Elway restructures Von's 2018 salary

[Broncofan]

 

This gives 12.3M more space - dropping it from 6.1M+ from 2019 & 2020.   Von gets paid the same - he just gets it now, instead of over the season.  So he's not "taking one for the team".  This is purely to get more $ now, but kick the problem down the line. 

Well, this is notable and noteworthy for a separate topic for 2 reasons:

 

1.  This is the first time that Elway has gone the restructure route.  He re-did Peyton's final year to drop 4M to a bonus - which Peyton earned by winning the AFCG & SB.  But this is a pure restructure like you see cash-strapped teams do - and then they have cap problems down the road.   Given how we aren't 2018 contenders, not crazy about this at all.

2.  Regardless, the fact we are doing this means there's something Elway has in mind.   We were pretty much done in FA without this - so guess we'll see what this is for.

Elway's always insisted to never compromise future cap health to contend now.   This is a significant departure from his MO.   The very worrisome part?  Only cap-poor teams do this - and they usually stay cap-poor perpetually.   It's justifiable only if you are literally seeing your window to contend close - and even then, it has a big future cost.   This is a cornerstone Elway philosophy he's never touched.  To do so now in 2018 shows he just can't say "2018 isn't our year, 2019+ is more realistic, let's build accordingly".   Todd Davis was evidence of this, this is absolute proof.   Can't say I think it's a good change - part of what made Elway a great GM was cap management in maintaining long-term health.  This is a move that does the opposite.  

Either way, it's done.   Time to see what he has in mind.

 

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[iLikeDefense]

I wonder who they are targeting? Suh, honeybadger, or Richardson?

well this makes it very likely that Von will play out his whole contract because I think the dead money jumped as well, right @Broncofan?

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I wonder who they are targeting? Suh, honeybadger, or Richardson?

well this makes it very likely that Von will play out his whole contract because I think the dead money jumped as well, right @Broncofan?

Yup sure does increase that likelihood.  The 12.3M savings is all 2019-2020 dead money.   He’ll be worth it likely but our 2019 - 2020 cap health gets iffier.  This is a major change for Elway.  Can’t say I like it.  We aren’t 2018 contenders. Spending more for now makes zero sense. 

[Broncofan]

Man Klis is plugged in as anyone so his news is reliable but his takes are increasingly bad.   Von is getting paid the exact same $.   He gets it sooner as a signing bonus is paid right away instead of over the season.    There is nothing about being a team guy in agreeing to this.   A player is happy to take a bonus instead of salary.   The team pays the same $ just the bill comes due later. 

I love Von but agreeing to a restructure had NOTHING to do with being a team guy.  It’s why every player on every team agrees if it’s a restructure.   SMH.  

 

 

[Broncofan]

Thinking on this there are 2 justifiable long term scenarios to do this: 

1.  Getting back into a trade for Juwan James at RT.  He’s 9.3M.  Supposedly MIA keeping him with Tannehill restructure but never know.  He’s worth it.  Or a guy by trade or FA with future impact not just a stopgap who would be a future value sign (like Manny Sanders was in 2nd wave of FA). 

2.   Extending Roby and/or Paradis on front loaded deals.  If we front loaded a deal to give us more flexibility later on it would negate the future cap hit from Von’s restructure.  Or reduce it.  Then you get 2 guys locked up with money now.  This only applies if you front load the deal to have more money now this year (usually a one time big roster bonus).   But then the savings in future tears keeps our cap healthy.  That I would get behind.  

Those 2 scenarios would keep us healthy long term (as long as they aren’t busts obv).   Which is the only way this keeps Elway’s mantra of future cap health never being compromised with restructures.   Guess we’ll find out soon enough.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

Firstly, Klis acts as something of a PR guy for the Broncos. Most fans don't have our knowledge of cap specifics so this makes Von look good to the slightly more than casual fan suburbanites who watch the Broncos on Sunday afternoons and get their Broncos news each night on Klis' 2-3 minute segment on 9news. I'm sure Klis himself knows the specifics but I'd wager Patrick Smyth put a small bug in his ear "say this about Von's restructure, good look for everyone all around." 

