you could simply do nothing and be guaranteed to net the highest comp pick in the 2019 Draft. Again I'm not even close to sold that isn't the smartest option.

[childofpudding]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Cousins market isn't moving one way or the other.  There's no motivation for Cousins to hold out on the Redskins other than to stick it to them.  None.  So I propose this question, why would Kirk Cousins put off his long-term security just to stick it to the Redskins?

If Cousin's market isn't moving, then him putting off his long-term security for a month (or 2 or 3) has no tangible effect on what he'll ultimately get paid. So he can stick it to the Redskins without any real consequence.

[squire12]

4 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

Yea but also lose hope on signing a big contract . Out of the NFL for a year and to do that unprofessionally cause of an ego?

would you sign him to a huge contract after doing that! .

Players hold out.  Players want more $$ and hold things against teams.  He would still be a sought after QB in 2019 if he were to go that route.

[Packerraymond]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure what part of this is getting lost.  The Redskins don't need to have that cap flexibility until March 14th at 4 PM EST.  3 weeks prior, the tag period opens up.  That means the Redskins have 3 weeks to negotiate an amicable trade for both the Redskins and Kirk Cousins.  The only hesitation the Redskins MIGHT have is if they felt that Cousins was going to be vindictive and drag his feet to try and get back at the Redskins.  There's simply no reason to believe he's going to do that and pass up his long-term security.

Or he wants to hit the FA market, it's not hard to understand. If he says no to a trade and won't sign the tag, the Redskins can either cancel their off-season, or rescind his tag and make him a FA. He has all the leverage to force his way into FA. It's simple.

[pwny]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure what part of this is getting lost.  The Redskins don't need to have that cap flexibility until March 14th at 4 PM EST.  3 weeks prior, the tag period opens up.  That means the Redskins have 3 weeks to negotiate an amicable trade for both the Redskins and Kirk Cousins.  The only hesitation the Redskins MIGHT have is if they felt that Cousins was going to be vindictive and drag his feet to try and get back at the Redskins.  There's simply no reason to believe he's going to do that and pass up his long-term security.

The date they need it does not matter.

As soon as they offer the contract, he’s on the books. He doesn’t have to sign, they still have to allot the money for him. Meaning they get no time to negotiate unless he signs, which he won’t, because he doesn’t have to.

Washington can go ahead and hold that 35 million in their pocket if they want, but congrats on losing out on all those players they could have signed.

[CWood21]

Just now, squire12 said:

So Cousins puts off his long term deal from March 15th to April15th.  1 month to him means nothing, it means the whole UFA season for WAS

I really don't think you're getting what I'm saying.  Let me simplify it.

 February 20th - Franchise Tag Opens
March 6th (at 4 PM EST) - Franchise Tag Closes

During this period, the Redskins can effectively go around to 31 other franchises and say we're franchising Kirk Cousins, if you want to negotiate a long-term deal with us then you'll have to negotiate a compensation package that they'll take.  Since Kirk Cousins is still technically under his 2017 contract, he's not allowed to discuss FA deal with any team.

March 12th-14th - FA may negotiate contracts, but not officially sign them.

This is the first time that Kirk Cousins can negotiate with other teams, which means he'll get an idea of what his FA market is.  Prior to this point, the only negotiations he can make are ones which the Redskins sign off on.  So if the Broncos negotiate a trade package for him, they're the only team who can negotiate with Cousins from March 6th until March 12th.

[squire12]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure what part of this is getting lost.  The Redskins don't need to have that cap flexibility until March 14th at 4 PM EST.  3 weeks prior, the tag period opens up.  That means the Redskins have 3 weeks to negotiate an amicable trade for both the Redskins and Kirk Cousins.  The only hesitation the Redskins MIGHT have is if they felt that Cousins was going to be vindictive and drag his feet to try and get back at the Redskins.  There's simply no reason to believe he's going to do that and pass up his long-term security.

WAS and DEN/JAX or another team can negotiate the terms of a pick/player compensation all they want.  It still comes down to Cousins agreeing to a deal with said team when he chooses to do so.  

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I guess if they purge the roster of some contracts to create more cap space they'll have more wiggle room when tagging Cousins, but again, now we're talking cutting guys, hoping Cousins won't be pissed and sign the tag when a trade is agreed upon and you find someone willing to give you value in a prompt time.

Or you could simply do nothing and be guaranteed to net the highest comp pick in the 2019 Draft. Again I'm not even close to sold that isn't the smartest option.

As I've said, they've got enough cap space to swallow his franchise tag.  It just hampers their maneuverability.  And I personally believe that 3 weeks is more than enough time to hammer out an amicable deal.  Of course Cousins is going to be pissed, he got franchised again.  That doesn't means that a deal can't be made.  The reason a deal will be made is because the Redskins aren't paying Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins a combined $50M.  That leverage wasn't there in previous years.