Doug Farrar" Redskins improved with Alex smith "

[Woz]

Just now, Slappy Mc said:

The problem that I have is that you look at this situation like Kirk is the victim. Is Kirk completely to blame for everything that is going on with his contract? Absolutely not. Should he shoulder some of the responsibility for "his role" in this on-going contract stand-off? Absolutely. No one is ever going to absolve the Redskins management for the catastrophic mess they have made of this organization, but I do believe this situation isn't ALL on them either. 

He's by no means a victim. He's a guy who took was offered to him, made the best of it, and now looks to capitalize off it.

I'm going to put the majority of the failure on the front office. If they wanted him, they could have made a deal to get it done in 2016. If they didn't want him, they likely could have traded him and gotten something back for him either in late 2016 or 2017.

They didn't do that and kept talking about extending Cousins. Then, when the trade deadline passes again in 2017, Bruce Allen trots comments how they offered Cousins this amazing contract but didn't sign it. Insiders then get a look at the deal and the comments and laughed at it.

But no, Kirk isn't a victim. He made his decisions based on what he was offered both in terms of the tags and the long term deals.

Just now, Slappy Mc said:

The Redskins offered him fair market value for what he was, a Joe Flacco Tier quarterback. Whether or not you want to play the "price of the quarterback goes up every year" card is up to you. But IMO the contract that was offered was absolutely fair. Over 20M/Year for a Quarterback that has never won a playoff game is fair if you ask me. When you brought up Joe Flaccos deal (I believe in a different thread), you have to understand that contract was given to him AFTER he WON the SB. Kirk, with all due respect to what he has done here, has done NOTHING to substantiate a highest player contract. 

What has Matthew Stafford done? He currently has the highest AAV contract in the league.

So, yes, the price of the quarterback goes up every year.

If you believe that Kirk should have accepted a contract based on a four year old comp, okay. If I'm his agent and I have a fiduciary responsibility to my client, then I tell him to turn that down.

3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I will bet my years salary that at the time Kirk signs a new deal, it will be for higher than Matt Staffords deal. I don't feel that Cousins is worth the highest paid contract in NFL history, but plenty of teams will. 

No chance I'm taking that bet.

And if Kirk gets that top of the market deal, will you at least concede that the Redskins were lowballing him repeatedly?

[Slappy Mc]

Just now, Woz said:

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

Personally, I'm ecstatic that Cousins is gone & that we have Smith.

That makes one of us.

I'm not ecstatic to see Cousins go, but come on Woz. Smith is going to be a reliable journeymen quarterback that will do good things for us. He absolutely is the best quarterback we could have got (sans Cousins). 

4 minutes ago, Woz said:

Not at 35 he couldn't. Would Smith have gotten a good deal? Yes, he was coming off a career year. But he wouldn't get 4y/$94M/$71M guaranteed.

You continue to throw out information that you just clearly can't prove. Your opinion is that Alex Smith couldn't garner this type of contract elsewhere (when teams offered more compensation for a trade than we did) is just silly IMO.

Look you are upset about Cousins getting away, I get it. I am too. You are upset that we traded for Alex Smith. Okay thats your prerogative too. The fact remains, Alex Smith is this teams QB. His contract is what it is. You can either accept those facts and move forward or sit in a pool of negativity and hate everything that is the Redskins. 

[Dashing202]

Kirk cousins is overrated .

Smith overrated

lets agree on that 

[Dashing202]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

Unfortunately, not only are you right, but if they tag Cousins, they won't even be able to overpay because the cap will be locked up.

Out of respect we don't know what smith can do yet in a redskins uniform.

[Woz]

Just now, Dashing202 said:

Out of respect it's only 17 mil this up coming season. Than the 23 mil comes into effect.

Yes because that is the final year of his previous deal.

1 minute ago, Dashing202 said:

We probably release him in year three .

Depends solely on when the bonuses come due. If I had to guess, his 2019 and 2010 salaries are fully guaranteed, probably along with a roster bonus or two mixed in. 2021 would be the earliest he could likely be released. So go start scouting those high school seniors!

2 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

again smith isn't trash and obviously it was reported teams had interest in him. He's someone fans have said sucks or average including my self . I am telling you the past 6 days I've looked and ask fans about this dude . A lot say good things about him, anayslysts sugget he's underrated .

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe his 2017 year was in fact a breakout year (in the twelfth year of his career). Maybe he takes us to the promised land. If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong and eat crow.

The track record, however, seems to be more on my side.

