Doug Farrar" Redskins improved with Alex smith "

[Dashing202]

1 hour ago, Slateman said:

They gave Alex Smith 71 million guaranteed.  They're still overpaying. At this point, they have no choice.

Slateman , quarterbacks are getting more expensive either way.

Like alex smith is a good quarterback . He threw nice passes to Hill and Kelce . Ask the chiefs fans .

[Slateman]

9 hours ago, Dashing202 said:

Slateman , quarterbacks are getting more expensive either way.

Like alex smith is a good quarterback . He threw nice passes to Hill and Kelce . Ask the chiefs fans .

Alex Smith is the definition of an average QB. Giving a 35 year old QB a guaranteed 71 million is the definition of an overpay.

And because of this dysfunction in the front office, it he Redskins want good players in free agency. We'll HAVE to overpay. No one is going to take a lesser deal to come here. No one is going to choose Washington over another team if the deals are even remotely similar.

[Woz]

17 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Woz, I have no idea where you thought at any point Kirk was going to sign a long term deal with this franchise. For someone that seems so in tune with what is going on, you can't take off your Kirk-shades to see that he shined us on for two years.

Had we offered a $20M AAV contract in 2016 or a $25M AAV contract in 2017, I do believe that he would have signed here. The Redskins never offered that, so he decided to play on the tags.

Again, why is this all Cousins' fault? The Redskins thought they could get a bargain and tried to get him on the cheap. He didn't accept it, but I do think he believed if he proved in 2016 that 2015 wasn't a fluke, that he would get rewarded. That didn't happen. Once the 2017 franchise tag was applied and the Redskins sent their first lowball offer again, I think Cousins and his team said "okay, they're not serious ... let's play it out and go somewhere else in 2018."

So, yes, I honestly do believe that he could have and would have signed here prior to April 2017 had the Redskins actually negotiated for where his value was. After April of last year, no, he was gone. At the time, I hoped a deal would get done but I was very dubious it would have happened.

17 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Everything Kirk has done points to him wanted to be THE highest paid, not one of the highest. He took two franchise tags, going from less than 1M/Year to an average of 22M/Year and it wasn't good enough.

First off, he did not "take" a franchise tag. He was assigned them. During the negotiations on the first tag of $19M, he was offered a contract that supposedly had an AAV of $16M. With the $24M tag, he got a $22M AAV. So, while his compensation blossomed in those two years, that was due to the restrictions that were placed upon him by the franchise tags. Those were the cost of doing business for the Redskins. Cousins had no way of changing those values.

Second, why is Cousins supposed to seek less than what the market will bear for him? If he can make himself the highest paid QB, why is that his fault? Keep in mind, the Redskins could have probably offered what they offered to Alex Smith and kept Cousins. But they didn't. So he's walking.

17 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

He had contract offers that paid him extremely well, but he wasn't going to be the highest paid. He details that him and his agent thought his best interest was to sign the tag and play on it each year. There was no counter offer. He accepted the sizable pay check knowing that at some point the cost was going to be too high and he could get out.

While I agree with you that he decided that playing on the tag was the better decision for him and that he was going to leave, I disagree that it was solely about the money. It was more about respect. The contracts offered to him along with the talk the front office wanted him to prove it wasn't a fluke and getting his name wrong ... all of this added up to the fact the Washington Redskins did not respect his value and what he was doing for him. He wants to feel wanted by the team. He wants to be thought of as "the man." The fact that a sizable minority of this fanbase constantly tears him apart for this mistake or that one probably didn't help.

So, when he signs with a new team, it may or may not be the highest contract. But it will be near the top of the market, because he wants to feel respected.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Slateman said:

Alex Smith is the definition of an average QB. Giving a 35 year old QB a guaranteed 71 million is the definition of an overpay.

And because of this dysfunction in the front office, it he Redskins want good players in free agency. We'll HAVE to overpay. No one is going to take a lesser deal to come here. No one is going to choose Washington over another team if the deals are even remotely similar.

Unfortunately, not only are you right, but if they tag Cousins, they won't even be able to overpay because the cap will be locked up.

[aceinthehouse]

Personally, I'm ecstatic that Cousins is gone & that we have Smith.

