Tugboat Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Speedyg said: At some point, I think we need to accept that this is who Doug Marrone is. He wants to control the clock and he wants to run the ball and play defense. I don't think this offense will ever sling the ball around. And when that is your philosophy, then you probably don't need to spend 16M on a receiver. I think Doug is comfortable going with Hurns,Westbrook, and Cole plus a rookie. Maybe Lee if they can get him for a discount (which I don't think they will). It's ridiculous to me, but I think this is who we are with him at the helm. Last season was the start of the foundation of trying to be a physical run/defense team. We got that from the defense (even though it can get more stout vs run), and while the offense had it's moments, it really wasn't an efficient run offense. Based on what they've done, I think they will add some more components to improve that run game. This is very true, and honestly...i'm a big proponent of it. Know what your team is going to be built around, and run with it. Even if that means always run on 1st down which really bothers people and stuff. But to me, that's where ARob could really hold that extra value. As a guy who makes it easier to run on certain downs, because he's drawing that extra attention. And as a guy who can win those congested, contested, short area 50/50 catches a run-first approach inherently lead to. But this staff are very heavy duty WCO type folks, who obviously seem to value some different traits than what ARob brings. They don't run the most sophisticated concepts downfield that a lot of us would probably like to see. And in a sense...they did manage a great deal of a success with a sometimes completely inept offense based on those concepts, and without ARob. It honestly might not be that hard to replace Lee's contributions with someone else in that same mold/niche as a WR. It's kinda frustrating though, if that's what we're headed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Speedyg said: At some point, I think we need to accept that this is who Doug Marrone is. He wants to control the clock and he wants to run the ball and play defense. I don't think this offense will ever sling the ball around. And when that is your philosophy, then you probably don't need to spend 16M on a receiver. I think Doug is comfortable going with Hurns,Westbrook, and Cole plus a rookie. Maybe Lee if they can get him for a discount (which I don't think they will). It's ridiculous to me, but I think this is who we are with him at the helm. Last season was the start of the foundation of trying to be a physical run/defense team. We got that from the defense (even though it can get more stout vs run), and while the offense had it's moments, it really wasn't an efficient run offense. Based on what they've done, I think they will add some more components to improve that run game. This probably has more to do with it than anything but damn having someone like him and paying him 12 for 2-3 years helps your Bortles investment and helps the run game and the defense by default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tugboat said: This is very true, and honestly...i'm a big proponent of it. Know what your team is going to be built around, and run with it. Even if that means always run on 1st down which really bothers people and stuff. But to me, that's where ARob could really hold that extra value. As a guy who makes it easier to run on certain downs, because he's drawing that extra attention. And as a guy who can win those congested, contested, short area 50/50 catches a run-first approach inherently lead to. But this staff are very heavy duty WCO type folks, who obviously seem to value some different traits than what ARob brings. They don't run the most sophisticated concepts downfield that a lot of us would probably like to see. And in a sense...they did manage a great deal of a success with a sometimes completely inept offense based on those concepts, and without ARob. It honestly might not be that hard to replace Lee's contributions with someone else in that same mold/niche as a WR. It's kinda frustrating though, if that's what we're headed for. It's pretty amazing, but honestly I feel it's not sustainable. From the eye test this offense was putrid to watch last season. But you look at season long stats and I honestly can't fathom how we pulled it off: 6th in yards per game 12th in yards per play 7th in 1st downs per game 2nd in 4th down percentage Even yards per pass attempt is surprising 13th. And despite how we view this offense as heavy run first, Blake had the 11th most pass attempts last season at 32 (!). The only stat ive found that is a real black mark is 3rd down % where we are 20th. But then you break it down game by game... And you see 30 plus attempts in games where watching live it didn't feel like he did anything (Tennx2 Jets, Bengals, chargers, Cleveland(30 attempts!). And the only thing that I can think of is that the volume has to be due to the possessions we get thanks to defense and time of possession (3rd in league) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Speedyg said: At some point, I think we need to accept that this is who Doug Marrone is. He wants to control the clock and he wants to run the ball and play defense. I don't think this offense will ever sling the ball around. And when that is your philosophy, then you probably don't need to spend 16M on a receiver. I think Doug is comfortable going with Hurns,Westbrook, and Cole plus a rookie. Maybe Lee if they can get him for a discount (which I don't think they will). It's ridiculous to me, but I think this is who we are with him at the helm. Last season was the start of the foundation of trying to be a physical run/defense team. We got that from the defense (even though it can get more stout vs run), and while the offense had it's moments, it really wasn't an efficient run offense. Based on what they've done, I think they will add some more components to improve that run game. I agree, and if this is their mindset I hope they pay Pugh or another highly regarded interior OL in FA. The OL (although they played well last year I'd say as a unit), needs to be better if we want consistent success running the ball in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VLoo Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Pugh is someone I want here. He obviously has the connections, but you can also swing him out to tackle in a pinch, which is some nice versatility when you consider our lack of depth there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 55 minutes ago, Speedyg said: It's pretty amazing, but honestly I feel it's not sustainable. From the eye test this offense was putrid to watch last season. But you look at season long stats and I honestly can't fathom how we pulled it off: 6th in yards per game 12th in yards per play 7th in 1st downs per game 2nd in 4th down percentage Even yards per pass attempt is surprising 13th. And despite how we view this offense as heavy run first, Blake had the 11th most pass attempts last season at 32 (!). The only stat ive found that is a real black mark is 3rd down % where we are 20th. But then you break it down game by game... And you see 30 plus attempts in games where watching live it didn't feel like he did anything (Tennx2 Jets, Bengals, chargers, Cleveland(30 attempts!). And the only thing that I can think of is that the volume has to be due to the possessions we get thanks to defense and time of possession (3rd in league) Yeah. On the whole, the stats look pretty alright...but there were some mighty low valleys, and some very artificially high peaks in runaway blowout games in there. Fundamentally, i think this offense can post those sort of results statistically again. A lot of those stats can be flattered by a very Run Run Run - Play Action deep pass, type gameplan (which is where Bortles seems to be at his best). The biggest thing we clearly cannot have success with...is Bortles throwing a ton (30+) of passes per game. He just doesn't have the accuracy, and we're obviously not running the sort of offense to where that's going to be a viable gameplan. Which is absolutely fine with me, as long as the Running Game can be more consistent this year. But there are still always going to be the passing situations...and we need guys who are going to bail Bortles out of those. Consistently. And in spite of some often very vaguely thrown balls. Which is where ARob seemed like an obvious target to retain. But evidently, they've got something else in mind. And i get the distinct impression it's a lot more like the 2017 offense we saw, with Lee prominently featured, running across the formation every second snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, VLoo said: Pugh is someone I want here. He obviously has the connections, but you can also swing him out to tackle in a pinch, which is some nice versatility when you consider our lack of depth there. It would be absolutely swell to have either a G who can kick out in a pinch...or at least a draftee with some ability to kick out, or something. Frankly, i'd like to see us bring in a prospect who can play Guard well...but might even have the upside to play a real swing tackle role if absolutely necessary. Or at least, something to provide at least a tiny bit of LT insulation behind Cam. Something hopefully better than last year...where it felt like a major catastrophe about to happen when Cam limped off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just throwing this out there but do you guys think they would go RB early again? Like Speedy said, this is a run the ball/control the clock type offense. Despite missing 3 games, Fournette finished with 340 carries. That is a lot, especially in year 1. I know they like Yeldon as a 3rd down guy and maybe Grant will see the field more but I feel like they need that guy to take the load off of LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Just throwing this out there but do you guys think they would go RB early again? Like Speedy said, this is a run the ball/control the clock type offense. Despite missing 3 games, Fournette finished with 340 carries. That is a lot, especially in year 1. I know they like Yeldon as a 3rd down guy and maybe Grant will see the field more but I feel like they need that guy to take the load off of LF. I might have to file some medical report to have them checked if they took another running back (even though I kind of joked in the general thread that they will trade up for Barkley so we can achieve Doug's dream of never throwing the ball again). Honestly, I thought TJ took some steps in that he was more decisive running the football and didn't dance as much as before. I think he'd be ok carrying the load for 1 or 2 games if Leonard gets hurt, but anything longer and we'll need an extra help. Hopefully this coaching staff wises up and uses Grant more (I think he's a rfa?). The guy has shown to be a dynamic playmaker every chance he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Speedyg said: I might have to file some medical report to have them checked if they took another running back (even though I kind of joked in the general thread that they will trade up for Barkley so we can achieve Doug's dream of never throwing the ball again). Honestly, I thought TJ took some steps in that he was more decisive running the football and didn't dance as much as before. I think he'd be ok carrying the load for 1 or 2 games if Leonard gets hurt, but anything longer and we'll need an extra help. Hopefully this coaching staff wises up and uses Grant more (I think he's a rfa?). The guy has shown to be a dynamic playmaker every chance he got. I do agree with you on Grant. I definitely feel like he should get the ball more. Over the years, he has gotten better going more east and west. He would usually just go north and south. I loved the way they used him in the AFCCG. Hopefully they continue to get him involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Just throwing this out there but do you guys think they would go RB early again? Like Speedy said, this is a run the ball/control the clock type offense. Despite missing 3 games, Fournette finished with 340 carries. That is a lot, especially in year 1. I know they like Yeldon as a 3rd down guy and maybe Grant will see the field more but I feel like they need that guy to take the load off of LF. No. I think we do need a 4th RB in the mix. Fournette is the obvious lead off guy, Yeldon is a quality 3rd down back, and Grant is an interesting and explosive change of pace guy. But they need at least one more quality every down type guy. Don't think they have to go too early in the draft to get them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I think my ideal off season would be OL free agent AC back Lamar at 29 OL with 2nd rd TE 3rd round WR 4th 6th/7th ST guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Speedyg said: I think my ideal off season would be OL free agent AC back Lamar at 29 OL with 2nd rd TE 3rd round WR 4th 6th/7th ST guys ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 If we lose Arob we better get Pugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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