cannondale Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Wilkerson has a bad reputation in this league. Man makes Randall look like a choir boy. Graham's old and hasn't been hugely productive in the previous two seasons and we just made him the highest paid TE in history. Wilkerson has been productive at a high level and not too old to recapture that, and yet hopefully old enough now to have matured and realize what he has to lose. Asking for a one year deal so he can prove himself may show his initiative. That's what I keep telling myself. I agree 100% on Graham, but have argued that enough in other threads. The risk is too high for that money. Would rather have had a CB at that price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Graham's value was expected at double digits AAV, they had some insiders on MKE radio today that said they thought Graham was going to pull 12 per. I personally thought 10 per, I had us sign him for 2/22 in a mock to overpay a bit. Wilkerson would've made 5m from any team in that group of visits he went on. Without his flaws he'd be worth the 5/85 he got. 3/30 is worth more than 2/22 to a 31 year old. A lot of those visits were probably teams trying to figure out if they could work with the man. You think he went on all those visits and then took a lower offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: If it was just our last GM and not the nature of Green Bay, there would be more evidence to suggest it was just Thompson. Ron Wolf signed plenty of FAs, Mike Sherman signed a bunch of bad FAs (Joe Johnson was the worst) and Gute just signed 2 of the top 10 FAs on the market before FA officially opened. If you believe Thompson was active every year and just missed out because "Green Bay" I've got some swamp land you might be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: You can't use hindsight as to whether or not they were worth it. Woodson was viewed as an overpay and that was a steal. Graham or Will would've signed those deals with another team. We didn't pay a premium for GB. Obviously Ted signed Peppers. Every move he made in FA worked out. Would've been nice if he did it more. We certainly did overpaid for Graham. He wasn't much better than mediocre last year and he's now the highest paid TE in the league. He's no where near the caliber of TE as Ertz, Gronk or Kelce yet we're foolishly paying him for past production. He looked broken down last year and now he's being paid like a perennial All pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: 3/30 is worth more than 2/22 to a 31 year old. A lot of those visits were probably teams trying to figure out if they could work with the man. You think he went on all those visits and then took a lower offer? I think all the offers were probably very similar. Every report said GB was his #1 choice from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Leader said: Damn HZ.....I read your posts and think *I* need to grab some anti-depressants from the medicine cabinet LOL Cheer up Dude. Not everything's "half empty". Why do you people insist on doing this? It gets to a point where I really wish there was an option to put yourself on people's ignore lists. I'm not going to change. This is how I speak. I follow the rules. How I post is within the rules. You talking about me and telling me how I should post is not within the rules. I don't go around telling other people how to post, to be more positive, to do this, to do that, to make fun of their posting style. What you're doing when you pull this crap is literally worse than anything I do. It's a waste of your time and mine. If you're fishing for likes, I'll give you one like a day to leave me alone about it. Throughout the season I am the most optimistic person on this site. I've had people tell me to quit being so optimistic during the season. I'd really just like it if people quit telling me how to post, how optimistic or pessimistic I ought to be and all that. If you want to fish for likes and crack jokes at my expense, do it without quoting me. I don't like getting notifications just from someone telling me to quit being so pessimistic or to calm down or to be less optimistic or any of that. I have notifications turned on so I can talk about football, not my posting habits. So in the future, if you could quit quoting me when all you're gonna do is talk **** about how I post, that'd be great. For all the **** I've gotten this free agency, I'm not the one going around telling people how to form their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Ron Wolf signed plenty of FAs, Mike Sherman signed a bunch of bad FAs (Joe Johnson was the worst) and Gute just signed 2 of the top 10 FAs on the market before FA officially opened. If you believe Thompson was active every year and just missed out because "Green Bay" I've got some swamp land you might be interested in. Ray... This is the fourth time I will have asked you to provide evidence. Show me one major free agent acquisition that was 27 years old or younger at the time of signing. Go back four GMs if you have to. Green Bay is a place for older free agents to sign if they want to win a ring. It's not, it