We have a QB that truly wants to be here. He not only was cool with being traded here, he signed a long term deal to boot & it wasn't some record breaking deal.

The funny thing is....the money Cousins wants, Alex could have demanded on the open market as a Free Agent.

He helped turn around a 2-14 team to be a consistent Playoff contender, immediately! He also won Playoffs games as well.

If you want to credit Andy Reid, the Chiefs talent or whatever for Alex Smith's success? Go ahead, but the fact remains that this info is true.

Cousins not only did not win a Playoff game, but his team as a whole declined record wise, from yr to yr.

Sure injuries played a huge part, but the chiefs had them too. I saw the Chiefs lose Eric Berry half way through the season among others.

Yes, they almost missed out on the playoffs because of it, but they didn't.

In fact, the huge Denver game in the finale? Smith steps up & played awesome and won that game. Which was a huge game.

Do you think Cousins wins that game?

Hell no! He folds like a tent & probably has his worse game of the yr.

And he wants more money, than Alex Smith??

Please?

I say good riddance!

[rizzy]

37 minutes ago, Woz said:

Had we offered a $20M AAV contract in 2016 or a $25M AAV contract in 2017, I do believe that he would have signed here. The Redskins never offered that, so he decided to play on the tags.

Again, why is this all Cousins' fault? The Redskins thought they could get a bargain and tried to get him on the cheap. He didn't accept it, but I do think he believed if he proved in 2016 that 2015 wasn't a fluke, that he would get rewarded. That didn't happen. Once the 2017 franchise tag was applied and the Redskins sent their first lowball offer again, I think Cousins and his team said "okay, they're not serious ... let's play it out and go somewhere else in 2018."

So, yes, I honestly do believe that he could have and would have signed here prior to April 2017 had the Redskins actually negotiated for where his value was. After April of last year, no, he was gone. At the time, I hoped a deal would get done but I was very dubious it would have happened.

First off, he did not "take" a franchise tag. He was assigned them. During the negotiations on the first tag of $19M, he was offered a contract that supposedly had an AAV of $16M. With the $24M tag, he got a $22M AAV. So, while his compensation blossomed in those two years, that was due to the restrictions that were placed upon him by the franchise tags. Those were the cost of doing business for the Redskins. Cousins had no way of changing those values.

Second, why is Cousins supposed to seek less than what the market will bear for him? If he can make himself the highest paid QB, why is that his fault? Keep in mind, the Redskins could have probably offered what they offered to Alex Smith and kept Cousins. But they didn't. So he's walking.

While I agree with you that he decided that playing on the tag was the better decision for him and that he was going to leave, I disagree that it was solely about the money. It was more about respect. The contracts offered to him along with the talk the front office wanted him to prove it wasn't a fluke and getting his name wrong ... all of this added up to the fact the Washington Redskins did not respect his value and what he was doing for him. He wants to feel wanted by the team. He wants to be thought of as "the man." The fact that a sizable minority of this fanbase constantly tears him apart for this mistake or that one probably didn't help.

So, when he signs with a new team, it may or may not be the highest contract. But it will be near the top of the market, because he wants to feel respected.

Kirk wasn't re-signing here for any amount of money his father event said so. "They could have made him the highest paid player in NFL history and he wouldn't have signed"

[Woz]

1 hour ago, rizzy said:

Kirk wasn't re-signing here for any amount of money his father event said so. "They could have made him the highest paid player in NFL history and he wouldn't have signed"

When was this? The event a few weeks ago? At that point, yes, I agree with that. The bridges had been burned by that point. I'm not sure that it was still true in early 2017 and I would be floored if it were true in 2016.

[MikeT14]

Can't wait  for ace's "The Redskins are going 12-4" thread in NFLG next season. 

[rizzy]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

When was this? The event a few weeks ago? At that point, yes, I agree with that. The bridges had been burned by that point. I'm not sure that it was still true in early 2017 and I would be floored if it were true in 2016.

It was in the summer before the season.

 

 

[MKnight82]

10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Can't wait  for ace's "The Redskins are going 12-4" thread in NFLG next season. 

Alex Smith will throw for 5,000 yards thread.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

Personally, I'm ecstatic that Cousins is gone & that we have Smith.

