2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[Cheech]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Because Clay, Brooks, and Perry all dealt with injuries last year.  Historically speaking, your 4th pass rusher doesn't play nearly as much as Fackrell did last year.  I posted the numbers a while back, but your 4th pass rusher doesn't play in nearly 43% of the defensive snaps.

Ok.  Let me get this straight.  You think that Matthews and Perry are going to stay healthier by playing MORE snaps than last year?  

Even when 52 was healthy, Dom rotated guys in TO KEEP HIM HEALTHY.  

This shouldn't be so hard.

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Ok.  Now let's move onto the next step, start making a list of #4 pass rushers you feel comfortable playing starter-level snaps.  The list isn't very long, and the ones you're probably included are guys on teams who invest heavily in the position, i.e. Denver.

If you don't like any of the true EDGE guys, I'd look at Robison if he'd play for GB. I know he's 35 but he still knows how to get to the QB. Good one-year filler. 

[CWood21]

Just now, Cheech said:

Ok.  Let me get this straight.  You think that Matthews and Perry are going to stay healthier by playing MORE snaps than last year?  

Even when 52 was healthy, Dom rotated guys in TO KEEP HIM HEALTHY.  

This shouldn't be so hard.

It isn't.  This whole concept that the Packers READILY had the ability to improve the position, and failed to do so is so misguided.   I've already proposed this before, but I'll do it again.  Which corner are you giving up to get that pass rusher?  Are you giving up Jaire Alexander and the NO '19 1st for Marcus Davenport?  Are you giving up Josh Jackson for Uchenna Nwosu/Kemoko Turay/Tyquan Lewis?  Which pass rusher are you going to sign in FA, and what do you do to make their salaries fit?  There's a cause and effect situation here, and you refuse to acknowledge that.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

If you don't like any of the true EDGE guys, I'd look at Robison if he'd play for GB. I know he's 35 but he still knows how to get to the QB. Good one-year filler. 

You think Brian Robison is the answer?  This is Ahmad Brooks all over again.  An old pass rusher whose not the player he once was.  If you exclude the 2016 season, he's averaged 4.5 sacks.  That's a marginal improvement over him.  There's a reason why he hasn't signed.

[packfanfb]

Just now, CWood21 said:

You think Brian Robison is the answer?  This is Ahmad Brooks all over again.  An old pass rusher whose not the player he once was.  If you exclude the 2016 season, he's averaged 4.5 sacks.  That's a marginal improvement over him.  There's a reason why he hasn't signed.

He likely hasnt been signed because he's a vested vet and it's Week 1.

And I'll take 4.5 sacks in a limited role from Robison. He can play the run as well. Two things Fack can't do.

[Cheech]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

It isn't.  This whole concept that the Packers READILY had the ability to improve the position, and failed to do so is so misguided.   I've already proposed this before, but I'll do it again.  Which corner are you giving up to get that pass rusher?  Are you giving up Jaire Alexander and the NO '19 1st for Marcus Davenport?  Are you giving up Josh Jackson for Uchenna Nwosu/Kemoko Turay/Tyquan Lewis?  Which pass rusher are you going to sign in FA, and what do you do to make their salaries fit?  There's a cause and effect situation here, and you refuse to acknowledge that.

I never said we needed a fricken starter.  I never said we needed to use a day 1 or 2 pick.  

There are plenty of guys sitting on the street that aren't going to get rag dolled in the running game by half of the TE's in the league!  Last year Brooks did exactly what we needed him to do on the EDGE.

Im not asking for 5 sacks.  Id like to see a 4th EDGE player that can eat up snaps.  Id like to see a 4th EDGE that has the strength to keep his outside shoulder free while being blocked by a tackle.  

This. Shouldn't. Be. So. Hard.

[Cheech]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You think Brian Robison is the answer?  This is Ahmad Brooks all over again.  An old pass rusher whose not the player he once was.  If you exclude the 2016 season, he's averaged 4.5 sacks.  That's a marginal improvement over him.  There's a reason why he hasn't signed.

Right here.  If you didn't see the value that Brooks brought to the D last year on terms of toughness and run D - and you can't see how Fackrell is the polar opposite in skill set and functional strength, then you should not be commenting.

[Cadmus]

2 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Right here.  If you didn't see the value that Brooks brought to the D last year on terms of toughness and run D - and you can't see how Fackrell is the polar opposite in skill set and functional strength, then you should not be commenting.

Telling a mod that he shouldn't be commenting. 

Gold.

[Cheech]

1 minute ago, Cadmus said:

Telling a mod that he shouldn't be commenting. 

Gold.

Well... you're probably right.  