Two, I don't think this is a bad idea at all, @Broncofan. 

Von's cap hit for 2018 goes from $22m to $9.75m, freeing up some money for us to pay another upper-tier free agent (or an upper-tier free agent, Keenum is getting paid like one but he is an average, at best, player). Looking at our 2019 cap table on Spotrac, next year, Von's cap hit sits at $25.125m. But look more closely; DT's $17.5m hit comes with only. $2.2m in dead money, Sanders' sits at $12.9m but only $2.6m dead, Wolfe's $10.9 includes only $1.8m, Leary's $9.3m has only $1.75 dead, Marshall's $9.4m with $4m dead, Harris' $8.7m includes only $866k dead. 

Thus what I see is one or more of the big names we will be moving on from next year and freeing up an extra at least $10m in cap space (cutting/trading DT saves us $15m!). If we don't spend what we just freed up from Von's restructure, it's carries over to 2019 and makes the move a wash. 

This isn't a bad move at all. It bounces a little money down the road and gives us some more cash to play with right now. 

 

[Broncofan]

32 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Firstly, Klis acts as something of a PR guy for the Broncos. Most fans don't have our knowledge of cap specifics so this makes Von look good to the slightly more than casual fan suburbanites who watch the Broncos on Sunday afternoons and get their Broncos news each night on Klis' 2-3 minute segment on 9news. I'm sure Klis himself knows the specifics but I'd wager Patrick Smyth put a small bug in his ear "say this about Von's restructure, good look for everyone all around." 

Two, I don't think this is a bad idea at all, @Broncofan. 

Von's cap hit for 2018 goes from $22m to $9.75m, freeing up some money for us to pay another upper-tier free agent (or an upper-tier free agent, Keenum is getting paid like one but he is an average, at best, player). Looking at our 2019 cap table on Spotrac, next year, Von's cap hit sits at $25.125m. But look more closely; DT's $17.5m hit comes with only. $2.2m in dead money, Sanders' sits at $12.9m but only $2.6m dead, Wolfe's $10.9 includes only $1.8m, Leary's $9.3m has only $1.75 dead, Marshall's $9.4m with $4m dead, Harris' $8.7m includes only $866k dead. 

Thus what I see is one or more of the big names we will be moving on from next year and freeing up an extra at least $10m in cap space (cutting/trading DT saves us $15m!). If we don't spend what we just freed up from Von's restructure, it's carries over to 2019 and makes the move a wash. 

This isn't a bad move at all. It bounces a little money down the road and gives us some more cash to play with right now. 

 

Yeah, I already factored in 1 of DT/Sanders leaving next year.  And yes, Leary and Wolfe are iffy (why I think we need 2 new interior OL long-term this year).  Here's the thing though - we are still a bottom 8 salary cap team in 2019 if we just stay the same.  The number looks shiny, but it's how we are relative to others - every other team is getting the extra room that the increases in salary cap have given.   Even having 40M+ for 2019 doesn't get you out of the bottom 10 teams.    That's also why the new FA #'s seem insane to us - the scale of salaries goes up.  So 40M in 2019 seems great - but it's like having 20M 2 years ago.   

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/  (EFFECTIVE cap space is the column that matters - DEN 25th out of 32 even 44M of effective 2019 space - and look at the #'s) 

Realistically, we aren't letting go of Harris, and likely keeping 1 of DT/Sanders.   So we do gain about 20-25M with 3 of those 5 guys cut.   That would have put us in the middle of the pack.   Pushing more money back over 2 years puts us back closer to bottom 10 territory.  For a team that has as many holes as we do, we just can't be in that bad of cap shape. 

