jetskid007 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, BlaZeN37 said: Ding ding ding. The more film I watch on Allen the more I notice how good he is at diagnosing the defense pre-snap and how much protection responsibility he has at the LOS. THE JOSH ALLEN OFFENSE Wyoming offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Brent Vigen has been on a roll. At North Dakota State he helped prepare QB Brock Jensen for a professional career that included a brief stint with the Miami Dolphins and a two-year stint in the CFL. Then there was Carson Wentz. Vigen’s latest star pupil, after a move to Wyoming: Josh Allen. As I’ve written in the past, NFL teams tend to favor college coaches and schemes just as much as body types, and there’s a lot to like about Vigen’s pro-style system at Wyoming. I asked Jensen to walk us through a play call and explain a little bit about why a Vigen quarterback is so desirable in the eyes of NFL evaluators. The basics: His quarterbacks use the wristband system. The play comes in via a running back, fullback or wide receiver switching on and off the field. It’s at least two calls, allowing the quarterback to check to another play or various run checks. Vigen’s quarterbacks have about 180 plays on their three-tiered wristband. “A lot of times, we’ll have double calls, and depending on what we see at the line of scrimmage, what particular key we’re looking at, you check the play at the line or roll with the original play call,” Jensen says. “We had the freedom to change the play to a certain degree, a few run checks to where, if the quarterback saw an overload to one side, we’d run power the opposite way. He gave me freedom toward the end of my career. But at the same time, he gives you some rules within the system to go by.” Vigen insists his quarterbacks learn the game. That much is obvious from all the variables in each call: Gun right wide (formation), combo zip (motion) 60 (protection), smash pistol S burst (route concept). “I would be in charge of setting the protection the way I saw it fit the most,” Jensen says. “Usually trouble comes from the bubble, the one technique side, but we had indicators throughout the week, which way we wanted to set the protection.” Jensen, who still keeps up with Vigen and recognized many of the same concepts at Wyoming, said that Vigen’s offense is absolutely an NFL pipeline system. By forcing them to call their own protections, they’re learning to recognize pressure from all sides of the field. By utilizing half-field concepts similar to those trumpeted by the Rams, 49ers and Washington, he’s forcing quarterbacks to recognize coverages off the bat. “Take the smash pistol play call I gave you earlier. That’s a half-field concept. If it’s Cover 3, you read the pistol side, or any single high safety look you read the pistol side. Any Cover 2 look, you work the smash side. In a straight man, 10 coverage, you can do either, pick your best matchup and find your dog, who you want to go to.” Rosen, as one analyst told me earlier in the draft process, will be high on teams’ draft boards because he played and excelled in three different offenses with pro influences. In terms of the mental portion of the game, Allen may not be that far behind. via Albert Breer. Interesting point that isn’t mentioned: Jeremy Bates has utilized the 1/2 field concept with DEN, SEA, and implemented it into our offense last year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Allen may be not that far behind Rosen? Rosen has been embattled against Power 5 defenses. He should be ready for NFL in 2 or 3 years earlier than Allen. Jets don't have qb and we will have to deal with the wait game for 3 or 4 more years? That is suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, JetsandI said: Allen may be not that far behind Rosen? Rosen has been embattled against Power 5 defenses. He should be ready for NFL in 2 or 3 years earlier than Allen. Jets don't have qb and we will have to deal with the wait game for 3 or 4 more years? That is suicidal. Mentally* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaZeN37 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I literally have Rosen and Allen neck and neck in my rankings as of right now. I’d be thrilled with either of them at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, jetskid007 said: Mentally* Mentally and physically work together. Allen struggled on field against some defenses? in college and then he would be totally ready to ball in NFL level in year 2? I am not so sure about it. I will be happy to be wrong, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 @jetskid007Can you post a link to the JA article? Thanks! Nevermind, found it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, BlaZeN37 said: I literally have Rosen and Allen neck and neck in my rankings as of right now. I’d be thrilled with either of them at 3. I think it is head and hunchback to me. Darnold and Rosen remain high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, JetsandI said: Mentally and physically work together. Allen struggled on field against some defenses? in college and then he would be totally ready to ball in NFL level in year 2? I am not so sure about it. I will be happy to be wrong, though. I think the point is, teams