That makes one of us.

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

We have a QB that truly wants to be here. He not only was cool with being traded here, he signed a long term deal to boot & it wasn't some record breaking deal.

Because he was 35 years old and got a ridiculously huge extension that he almost certainly would not have gotten anywhere else.

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

The funny thing is....the money Cousins wants, Alex could have demanded on the open market as a Free Agent.

Not at 35 he couldn't. Would Smith have gotten a good deal? Yes, he was coming off a career year. But he wouldn't get 4y/$94M/$71M guaranteed.

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

He helped turn around a 2-14 team to be a consistent Playoff contender, immediately! He also won Playoffs games as well.

If you're talking about the Chiefs, I would put the blame of 2-14 on Romeo Crennel and the majority of the Chiefs turnaround on Andy Reid.

As for the Chiefs, he won a playoff game for them. Singular. Is that one more than Cousins won? Yes. But let's not act like it was some great feat to beat the 2015 Houston Texans.

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

If you want to credit Andy Reid, the Chiefs talent or whatever for Alex Smith's success? Go ahead, but the fact remains that this info is true.

Okay ... so, if it was the fact that Alex Smith's success with the Chiefs was due to the talent around him and/or Andy Reid, how does this help the Redskins? We have neither of those things.

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

Cousins not only did not win a Playoff game, but his team as a whole declined record wise, from yr to yr.

Again, if we're going to compare apples-to-apples, the talent base here (in particular on the defense) is much less than what the Chiefs have. Do I need to go back and run down the list of games that the Redskins lost with Cousins under center that is almost solely due to defensive failures?

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

Sure injuries played a huge part, but the chiefs had them too. I saw the Chiefs lose Eric Berry half way through the season among others.

Number of players on Chiefs' IR at end of season: 10
Number of players on Redskins' IR at end of season: 19

Was there a game in which Alex Smith played where he had just one lineman from the season's start protecting him?

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

In fact, the huge Denver game in the finale? Smith steps up & played awesome and won that game. Which was a huge game.

Do you think Cousins wins that game?

Hell no! He folds like a tent & probably has his worse game of the yr.

Ah, cherry picking games again. How I love it ...

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

And he wants more money, than Alex Smith??

Please?

I say good riddance!

Because he's a better quarterback, he should.

 

Look, you don't like him. That's fine. We'll agree to disagree there. But there's no scenario where you can convince me that A) Alex Smith will play as well as Kirk Cousins did here or B) trading for Smith (and giving up an up-and-coming player and a pick) and giving him a four year extension that right now looks like it is north of 75% guaranteed was a good idea.

[Slappy Mc]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

Had we offered a $20M AAV contract in 2016 or a $25M AAV contract in 2017, I do believe that he would have signed here. The Redskins never offered that, so he decided to play on the tags.

Again, why is this all Cousins' fault? The Redskins thought they could get a bargain and tried to get him on the cheap. He didn't accept it, but I do think he believed if he proved in 2016 that 2015 wasn't a fluke, that he would get rewarded. That didn't happen. Once the 2017 franchise tag was applied and the Redskins sent their first lowball offer again, I think Cousins and his team said "okay, they're not serious ... let's play it out and go somewhere else in 2018."

So, yes, I honestly do believe that he could have and would have signed here prior to April 2017 had the Redskins actually negotiated for where his value was. After April of last year, no, he was gone. At the time, I hoped a deal would get done but I was very dubious it would have happened.

I think that is where we were all duped by Kirk. I absolutely thought that at some point he would consider a contract extension and while he repeated told people that was still an option, it wasn't. 

The problem that I have is that you look at this situation like Kirk is the victim. Is Kirk completely to blame for everything that is going on with his contract? Absolutely not. Should he shoulder some of the responsibility for "his role" in this on-going contract stand-off? Absolutely. No one is ever going to absolve the Redskins management for the catastrophic mess they have made of this organization, but I do believe this situation isn't ALL on them either. 