Now, like I said before - if the Von is to extend guys for the future we actually will need (Roby/Paradis), totally on-board.  ESPECIALLY if we front load it more than usual with a roster bonus - that's a novel way to avoid creating future cap hell.   Then it's more like your scenario of just using the $ now, but doesn't actually spend our future wealth (because the cap hits later are actually smaller, not bigger).

Or, if it's to get a guy who could be a 2019+ value and key piece, totally on-board.  RT James (even though he's only signed for 2018, would be likely an extension candidate too) fits.   

The key part, though - it can't be to simply make us better with 2018 as the sole goal.  A Richardson-type 1-year signing, etc.   It has to be with 2019 in mind, not just 2018.  We aren't even close to good enough to spend on 2018 alone.   And even with the 2019 cuts we'd make, we're still a bottom-half cap team.  That's fine if we only need to make a few tweaks to contend.  But realistically we won't.
 

[broncofan48]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, I already factored in 1 of DT/Sanders leaving next year.    Here's the thing though - we are still a bottom 8 salary cap team in 2019 if we just stay the same.  The number looks shiny, but it's how we are relative to others - every other team is getting the extra room that the increases in salary cap have given.   Even having 40M+ for 2019 doesn't get you out of the bottom 10 teams.    That's also why the new FA #'s seem insane to us - the scale of salaries goes up.  So 40M in 2019 seems great - but it's like having 20M 2 years ago.   

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/  (EFFECTIVE cap space is the column that matters - DEN 25th out of 32 even 44M of effective 2019 space - and look at the #'s) 

Realistically, we aren't letting go of Harris, and likely keeping 1 of DT/Sanders.   So we do gain about 20-25M with 3 of those 5 guys cut.   That would have put us in the middle of the pack.   Pushing more money back over 2 years puts us back closer to bottom 10 territory.  For a team that has as many holes as we do, we just can't be in that bad of cap shape. 

Now, like I said before - if the Von is to extend guys for the future we actually will need (Roby/Paradis), totally on-board.  ESPECIALLY if we front load it more than usual with a roster bonus - that's a novel way to avoid creating cap hell.

Or, if it's to get a guy who could be a 2019+ value and key piece, totally on-board.   James (even though he's only signed for 2018, would be likely an extension candidate too) fits.  

The key part, though - it can't be to simply make us better with 2018 as the sole goal.  A Richardson-type 1-year signing, etc.   It has to be with 2019 in mind, not just 2018.  We aren't even close to good enough to spend on 2018 alone.   And even with the 2019 cuts we'd make, we're still a bottom-half cap team.  That's fine if we only need to make a few tweaks to contend.  But realistically we won't.
 

Just curious, is the 2019 cap space still factors in Keenum.  If he has a good year, being tight against the cap isn't a big deal but if he suck he will be gone.  Just curious how that would affect the cap space in your scenarios

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Just curious, is the 2019 cap space still factors in Keenum.  If he has a good year, being tight against the cap isn't a big deal but if he suck he will be gone.  Just curious how that would affect the cap space in your scenarios

Uh-oh - good catch, bad news on that front - Keenum's #'s aren't yet on OTC or Spotrac.   So all of those numbers go down another 9M minimum.  Now that we have the Von restructure counted (they updated that), we're at 35M on Spotrac for 2019 - that actually makes us 28th out of 32 teams.   And that's before we count Keenum's 9M minimum.    Honestly, the cuts we make to 1 WR and Marshall and Wolfe likely only get us to bottom 10 territory best-case unless we have a lot of rollover.   Which seems doubtful given we did the Von restructure. 

So yeah, it reinforces the earlier point - Elway can't use this $ on just some 2018 short-term signings.   Extend a guy you need like Roby, Paradis.   Shelby Harris, if you think he's worth it.  Or get a guy in trade/FA who has a real shot to help be a difference maker in 2019+...not a 1-year Suh/Richardson type rental.    That will create more cap trouble when we still aren't good enough to be a legit contender.