4 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

you don't just win games with an all around squad . You can have that and still suck if your qb isn't Good. Remember redskins in 2004? Had a top ten D, a good running back , and we had Coles and Cooley . Still finished 6-10 cause of how poorly our qb was .

And made the playoffs with essentially the same roster the next year.

That's part of the joys/perils of the NFL: any given Sunday and all that.

6 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

And he's 34 but so what . Rivers-Ryan-brees-Brady- lol are all in there 30s.

You're right, just comparing the age of a player to a group of Super Bowl MVPs (and Rivers (ouch)) ... means what now?

My point with Smith vs. Cousins is that I don't think Smith is any better than Cousins if you look at their careers and not just 2017. So if they are the same (and I think Smith is less than Cousins skill-wise), then we just swapped one guy who is functionally equivalent for another who is five years older. That means he's more likely to get hurt and take longer to recover (comes with getting older ... trust me *sigh*).

How is that a good thing at the Redskins' single most important position?

10 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

even josh McCown at 39! Had a career year .

Damn, even I wouldn't have tried to comp Smith to McCown ...

 

[Woz]

10 minutes ago, rizzy said:

Even if the Redskins decided well give you 30 million a year I think he thinks maybe someone will offer more.

Had the Redskins actually offered $30M AAV and he turned it down, do you think they wouldn't have released the details of that contract in a heartbeat? Like I said, when they released the contract details last year in Bruce Allen's statement, they never mentioned the total value of the contract or how much was guaranteed as part of the total value (assuming it was $53M on $110M, that's only 48%). The Redskins tried to spin it using numbers that looked good on paper but really didn't mean much when you worked it out.

[aceinthehouse]

Fellow skins fans act like we let go a 2-time SB winner & Mvp.

Cousins worked well in the system used by our coach, Jay Gruden.

But it obviously, wasn't good enough.

Hopefully, Smith can surpass what Cousins did here.

and that bar set is a 9-7 season.

I'm c'mon guys, Cousins Is no Chevy truck. (like the commercial)

More like a Chevy Malibu.

Lets see if Alex can raise the bar a little.

I think he can.

But we need to get him a little help, so it will make his transition, a little easier.

[Dashing202]

Lol kirks gets credit for having three wideouts go 1000 yards. But smith doesn't get credit at all for giving kelce and hill 1000 yards . 

Thats insane .

[rizzy]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

Had the Redskins actually offered $30M AAV and he turned it down, do you think they wouldn't have released the details of that contract in a heartbeat? Like I said, when they released the contract details last year in Bruce Allen's statement, they never mentioned the total value of the contract or how much was guaranteed as part of the total value (assuming it was $53M on $110M, that's only 48%). The Redskins tried to spin it using numbers that looked good on paper but really didn't mean much when you worked it out.

I don't think they did no, I was just saying even if they did THIS YEAR I don't think he would have accepted it.

[Slappy Mc]

10 minutes ago, Woz said:

No chance I'm taking that bet.

And if Kirk gets that top of the market deal, will you at least concede that the Redskins were lowballing him repeatedly?

Absolutely, thats how negotiations are started. There is always a low offer by the payer and a high offer for the payee. In this situation however, no negotiation has happened. 

The refusal to negotiate is the part I feel you are missing. Kirk repeatedly said to the public he was willing to negotiate a long term deal with the Redskins and then no negotiation happened. It was "if you want me, tag me." 

I do think Kirk deserves more than the offer that was made to him, but not by much. He probably deserves a 25M/Yr contract, but he will get over 30M. 

[Dashing202]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

Yes because that is the final year of his previous deal.

Depends solely on when the bonuses come due. If I had to guess, his 2019 and 2010 salaries are fully guaranteed, probably along with a roster bonus or two mixed in. 2021 would be the earliest he could likely be released. So go start scouting those high school seniors!

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe his 2017 year was in fact a breakout year (in the twelfth year of his career). Maybe he takes us to the promised land. If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong and eat crow.

The track record, however, seems to be more on my side.

And made the playoffs with essentially the same roster the next year.

That's part of the joys/perils of the NFL: any given Sunday and all that.

You're right, just comparing the age of a player to a group of Super Bowl MVPs (and Rivers (ouch)) ... means what now?

My point with Smith vs. Cousins is that I don't think Smith is any better than Cousins if you look at their careers and not just 2017. So if they are the same (and I think Smith is less than Cousins skill-wise), then we just swapped one guy who is functionally equivalent for another who is five years older. That means he's more likely to get hurt and take longer to recover (comes with getting older ... trust me *sigh*).

How is that a good thing at the Redskins' single most important position?