never has been, and it never will be a place for 27 and younger multi-millionaires. I'm not denying Thompson used free agency enough. There were plenty of cheap options he could have signed that he didn't. I am arguing that the Packers will never be the Trumaine Johnson or Sammy Watkins destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I think all the offers were probably very similar. Every report said GB was his #1 choice from day 1. All we needed to bring a guy here who was faced with similar offers was to sign his favorite former coach to be our defensive coordinator. Let's not pretend that wasn't a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'm digging all the folks who think players are decent until they sign for GB, then they become garbage. It works the other way for them too. They suck in GB until they leave, then they're all-pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Ray... This is the fourth time I will have asked you to provide evidence. Show me one major free agent acquisition that was 27 years old or younger at the time of signing. Go back four GMs if you have to. Green Bay is a place for older free agents to sign if they want to win a ring. It's not, it never has been, and it never will be a place for 27 and younger multi-millionaires. I'm not denying Thompson used free agency enough. There were plenty of cheap options he could have signed that he didn't. I am arguing that the Packers will never be the Trumaine Johnson or Sammy Watkins destination. You're using 27 because it's convenient for your argument. I'm not an idiot so I've been ignoring it. Up until recently you needed 5 years to gain FA status, 4 years you were an RFA. Underclassmen declarations are in another stratosphere then they used to be. Then you have the franchise tag which is used on almost any big time FA that a deal doesn't get done. So you have guys coming into the league older at 22,23 and 24 years old playing for 5 years before they hit UFA. 27 year old free agents before the time of Ted probably made up 5% of the market. It's a loaded question and I'm not wasting my time. Also, where has anyone stipulated Ted didn't sign enough YOUNG FAs? No one said that. So I'll pass on trying to fall in your trap, I've been around here long enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: All we needed to bring a guy here who was faced with similar offers was to sign his favorite former coach to be our defensive coordinator. Let's not pretend that wasn't a factor. All this does is prove the point that there are plenty of FAs out there where "location" isn't the #1 factor in their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: All this does is prove the point that there are plenty of FAs out there where "location" isn't the #1 factor in their decision. I've never said location is the #1 factor. Money is the #1 factor. Then there are a bunch of secondary qualifications that make or break you when money is even. Location, familiarity with the staff, and a few other factors all play in. We lose on location and our staff has been rather stagnant for a long time. Makes it tough to win those FA battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The available younger guys are looking for their second contract. That's their moneymaker. That could factor in. Third contract guys are more mature and possibly carry more value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: You're using 27 because it's convenient for your argument. I'm not an idiot so I've been ignoring it. Take age out of it and stop avoiding the question. Major free agent acquisition. Any age, but it has to be major. Don't give me Peppers, Woodson, Graham, Wilkerson. Those guys are all old and chasing rings. In my opinion, Graham is equal to Cook/Bennett combined. Better than either for sure, but not so astronomically different as to be called a major departure. It's just not there. The Packers don't get major free agent additions of comparatively young players about to become multimillionaires. Bottom line: Green Bay, Wisconsin is the last geographical location out of 32 where a person wants to live half the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: Take age out of it and stop avoiding the question. Major free agent acquisition. Any age, but it has to be major. Don't give me Peppers, Woodson, Graham, Wilkerson. Those guys are all old and chasing rings. In my opinion, Graham is equal to Cook/Bennett combined. Better than either for sure, but not so astronomically different as to be called a major departure. It's just not there. The Packers don't get major free agent additions of comparatively young players about to become multimillionaires. Bottom line: Green Bay, Wisconsin is the last geographical location out of 32 where a person wants to live half the year. Give me a name of a FA, BUT I'm going to eliminate everyone we've signed because in my opinion they don't qualify. I disagree with you, I think you are wrong and I'm going to leave it at that. There's no changing your mind and you aren't going to change mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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