[AnAngryAmerican]

See, Kiis explained in his article that Von didn't take less money, just allowed Elway and Sullivan to re-designate that chunk of his salary as a signing bonus to free up cap space. 

Quote

 

Miller didn’t take less. The transaction gives him greater cash flow as signing bonuses are generally paid either up front, or in installments with a significant portion paid immediately.

In doing so, Miller gave the Broncos greater spending flexibility to acquire a much-needed right tackle and cornerback Delvin Breaux, provided he passes his physical, and possibly a No. 3-type receiver and defensive lineman.

 

 

[jolly red giant]

I have no idea what Elway is up to here - he could believe we are one more top flight FA away from a Championship - he could be trying to build the rollover kitty (but that doesn't make sense) - he could be intent of giving extensions to certain people - he might be planning on drafting a QB, cutting Lynch and eating the $4.5million in dead cap money.

There are two ways of not ending up in cap hell -

1. Don't pay anyone

2. Draft players who are not donkeys

Nobody wins by trying to build a roster through FA - you bring in low cost depth guys and maybe the odd high flying FA if you are one step away. You build a roster by drafting well - and if the Broncos want to get back on top then that is what Elway has to do this year to start the process.

[BaldyBronco]

6 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

I have no idea what Elway is up to here - he could believe we are one more top flight FA away from a Championship - he could be trying to build the rollover kitty (but that doesn't make sense) - he could be intent of giving extensions to certain people - he might be planning on drafting a QB, cutting Lynch and eating the $4.5million in dead cap money.

There are two ways of not ending up in cap hell -

1. Don't pay anyone

2. Draft players who are not donkeys

Nobody wins by trying to build a roster through FA - you bring in low cost depth guys and maybe the odd high flying FA if you are one step away. You build a roster by drafting well - and if the Broncos want to get back on top then that is what Elway has to do this year to start the process.

This post is overgeneralized

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Firstly, Klis acts as something of a PR guy for the Broncos. Most fans don't have our knowledge of cap specifics so this makes Von look good to the slightly more than casual fan suburbanites who watch the Broncos on Sunday afternoons and get their Broncos news each night on Klis' 2-3 minute segment on 9news. I'm sure Klis himself knows the specifics but I'd wager Patrick Smyth put a small bug in his ear "say this about Von's restructure, good look for everyone all around." 

Two, I don't think this is a bad idea at all, @Broncofan. 

Von's cap hit for 2018 goes from $22m to $9.75m, freeing up some money for us to pay another upper-tier free agent (or an upper-tier free agent, Keenum is getting paid like one but he is an average, at best, player). Looking at our 2019 cap table on Spotrac, next year, Von's cap hit sits at $25.125m. But look more closely; DT's $17.5m hit comes with only. $2.2m in dead money, Sanders' sits at $12.9m but only $2.6m dead, Wolfe's $10.9 includes only $1.8m, Leary's $9.3m has only $1.75 dead, Marshall's $9.4m with $4m dead, Harris' $8.7m includes only $866k dead. 

Thus what I see is one or more of the big names we will be moving on from next year and freeing up an extra at least $10m in cap space (cutting/trading DT saves us $15m!). If we don't spend what we just freed up from Von's restructure, it's carries over to 2019 and makes the move a wash. 

This isn't a bad move at all. It bounces a little money down the road and gives us some more cash to play with right now. 

 

So, liked the post but have to call you on the bolded. As far as QB's go his salary is not upper tier. There's over 15 QB's in the league that make more. He' definitely getting paid mid tier wages for a mid tier player. Looks pretty fair to me.

[jolly red giant]

55 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

This post is overgeneralized

you're right - I should have just said 'if the Broncos want to win then they need to do a damned better job at drafting players'.

[BaldyBronco]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

you're right - I should have just said 'if the Broncos want to win then they need to do a damned better job at drafting players'.

There you go...