Mike Pettine Defense

[TheBitzMan]

11 minutes ago, Beast said:

And your simple math fails to understand the game of football has a human element to it, making it stupid math.

No OLB has played 65% of the defensive snaps in the last two years... not a single one... OLBers need breathers, they get injured, their is a human element to the football game.

Since none of them get play 65%... that means you need at least 4 different OLBers to take snaps... so yes only 11 on the field at the time, but it's not the same 11 guys. 

 

If Matthews gets the wind knocked out of him, he comes off the field... you're not taking snaps away from Matthews, he's recovering... and needs someone to take some snaps for him.

It's a team game, and a human game... this is not madden video game football! Guys need to rotate in and out, and they use different packages... one player can be better in certain packages than another package.

 

It's simple, back-ups often have to rotate in at times or if they're better suited for certain packages. Mike Petitine (who know the guy in control of the defense) has said the OLBers will be asked to drop into coverage more often this year... which better suits Fackrell than in years past, when they were basically just asked to play 4-3 DE that stood up and called themselves 3-4 OLBers. Petitine is getting back to a more true 3-4 defense than Capers has been running the last two years (or at least that's what is expected.

Stupid math, eh? 

Here some more math.

In 547 snaps Kyler Fackrell has amassed a whopping 26 tackles and 5 sacks. 

You are clearly missing the point. I don't want Fackrell on the field for defense at all. No way I want him rushing the passer or dropping into coverage. If you put him on the field when Matthews needs a breather that is taking snaps away from someone else who could've stepped in.  Whether it's Biegel, Gilbert, Draft Pick or an UDFA. I want them on the field over Fackrell who has had enough chances to prove he is worth anything more than a special teamer. You say we need 4 OLBers, Fackrell is nowhere near the 4 I would choose. I am not creating any package where Fackrell is on the field. I would rather create packages for players with actual upside. 

Feel free to die on the Kyler Fackrell hill. Fackrell wouldn't be anywhere near my Madden roster .

[TheBitzMan]

2 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

Let me put it this way: I'm not counting him out just yet. As for who gets on the field, their performance in camp will determine that part. I didn't see significantly more promise from those other two last season than I did from Fack, myself. He did make some plays for us last year, more than I remember of Biegel or Gilbert.

Also worth noting that he played a lot of (like, the most of any, if I'm not mistaken) ST snaps for us this past season, so he may have value even if he does not pan out as an EDGE.

I doubt he has the ceiling of a truly standout player, but realistically, not every player will be. Good teams have guys that do the little things well and are dependable. Think ~Koa Misi, maybe Rob Ninkovich if we're being really optimistic.

Fackrell has had 2 training camps and 547 snaps in real games to prove he was anything. How much more are you going to give him? The guy is also 26, not like he has room to grow physically either.

Let's not forget this Demovsky gem:

"Milestone moment for Kyler Fackrell: Won his first 1-on-1 rep in two years. He was 0-24 in the drill before he beat rookie tackle Robert Leff." HIS FIRST 1-on-1 WIN IN TWO TRAINING CAMPS AGAINST A GUY WHO IS SEEKING EMPLOYMENT IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING.

If you think that Gilbert and Biegel haven't showed more in their limited time, we must be watching different games. Gilbert can actually bend an edge and Biegel can actually set an edge. Fackrell can't do anything besides get lucky on a blown assignment. 

[Beast]

21 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

Stupid math, eh? 

Here some more math.

In 547 snaps Kyler Fackrell has amassed a whopping 26 tackles and 5 sacks. 

You are clearly missing the point. I don't want Fackrell on the field for defense at all. No way I want him rushing the passer or dropping into coverage. If you put him on the field when Matthews needs a breather that is taking snaps away from someone else who could've stepped in.  Whether it's Biegel, Gilbert, Draft Pick or an UDFA. I want them on the field over Fackrell who has had enough chances to prove he is worth anything more than a special teamer. You say we need 4 OLBers, Fackrell is nowhere near the 4 I would choose. I am not creating any package where Fackrell is on the field. I would rather create packages for players with actual upside. 

Feel free to die on the Kyler Fackrell hill. Fackrell wouldn't be anywhere near my Madden roster .

Yes, your math looks nice, but has completely failed to account for important football factors...