Damn, even I wouldn't have tried to comp Smith to McCown ...

 

You also have to realize this woz

smih has had way more different coordinators than Kirk cousins .

Smith was better than Kirk in 2017. Kirk was better in 2016-2015 that's facts . 

But we don't know how smith will be with the redskins . IF we make the playoff with smith you get someone who steps up . I'm surprised smith hasn't been back to a nfl championship game . 

[Woz]

6 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'm not ecstatic to see Cousins go, but come on Woz. Smith is going to be a reliable journeymen quarterback that will do good things for us. He absolutely is the best quarterback we could have got (sans Cousins). 

We're now admitting that Smith is a journeyman quarterback? And that we traded quite a bit of value to get said journeyman? And we should be happy sending said journeyman a 75%+ guaranteed contract extension?

Honestly, I'd rather have kept our third and Fuller, tried for Smith in free agency when he was cut, and if we failed, draft a QB in the first of this draft.

10 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Your opinion is that Alex Smith couldn't garner this type of contract elsewhere (when teams offered more compensation for a trade than we did) is just silly IMO.

Compensation to Chiefs != compensation to Alex Smith.

Also, the teams that bid on Smith only did so at the last minute when it was revealed (most likely by the Chiefs) what Washington offered. So, while I'm sure they wanted to get him, it was a late charge.

11 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Look you are upset about Cousins getting away, I get it. I am too. You are upset that we traded for Alex Smith. Okay thats your prerogative too. The fact remains, Alex Smith is this teams QB. His contract is what it is. You can either accept those facts and move forward or sit in a pool of negativity and hate everything that is the Redskins. 

Actually, I'm not upset about Cousins getting away. When they didn't get it done last year, I assumed 2017 would be the last season Cousins was a Redskin.

Had the Redskins signed Smith as a free agent, I would have been okay with it because as you said, he was probably the best available. I hate that we traded for him, and I certainly don't get the contract extension. However, as you say, it is what it is. I've made my peace with the fact that the front office scrambled to try and save their jobs to the detriment of the franchise.

What really boggles my mind is that people are trying to tell me that this is an improvement for the long term health of this franchise.

[Dashing202]

3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Absolutely, thats how negotiations are started. There is always a low offer by the payer and a high offer for the payee. In this situation however, no negotiation has happened. 

The refusal to negotiate is the part I feel you are missing. Kirk repeatedly said to the public he was willing to negotiate a long term deal with the Redskins and then no negotiation happened. It was "if you want me, tag me." 

I do think Kirk deserves more than the offer that was made to him, but not by much. He probably deserves a 25M/Yr contract, but he will get over 30M. 

Kirk done some good things here . But 30mil a year is insanely to much . I know Danny's rich but man for one player .

[Dashing202]

Just now, Woz said:

We're now admitting that Smith is a journeyman quarterback? And that we traded quite a bit of value to get said journeyman? And we should be happy sending said journeyman a 75%+ guaranteed contract extension?

Honestly, I'd rather have kept our third and Fuller, tried for Smith in free agency when he was cut, and if we failed, draft a QB in the first of this draft.

Compensation to Chiefs != compensation to Alex Smith.

Also, the teams that bid on Smith only did so at the last minute when it was revealed (most likely by the Chiefs) what Washington offered. So, while I'm sure they wanted to get him, it was a late charge.

Actually, I'm not upset about Cousins getting away. When they didn't get it done last year, I assumed 2017 would be the last season Cousins was a Redskin.

Had the Redskins signed Smith as a free agent, I would have been okay with it because as you said, he was probably the best available. I hate that we traded for him, and I certainly don't get the contract extension. However, as you say, it is what it is. I've made my peace with the fact that the front office scrambled to try and save their jobs to the detriment of the franchise.

What really boggles my mind is that people are trying to tell me that this is an improvement for the long term health of this franchise.

I agree with you.

but do you really trust the redskins in drafting a player lol. If that makes any sense .

[Woz]

3 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Fellow skins fans act like we let go a 2-time SB winner & Mvp.

Cousins worked well in the system used by our coach, Jay Gruden.

And Smith worked well in the system used by Andy Reid.

3 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Hopefully, Smith can surpass what Cousins did here.

and that bar set is a 9-7 season.

We're already walking back 11-5?

3 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

Lets see if Alex can raise the bar a little.

I think he can.

But we need to get him a little help, so it will make his transition, a little easier.

That's the thing: by trading assets to get Smith they made the transition HARDER. We started from a weaker talent base, made it weaker, and hindered are ability to fix things. So, why should we be celebrating this?