[CWood21]

14 minutes ago, Cheech said:

I never said we needed a fricken starter.  I never said we needed to use a day 1 or 2 pick.  

There are plenty of guys sitting on the street that aren't going to get rag dolled in the running game by half of the TE's in the league!  Last year Brooks did exactly what we needed him to do on the EDGE.

Im not asking for 5 sacks.  Id like to see a 4th EDGE player that can eat up snaps.  Id like to see a 4th EDGE that has the strength to keep his outside shoulder free while being blocked by a tackle.  

This. Shouldn't. Be. So. Hard.

Your top 3 pass rushers are playing starter amount of snaps, much like your nickel corner is effectively a starter so is your 3rd pass rusher.  So if your 4th pass rusher is playing 40%+ of the defensive snaps, that means the guys ahead of him got injured.  But again, I propose the question to you and you still haven't answered it.  What #4 pass rusher do you feel comfortable playing a starter-level amount of snaps?  The list isn't very long.  Yes, in an ideal world you'd have Reggie Gilbert as your #4 but the reality is that you don't improve that #3 OLB spot by nickel and diming in FA or spending late round picks in FA.

[CWood21]

16 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Right here.  If you didn't see the value that Brooks brought to the D last year on terms of toughness and run D - and you can't see how Fackrell is the polar opposite in skill set and functional strength, then you should not be commenting.

First off, I'm abundantly aware of what Brooks brought to the table.  But I'm also realistic enough to realize that he wasn't very healthy last year.  When healthy, he absolutely was a quality pass rusher.  The problem is your #3 pass rusher plays something around ~40% of the defensive snaps.  Last year, in the 12 games he played, only 7 of the games did he hit that mark.  He was good, but he wasn't healthy.

Secondly, telling anyone they shouldn't comment is against forum rules.

[Cheech]

On 9/5/2018 at 7:02 PM, Cheech said:

I logged on to say what you just said.  

It seems like every year there is one position that everyone can see is just a weak link.  *Not knowing what the new D is going to look like*, most fans and beat writers (hell even Matthews himself) see the depth at this position as a problem.

So for the "well who the heck should they have signed, it's not Gutes fault that his guys got injured!!!" group:

The following EDGE players are available on a date that we can see the depth is an issue:

John Simon, Anthony Zettle, Steven Means, Kony Ealy, Nate Orchard, and Jayrone Elliot.

I think most reasonable folks would agree that some of these guys are better than our 4th OLB, if not our 3rd.  I'm just clinging on to hope that Gute is waiting until after week 1.

 

[Cheech]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

First off, I'm abundantly aware of what Brooks brought to the table.  But I'm also realistic enough to realize that he wasn't very healthy last year.  When healthy, he absolutely was a quality pass rusher.  The problem is your #3 pass rusher plays something around ~40% of the defensive snaps.  Last year, in the 12 games he played, only 7 of the games did he hit that mark.  He was good, but he wasn't healthy.

Secondly, telling anyone they shouldn't comment is against forum rules.

You keep calling them pass rushers like that is their only job.  Defending the run is equally as important.  I'm not arguing that we need to find someone to replace our starters pass rush production should they go down.  I'm saying we need a 4th EDGE player who can keep the defense functioning.  Someone who has the ability to win on first and 2nd down on a consistent basis.    

I still haven't seen a single person stand up for Fackrell yet either.  What gives?  

[Packerraymond]

22 minutes ago, Cheech said:

You keep calling them pass rushers like that is their only job.  Defending the run is equally as important.  I'm not arguing that we need to find someone to replace our starters pass rush production should they go down.  I'm saying we need a 4th EDGE player who can keep the defense functioning.  Someone who has the ability to win on first and 2nd down on a consistent basis.    

I still haven't seen a single person stand up for Fackrell yet either.  What gives?  

Someone who consistently wins, who wants to play #4 on the depth chart and who is available outside of the 53 man rosters of 32 teams? That list is 0 players long.

Bears 4th OLB, Isaiah Irving, Texans, Brennan Scarlett, Steelers, Anthony Chickillo, Chargers, Chris Landrum, Jets, Brandon Copeland....do I need to go on? Not every team is the Broncos or Jaguars.

[Cheech]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Someone who consistently wins, who wants to play #4 on the depth chart and who is available outside of the 53 man rosters of 32 teams? That list is 0 players long.

Bears 4th OLB, Isaiah Irving, Texans, Brennan Scarlett, Steelers, Anthony Chickillo, Chargers, Chris Landrum, Jets, Brandon Copeland....do I need to go on? Not every team is the Broncos or Jaguars.

Please tell me how Fackrell is better than the list of guys I provided.