No, I have not missed that point, that you hate Fackrell... I've just ignored it, because no one cares... you can hate whomever you want to hate.

[Gopher Trace]

4 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

Fackrell has had 2 training camps and 547 snaps in real games to prove he was anything. How much more are you going to give him? The guy is also 26, not like he has room to grow physically either.

If you think that Gilbert and Biegel haven't showed more in their limited time, we must be watching different games. Gilbert can actually bend an edge and Biegel can actually set an edge. Fackrell can't do anything besides get lucky on a blown assignment. 

1

I'll give him this offseason and preseason, like I said. What do we have to lose by taking another look?

Better question: what do we have to gain by not giving him a chance? It's not like he's keeping anyone better off the roster at the moment. We can easily fit him in with another draft class, too, so that's not the issue.

You need to give your young guys a little time to develop. He's only entering Year 3, and has actually shown some progression between Years 1 & 2. I'm simply saying: let's see how that progression continues. 26 is older than most at this point in his career, but it isn't old. He's still a ways away from the decline stage.

You've written him off, I get it. I wrote off Jayrone before most other fans did, but I was willing to give him a chance as long as we had not clearly upgraded over him, because there was some chance he'd prove me wrong. He was not much of a defender in his time here, but he had a role for us on specials. I think Fack can be a nice ST guy to have around at the very least. I feel better about his odds as an EDGE than I did Elliot, though.

[TheBitzMan]

7 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

I'll give him this offseason and preseason, like I said. What do we have to lose by taking another look?

Better question: what do we have to gain by not giving him a chance? It's not like he's keeping anyone better off the roster at the moment. We can easily fit him in with another draft class, too, so that's not the issue.

You need to give your young guys a little time to develop. He's only entering Year 3, and has actually shown some progression between Years 1 & 2. I'm simply saying: let's see how that progression continues. 26 is older than most at this point in his career, but it isn't old. He's still a ways away from the decline stage.

You've written him off, I get it. I wrote off Jayrone before most other fans did, but I was willing to give him a chance as long as we had not clearly upgraded over him, because there was some chance he'd prove me wrong. He was not much of a defender in his time here, but he had a role for us on specials. I think Fack can be a nice ST guy to have around at the very least. I feel better about his odds as an EDGE than I did Elliot, though.

Because our roster is stale and we need to stop being complacent with players because they were drafted high. You can't tell me that every player in that locker room doesn't realize that Gilbert deserved to be on the field over Fackrell well before he was. What kind of message does that send? 

He has had enough chances to show anything. Players aren't idiots they know when guys can't play. 

[TheBitzMan]

32 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yes, your math looks nice, but has completely failed to account for important football factors...

No, I have not missed that point, that you hate Fackrell... I've just ignored it, because no one cares... you can hate whomever you want to hate.

I do not hate him. I am sure he is a great guy off the field.

You just want to think what are important football factors to you are being overlooked by me. I countered every one of your points and this was your response. Have a great time with your argument. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

Yeah Fackrell is garbage guys. Hopefully Biegel can turn into something but the Fackrell ship has sailed in my opinion. 

[Beast]

7 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

You just want to think what are important football factors to you are being overlooked by me. I countered every one of your points and this was your response. Have a great time with your argument. 

I don't care what you think... it's simply that you were clear that you were looking at football on paper and not the real game.

And you haven't countered anything... you just threw more random numbers at it... which random numbers mean absolutely nothing without good context of real football including how said player was being used. You're claiming you have done everything, when in reality you have done nothing but crapped on Fackrell.

Bring the players in and let them learn and compete... and let the best players play for the scheme that you're running. Don't play favorites.

[TheBitzMan]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don't care what you think... it's simply that you were clear that you were looking at football on paper and not the real game.

And you haven't countered anything... you just threw more random numbers at it... which random numbers mean absolutely nothing without good context of real football including how said player was being used. You're claiming you have done everything, when in reality you have done nothing but crapped on Fackrell.

Bring the players in and let them learn and compete... and let the best players play for the scheme that you're running. Don't play favorites.

The irony in the "don't play favorites" comment is too much in this argument. 

Alright man good talk. Maybe try respecting other people's opinions, you can actually learn things. I have a learned a lot from people in this forum, who I disagreed with. Your optimism on Fackrell is impressive based on what he has shown on tape. I kinda respect it. 