are really impressed with Rosen playing at a high level despite needing to learn 3 different offenses in his 3 years of school. While not the same, teams are also impressed with the amount of info Allen had to process and how similar his responsibilies were to what he’ll have to do in an NFL offense. Most college offenses don’t allow their QBs to make protection calls, field reads, or play calls. It’s usually “here’s the play, throw to the guy if he’s open” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampantjet Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Bobby816 said: Playing Big 12 defenses I do think has blinded a lot of Mayfield supporters. I at the end of the day can careless about stats. I’ve stated my issues with Mayfield dozens of times. And I still have him 3rd on my QB list. I do think he’s 4th on ours. That’s why I’m trying to watch more Allen now. Bc I believe our big board is... 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3. Allen 4. Mayfield Beung we pick 3rd that’s why I don’t think Mayfield is an option for us. Just my opinion and basing it off of what Macc likes in QBs and such. Darnold and Rosen played in the Pac 12, if you think their defenses were vastly better than the Big 12 then you are fooling yourself. Washington is basically the only legit D in the Pac 12, they were the #5, Washington St at 13, Utah at 32, Oregon at 42, Cal at 93, Stanford 94, USC at 101, Arizona St at 107, Arizona at 115, Oregon St at 120, UCLA at 123 Other than the top 2 teams on there that is not a ton of tough match ups on there. At least not enough of a discrepancy to explain the massive statistical difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: I think the point is, teams are really impressed with Rosen playing at a high level despite needing to learn 3 different offenses in his 3 years of school. While not the same, teams are also impressed with the amount of info Allen had to process and how similar his responsibilies were to what he’ll have to do in an NFL offense. Most college offenses don’t allow their QBs to make protection calls, field reads, or play calls. It’s usually “here’s the play, throw to the guy if he’s open” Yeah that is how he is included in 1st round conversation in the first place. I only worry about how quick a qb will get ready to say Patriots Patriots. Personally, I prefer the sooner the better. Of course, I would feel stupid if Rosen had been battling injuries during the rookie contract while Allen got ready to roll in year 4. lol. Do you have anything similar article available for Sam Darnold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/28/sam-darnold-draft-field-podcast-will-ferrell-josh-allen-carson-wentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 38 minutes ago, BlaZeN37 said: I literally have Rosen and Allen neck and neck in my rankings as of right now. I’d be thrilled with either of them at 3. So, you view Allen high because he played in an offense that gives him similar responsibility to what QB's have in the NFL. That's fine. The part I struggle with Allen is that he had average success in that situation. But then somehow he is suppose to perform at a higher level in the NFL. If anything, Allen becomes the most projectable QB of the bunch because he is likely to perform similar to how he did in college since the environment is the same and the relative competition is the same. Baker shows the ability to read defenses pre-snap as well as react to how that coverage unfolds immediately after the snap. Why is Baker not at the same level with Rosen and Allen in your ranking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 The best thing that can happen to the Jets is that we draft Rosen. Allen fans like Rosen and Mayfield fans like Rosen. We can all agree that Rosen would be awesome in green white. The fan base will be divided if we have to decided between Baker and Allen. Going to be interesting watching the two develop. The interesting part is that I think Buffalo or Miami get the QB we don't pick. So, hopefully whoever we pick is the better QB. Edit: Then there's Lamar Jackson. He may be in our division as well. That should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Mayfield is able to read defense because he knows his offense really well (in fact, he played one offense in whole of his college career). When you see something that will mess up your planned play you change it up. Now, how well will Mayfield run offense in NFL? If he does not know it immediately then reading defense is worthless. Allen has advantage because he knows pro concepts really well. It is shame that he couldn't make all silver throws. I am not sure about he can be better qb in NFL than NCAA with better materialized team. Both require some serious time to master their weakness for NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekill08x Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, BlaZeN37 said: I literally have Rosen and Allen neck and neck in my rankings as of right now. I’d be thrilled with either of them at 3. Based on what exactly? What has Allen done for you on film to put him in Rosen's class, or what about Rosen don't you like? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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