MOSteelers56 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I agree with @warfelg If we draft a NT early, teams will no huddle us to death. Where does a NT fit in today’s game. Everyone wants Hampton back but his last few years weren’t great. Teams run against NT’s now. They just stretch it out. We just need to fix our assignments and get better tacklers and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: I agree with @warfelg If we draft a NT early, teams will no huddle us to death. Where does a NT fit in today’s game. Everyone wants Hampton back but his last few years weren’t great. Teams run against NT’s now. They just stretch it out. We just need to fix our assignments and get better tacklers and effort. We honestly could use both, but in today’s NFL the emphasis needs to be on the guys that play the largest percent of downs. Looking at some of the recent successful NTs, and most are later picks. NT is becoming the new tweeter in that you can wait and still get a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I agree with @warfelg If we draft a NT early, teams will no huddle us to death. Where does a NT fit in today’s game. Everyone wants Hampton back but his last few years weren’t great. Teams run against NT’s now. They just stretch it out. We just need to fix our assignments and get better tacklers and effort. But they are No Huddling with the same personal so what does it matter? You still have the 3 DL and the OLB rushing. Assuming you have a SS/LB that can handle coverage duties you're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 cushing is going to be released. Do we sign him? what type of contract do you expect him to get with whoever signs him? I see a 1 year deal possibly 2 year deal but no idea on the range of salary due to injuries and suspensions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armsteeld2 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, 3rivers said: cushing is going to be released. Do we sign him? what type of contract do you expect him to get with whoever signs him? I see a 1 year deal possibly 2 year deal but no idea on the range of salary due to injuries and suspensions etc. Nah. I'd pass. Cushing hasn't been the same since he stopped taking steroids lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDSteeler1971 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 How about Demario Davis? He played 1116 snaps for the Jets. That was 100% of their defensive snaps! He totaled 133 tackles with 5 sacks and 15 QB hits! That's pressure and durability we need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Snack Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, MDSteeler1971 said: How about Demario Davis? He played 1116 snaps for the Jets. That was 100% of their defensive snaps! He totaled 133 tackles with 5 sacks and 15 QB hits! That's pressure and durability we need! his contract will prolly be somewhere between what we are paying vince and what we were going to be paying shazier. not sure that is a realistic option for us at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 8:09 AM, warfelg said: While I so get that side, I still disagree that a NT would make that huge a difference. Yea an improved NT can't hurt, but like I said with what you bolded, shows that it would take more than just one thing. Agreed that our defense needs more than one thing. However, many people don't realize that those 11 parts can make or break a defense individually. It is like a car engine. You have a bad spark plug and it throw the entire timing off the car and makes it run roughly. Put a NG in front of ILB's for the 35% of time they play it and instead of second and five or six it may well be second and eight or nine. This piece allows our defense to dictate to the offense, not vice versa. Given the amount of subpackages we play and how little we were in a traditional 3-4 lineup (I read somewhere it was only about 35%); I rather put a bigger emphasis on improving ILB before NT. Yes, but you still can't ignore that 35%. Again, if that is our base defense, then put the proper personnel in to run effectively when you do. If Big Dan were effective, he could have gotten reps at NG 35% of the time. Unfortunately, there was no one on this team capable of playing the NG position effectively and our defense suffered. We also do not have a bunch of "thumper" type ILB's who can meet OL's redirect them and then flow to the ball. Because there is so much passing you need quicker and more agile type ILB's (or at least one). Saying we need help at NG does not negate the fact that we also need help at ILB. When our base defense was at its best, it always had a very good NG. Our LB'ers became the strength of the team because of it. There is nothing that is keeping the team from having six or even seven DL's. I am simply suggesting that they use one spot for a NG. I also feel our new DL coach is going to have a HUGE impact on Hargrave. I agree here as well. However, I don't feel Hargraves issues where just poor technique or a lack of effort. He was playing out of position. He is not a NG. He is a DT. The team knew that when they drafted him. You can't expect a player to be effective playing out of