 

[Beast]

1 minute ago, TheBitzMan said:

Alright man good talk. Maybe try respecting other people's opinions, you can actually learn things. I have a learned a lot from people in this forum, who I disagreed with. Your optimism on Fackrell is impressive based on what he has shown on tape. I kinda respect it.

I do respect other people opinions, and I know one can learn things, but they have to know what they're talking about.

My optimism on Fackrell? ... I don't think I'm optimism on Fackrell. I've never been a fan of Fackrell (not even before his draft and thought he would of been off the Packers draft list) as he has had no power in his pass rush game and not enough speed/quickness/bend to get around the corner. 

I just realize that Fackrell was a HORRIBLE fit for how the Packers have been using the OLBers the last two years (basically they've been standup 4-3 DEs)... and Petitine has said that the OLBers will be expected to drop into coverage more... being used like a true 3-4 OLB where it's more about being versatile should help Fackrell as it plays to his strengths of being a jack of all trades and a king of nothing. Asking him to cover part-time and surprise blitz part-time should help him. 

Though what would really help Fackrell is to put some muscle on him, learn power rush moves and learn to convert speed to power... though some of that might be too late. As if guys don't know some power moves by now, usually it's because either they don't want to know or they're not mentally tough enough for them. Though, I'm not sure how Perry is going to do dropping into coverage either.... then again, I'm still waiting to see if both OLBers will be dropping into coverage more, or just one side. 

[Shanedorf]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

.... then again, I'm still waiting to see if both OLBers will be dropping into coverage more, or just one side. 

from a few pages back:

"I don't want to pigeon-hole Pettine because I think he'll do whatever his personnel dictates, but he has a reputation for playing his defensive linemen in an under look and using the strong side linebacker as his defense's premier pass rusher. It gives the appearance of a 3-4 with the strong side linebacker opposite the tight end, which means the strong side linebacker will move to the right and left sides of the formation. The bottom line is Packers defensive linemen can expect to be used more often in a gap-control scheme, which means they'll be free to penetrate and disrupt, instead of anchoring and holding the point. Muhammad Wilkerson can blend those two styles. " 

[TheBitzMan]

10 minutes ago, Beast said:

I do respect other people opinions, and I know one can learn things, but they have to know what they're talking about.

My optimism on Fackrell? ... I don't think I'm optimism on Fackrell. I've never been a fan of Fackrell (not even before his draft and thought he would of been off the Packers draft list) as he has had no power in his pass rush game and not enough speed/quickness/bend to get around the corner. 

I just realize that Fackrell was a HORRIBLE fit for how the Packers have been using the OLBers the last two years (basically they've been standup 4-3 DEs)... and Petitine has said that the OLBers will be expected to drop into coverage more... being used like a true 3-4 OLB where it's more about being versatile should help Fackrell as it plays to his strengths of being a jack of all trades and a king of nothing. Asking him to cover part-time and surprise blitz part-time should help him. 

Though what would really help Fackrell is to put some muscle on him, learn power rush moves and learn to convert speed to power... though some of that might be too late. As if guys don't know some power moves by now, usually it's because either they don't want to know or they're not mentally tough enough for them. Though, I'm not sure how Perry is going to do dropping into coverage either.... then again, I'm still waiting to see if both OLBers will be dropping into coverage more, or just one side. 

Good to know I have no idea what I am talking about because I don't agree with you. Your points on Pettine's scheme are valid and I never discounted them. I discount Fackrell the player. I would rather allocate practice time and game time to another player that is all I am saying. 

[Norm]

7 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

Good to know I have no idea what I am talking about because I don't agree with you. Your points on Pettine's scheme are valid and I never discounted them. I discount Fackrell the player. I would rather allocate practice time and game time to another player that is all I am saying. 

Hug it out

@Beast @TheBitzMan

[Beast]

22 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

Good to know I have no idea what I am talking about because I don't agree with you.

I've never said that and you're making stuff up (again). You talked about respect and learning... how to respect and learn, when you don't listen and try to put lies into other people mouths?

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

I've never said that and you're making stuff up (again). You talked about respect and learning... how to respect and learn, when you don't listen and try to put lies into other people mouths?

Hug it out your bastards!!!!!