Alex Smith to be traded to Washington for 3rd round pick and CB Kendall Fuller; agrees to extension

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

You're missing my whole argument.  My argument that the only way this is an issue is if Kirk Cousins decides to give one last F you to the Redskins and hold out.  Why would he do that? 

Because he hates the Redskins that much.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

You are forgetting the 3rd in the process.   Cousins would need to agree to a long term deal with the new team in order for WAS to get the compensation from the new team.   In the recent Alex Smith to WAS, CLE offered a better draft pick package, but would not do a long term deal with Smith, and WAS would, thus KC took the WAS deal

You're missing the variable, Kendall Fuller, as part of the equation.  We also don't know which 2nd round pick the Browns were offering.  I'm skeptical the Browns offered 33 or 35 for a one-year rental, and Fuller and the Redskins 3rd >>> 53 or whatever their other 2nd they own is.

[Jakuvious]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

You're missing my whole argument.  My argument that the only way this is an issue is if Kirk Cousins decides to give one last F you to the Redskins and hold out.  Why would he do that? 

Because he wants to go to free agency, not get traded. It's a really simply line of reasoning. Would you not be willing to wait a little while if it meant you can decide exactly who you work for and where you do it?

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

The only reason Kirk has to sign the tag is if the Skins work out a trade with the team he wanted to sign with in FA most and they've offered him a deal that is what he expected on the FA market.

Anything other than that scenario occurs and there isn't a single reason why he should sign that tag.

Why do you think a team trying to acquire Cousins is going to try and force Cousins to sign a below-market deal?  The negotiating issue is going to come via the Redskins and the team acquiring Cousins.  Not Cousins and the team acquiring Cousins.

[squire12]

Just now, CWood21 said:

They're not holding him hostage.  As we've already discussed ad nauseam, Kirk Cousins has more leverage than the Redskins, which means the Redskins will blink first.  Do you think that the Redskins won't come to an amicable in the 3 weeks before FA opens that nets the Redskins compensation and sends Cousins to a team he wants to play for?  I don't have any reason to believe that Cousins is going to hold the Redskins hostage.  Maybe I'm more optimistic than you.

Because Cousins could stick it to WAS should be enough of a reason to not risk sacrificing the ability to use the $35M in cap space the tag would take up on UFA from the beginning.  

Would he stick it to them....I have no idea, but the gain is not worth the risk.

Cousins has not been happy with the WAS FO after being tagged 2x and feeling like he has been low balled on a long term contract.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

Because he wants to go to free agency, not get traded. It's a really simply line of reasoning. Would you not be willing to wait a little while if it meant you can decide exactly who you work for and where you do it?

I'm struggling to find a good analogy, but the best one I can find is getting a realtor involved when you're selling a house.  It's not like Cousins is going to want to go to a team that the Redskins will flat out refuse to trade to.  Dallas has Dak Prescott, Philadelphia has Carson Wentz, and New York has Eli Manning and poised to use their first round pick on a QB.  The market for Cousins isn't going to change one iota unless Washington pushes the issue and asks for some outrageous return.  That isn't going to happen, unless Dan Snyder loses his mind.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

Because Cousins could stick it to WAS should be enough of a reason to not risk sacrificing the ability to use the $35M in cap space the tag would take up on UFA from the beginning.  

Would he stick it to them....I have no idea, but the gain is not worth the risk.

Cousins has not been happy with the WAS FO after being tagged 2x and feeling like he has been low balled on a long term contract.

He could.  Key word being could.  But there's no reason to believe that he will.  If you've got something a bit more substantial other than a hypothetical, I think it's best we just chalk this up to agreeing to disagree.

[pwny]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You're missing my whole argument.  My argument that the only way this is an issue is if Kirk Cousins decides to give one last F you to the Redskins and hold out.  Why would he do that? 

So if Cousins wants to play for the Jaguars for let’s say $25M per year, and the Jaguars want to give him $25M worth of resources, but have to knock down the price because they had to send a 2nd to Washington and need to recoup that value, he should just be happy with getting $22M/year from the Jags?

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Why do you think a team trying to acquire Cousins is going to try and force Cousins to sign a below-market deal?  The negotiating issue is going to come via the Redskins and the team acquiring Cousins.  Not Cousins and the team acquiring Cousins.

So lets say it is Denver that Cousins wants to play for.  They discuss a long term deal.  He scoffs at it and WAS is stuck with the $35M and loses out on FA.  They then rescind the tag and Cousins is a FA and signs a deal with Denver.   What exactly did WAS gain in this process?  What did they lose?  What did Cousins lose?  What did Cousins gain?

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Why do you think a team trying to acquire Cousins is going to try and force Cousins to sign a below-market deal?  The negotiating issue is going to come via the Redskins and the team acquiring Cousins.  Not Cousins and the team acquiring Cousins.

I didn't say anything about below average. I guarantee if he sees FA he will get a higher deal than if he were tagged and dealt. That's just common sense. Competition and greater demand drive prices up. 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, iPwn said:

So if Cousins wants to play for the Jaguars for let’s say $25M per year, and the Jaguars want to give him $25M worth of resources, but have to knock down the price because they had to send a 2nd to Washington and need to recoup that value, he should just be happy with getting $22M/year from the Jags?

A 2nd round pick is a small price to pay in order to sign a long-term contract for a franchise QB.  If the Jaguars were that infatuated with Cousins, they're going to sign Cousins to that contract with the 2nd round pick being the price of doing business.  It's no different than the Alex Smith trade.  The Redskins gave up a 3rd round pick and Kendall Fuller for the right to negotiate a long-term deal with Alex Smith.

EDIT: The difference is the Chiefs could have held onto Alex Smith next year, because Patrick Mahomes is making peanuts.

[childofpudding]

Just now, CWood21 said:

He could.  Key word being could.  But there's no reason to believe that he will.  If you've got something a bit more substantial other than a hypothetical, I think it's best we just chalk this up to agreeing to disagree.

Sure, but isn't the whole conversation a hypothetical? Washington could tag him. Cousins could sign it. Cousins could not sign it.

The way the Redskins kind of came out and **** on Cousins last offseason, I wouldn't be that surprised if he stuck it to them if he had the opportunity, rather than playing nice so they can get a draft pick for him. From Cousins' perspective, the Redskins have been sticking it to him for two years. Why wouldn't he return the favor if he had a chance?

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He could.  Key word being could.  But there's no reason to believe that he will.  If you've got something a bit more substantial other than a hypothetical, I think it's best we just chalk this up to agreeing to disagree.

Franchise 2x

Not offering him a contract that he feels he is worth

Franchise tagged a 3rd time.

Not sure how much more reasoning that this.   These are the facts of the process as we are discussing them.  It is pretty evident from the dealings that Cousins does not look favorably on the WAS front office and how they have treated him.  

 

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He could.  Key word being could.  But there's no reason to believe that he will.  If you've got something a bit more substantial other than a hypothetical, I think it's best we just chalk this up to agreeing to disagree.

He wants to hit FA. There's your non hypothetical situation I've probably said 30 times now.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

So lets say it is Denver that Cousins wants to play for.  They discuss a long term deal.  He scoffs at it and WAS is stuck with the $35M and loses out on FA.  They then rescind the tag and Cousins is a FA and signs a deal with Denver.   What exactly did WAS gain in this process?  What did they lose?  What did Cousins lose?  What did Cousins gain?

What makes you think that Denver would offer a different contract via trade than in FA?  If they believe he's their franchise QB, they're going to move heaven and earth to get him in Denver.  The only way that it doesn't happen is if Washington asks for some outrageous return.  Given Washington's need to open up cap space, that's not likely.