The Redskins offered him fair market value for what he was, a Joe Flacco Tier quarterback. Whether or not you want to play the "price of the quarterback goes up every year" card is up to you. But IMO the contract that was offered was absolutely fair. Over 20M/Year for a Quarterback that has never won a playoff game is fair if you ask me. When you brought up Joe Flaccos deal (I believe in a different thread), you have to understand that contract was given to him AFTER he WON the SB. Kirk, with all due respect to what he has done here, has done NOTHING to substantiate a highest player contract. 

2 hours ago, Woz said:

First off, he did not "take" a franchise tag. He was assigned them. During the negotiations on the first tag of $19M, he was offered a contract that supposedly had an AAV of $16M. With the $24M tag, he got a $22M AAV. So, while his compensation blossomed in those two years, that was due to the restrictions that were placed upon him by the franchise tags. Those were the cost of doing business for the Redskins. Cousins had no way of changing those values.

Second, why is Cousins supposed to seek less than what the market will bear for him? If he can make himself the highest paid QB, why is that his fault? Keep in mind, the Redskins could have probably offered what they offered to Alex Smith and kept Cousins. But they didn't. So he's walking.

He absolutely "took" the franchise tag. Him and his agent have repeated they felt it was in their best interest for them to sign and play on the tag. Why not? It pays more than a long term deal would and then you restart the whole cycle all over again. Kirk refused to even negotiate after the first Franchise tag. 

You keep saying that Kirk would accept Alex's contract values and I don't know where you are getting that from. Kirk wants to be the highest paid player in NFL history. 

2 hours ago, Woz said:

While I agree with you that he decided that playing on the tag was the better decision for him and that he was going to leave, I disagree that it was solely about the money. It was more about respect. The contracts offered to him along with the talk the front office wanted him to prove it wasn't a fluke and getting his name wrong ... all of this added up to the fact the Washington Redskins did not respect his value and what he was doing for him. He wants to feel wanted by the team. He wants to be thought of as "the man." The fact that a sizable minority of this fanbase constantly tears him apart for this mistake or that one probably didn't help.

So, when he signs with a new team, it may or may not be the highest contract. But it will be near the top of the market, because he wants to feel respected.

I will bet my years salary that at the time Kirk signs a new deal, it will be for higher than Matt Staffords deal. I don't feel that Cousins is worth the highest paid contract in NFL history, but plenty of teams will. 

[Woz]

Just now, rizzy said:

It was in the summer before the season.

 

 

So, after they had burned the bridges. Okay, that makes sense.

[Dashing202]

3 hours ago, Slateman said:

Alex Smith is the definition of an average QB. Giving a 35 year old QB a guaranteed 71 million is the definition of an overpay.

And because of this dysfunction in the front office, it he Redskins want good players in free agency. We'll HAVE to overpay. No one is going to take a lesser deal to come here. No one is going to choose Washington over another team if the deals are even remotely similar.

Out of respect it's only 17 mil this up coming season. Than the 23 mil comes into effect . We probably release him in year three .

again smith isn't trash and obviously it was reported teams had interest in him. He's someone fans have said sucks or average including my self . I am telling you the past 6 days I've looked and ask fans about this dude . A lot say good things about him, anayslysts sugget he's underrated .

you don't just win games with an all around squad . You can have that and still suck if your qb isn't Good. Remember redskins in 2004? Had a top ten D, a good running back , and we had Coles and Cooley . Still finished 6-10 cause of how poorly our qb was .

same thing in 2005 except Brunel stepped up more and Moss gave us that speed threat we needed.

you can't just say smith is trash etc he made his weapons work . And he's 34 but so what . Rivers-Ryan-brees-Brady- lol are all in there 30s.

even josh McCown at 39! Had a career year .

so bro again I think the argument should be about fuller .we traded for a qb that just had a career year and has 3 probowl , with a winning record . He's 14-2 in the postseason with touchdowns and ints.

but he sucks ??‍♂️ And fuller was this amazing corner that shutdown 1-#2 Wideouts on a daily basis.

[rizzy]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

So, after they had burned the bridges. Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah it is also just what his father says as well, but I think you are right he felt disrespected after the initial deals in 2015 he played well and decided I want to see what I can get on the open market. Everyone wants to spin the narrative of he won't ever play for Allen when I think it is just he wants to hit free agency in general. Even if the Redskins decided well give you 30 million a year I think he thinks maybe someone will offer more.