position. The new DL Coach Carl Dunbar is a former Steeler from the 90's. While he didn't make a huge impact as a player, he has done some very good things as a coach. One of his strengths is allowing the DL to play a hybrid style (making the 3-4 and 4-3 look very similar). There were several games where Hargraves was getting double and triple teamed in the run game and we had no answer. Allowing players to play where they can be most effective and putting them in proper positions for success helps as well. I am not disagreeing with you that simply getting a NG would fix all of the defenses problems. I was not suggesting that in my posts. Again being soft up the middle starts with DL. If an OL pushes the DL around, it will be a long day. Look at the first half of last years play-off game against the Chiefs. The Steelers OL dominated their front seven. Compare that to what the Jaguars did in the play-off game. You will see our DL on skates going backwards for much of the game and the LB'ers occupied by blockers or teammates bodies in front of them and them trying to get around that, identify where the ball carrier is, flow to them and make the tackle. It happens fast, but often times it is happening three, four and five yards down the field. We can't be an effective defense like that. We lost a few games and nearly lost a few others to QB's who are not known as being good passers. The common thread was their ability to play smash mouth football and run the ball down our throats. All of our complicated and exotic blitzes and different defensive and sub packages did nothing to stop them. We line up pass heavy and they run. We go run heavy and they still run on us or effectively throw the ball deep. We made Kiser, Glennon, Hundley, Bortles, Brissett, and not to mention the other average to better QB's who lit us up as well. Mostly because they had very effective run games that our defense couldn't stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm starting to get back aboard the LVE Hype-Wagon. I'd love to take him in the 1st. He's my favorite ILB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Again though, everyone tends to approach this with we have to spend a high pick on a NT. We do not have to do that. Get better tacklers that will play a larger percent of the downs. Armsteeled and I both spend way too much time looking at players, and I’m sure he’ll agree that a NT meant to stuff the run playing 35% of downs could be found in later rounds. But if we’re talking fixing up the center of the defense I’m going: ILB, FS, ILB, SS, NT in that order. Main guys later in the draft that can be a run stuffer without spending a premium pick on a 35% downs player: Poona Ford NT Texas. 6’0” 310. Main reason Texas was the 6th best team against the rush. Lots of Casey Hampton in him. Strong against the POA. Derrick Nnadi NT Florida State. 6’1” 315. Projected to be a lot like Timmy Jernigan, who’s quite the run stuff. Offers a bit more in pass rush than Ford. Justin Jones DT NC State. 6’2” 310. Wanna know why Bradley Chubb wasn’t able to be doubled. This guy is why. Played a 1 gap style but I’m confident he can do a 2 gap. Powerful lower body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armsteeld2 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, warfelg said: Again though, everyone tends to approach this with we have to spend a high pick on a NT. We do not have to do that. Get better tacklers that will play a larger percent of the downs. Armsteeled and I both spend way too much time looking at players, and I’m sure he’ll agree that a NT meant to stuff the run playing 35% of downs could be found in later rounds. But if we’re talking fixing up the center of the defense I’m going: ILB, FS, ILB, SS, NT in that order. Main guys later in the draft that can be a run stuffer without spending a premium pick on a 35% downs player: Poona Ford NT Texas. 6’0” 310. Main reason Texas was the 6th best team against the rush. Lots of Casey Hampton in him. Strong against the POA. Derrick Nnadi NT Florida State. 6’1” 315. Projected to be a lot like Timmy Jernigan, who’s quite the run stuff. Offers a bit more in pass rush than Ford. Justin Jones DT NC State. 6’2” 310. Wanna know why Bradley Chubb wasn’t able to be doubled. This guy is why. Played a 1 gap style but I’m confident he can do a 2 gap. Powerful lower body. Why project a guy to 2 gap when you can get someone who excels at that? Da'Shawn Hand and Joshua Frazier are two guys who'd thrive at that. Frazier came in against run heavy teams and was a force at the point of attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said: Why project a guy to 2 gap when you can get someone who excels at that? Da'Shawn Hand and Joshua Frazier are two guys who'd thrive at that. Frazier came in against run heavy teams and was a force at the point of attack. I was looking at late round guys. Both those guys are round 2/3. Either way I’m really intrigued by Ford. I think we could hop into the late 4th and snag him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Wears #95. I have my late round draft crush of 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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