Kirk Cousins Stuff

[Slappy Mc]

12 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Because he didn't want to be here after 2015 and 2016. He wanted out. However, the Redskins could retain his rights for 2017 by paying through the nose. And since they tagged him, he pocketed the money. Knowing that this year it would be almost $35m to keep him and he could hit free agency. The lure of being able to work where you want and make a ton of money doing it is there for pretty much all of us.

So why beat around the bush during those years. He could have said, "trade me, I don't want to be here." Instead he cashed in year after year and fed fans this BS(tick) that he wanted to be in DC and that he loved playing for the Redskins. Thats politician nonsense. I tell you this, if you don't want to be at your job, you don't suffer through it, you look for a different job. (Or in this case, ask for a trade) This BS(tick) of Cousins being "forced" to take all this money (over 50Million in two years) and good for him maximizing his money is bull honkey. If I ever had the privilege to play football professionally, which will never happen because I am a 210 LB 5'9" Caucasian Male who runs a 5.9ish 40 yard dash, I definitely wouldn't be hung up on dollars after banking 50Million in two years. That is just greedy. Period. 

18 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Russell just got top money in his recent deal.

Brees signed a 5 year, $100m deal in 2011. Which was pretty high at the time IIRC because it was right when the new CBA started and the cap didn't rise much. He recently agreed to an extension because his cap hit was gonna be $30m.

Rivers agreed to a 4 year deal for $84m in 2015. Which was before the caps started rising sharply and priced his contract out of the top.

Bortles???!! Come on man...

Russell Wilson won the SB when he got paid (and he took less money than Aaron Rodgers was making)

Drew Brees won the SB when he got paid (and was the 17th highest paid player at his position that year)

Philip Rivers in the same year Russell got his contract took the 5th highest value for the his position that year.

And as for Bortles, Knock him all you want, but he still has more playoff wins that Kirk does. He just led his team to the AFC Championship game and he is going to make (currently before all the big contracts go out) the 17th highest salary for his position.

32 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I think he cares about winning. I also think he cares about making as much money as he can for as long as he can. I'm not putting him on a pedestal. But I'm also not knocking the guy for wanting more money either. Fans that can't put aside their fandom to understand the fact that these guys do this as a job...just like those fans get paid at their job and want as much money as possible at their jobs to do them... are doing themselves a disservice by not understanding the nature of the NFL. Its a business. These players and owners aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

So you feel he deserves to be the highest paid player at his position? Just based on the fact that it is a business. SMH

[oldman9er]

I just can't get behind greed. 

I can feel for the "lesser fortunates" that are getting paid 800k and are fighting for that long-term security of a 4 yr 20 mil deal. 

That, I can truly appreciate. 

... but for someone who is coming off of 40 mil over 2 years? that's when it becomes an issue of.. just where was the gap between offer and expectation is. 

If you love where you're at.. and want to stay with the players and community? ME? I would take a little less, at that point.. to make it happen. 

I don't know what was offered back then (for sure), or how far off they were. I'm not putting a stamp on Kirk one way or another. 

Just saying... to me, after making 40 mil already? I'm not necessarily going to quibble over a few mil. If Washington wants to be pay me 23 mil per year at that point... and I love them? and some other team wants to pay me 26 mil per? I'm likely staying put. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

So why beat around the bush during those years. He could have said, "trade me, I don't want to be here." 

Because then fans like you would crap on him even more. 

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Instead he cashed in year after year and fed fans this BS(tick) that he wanted to be in DC and that he loved playing for the Redskins. Thats politician nonsense

Its also smart business. Which is what every player is in. Each player is the CEO of his own personal corporation.

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I tell you this, if you don't want to be at your job, you don't suffer through it, you look for a different job. (Or in this case, ask for a trade)

Asked and answered above. He wasn't going to get traded, and holding out is just going to damage him more for when he finally does get to FA. No team likes a player like that.

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This BS(tick) of Cousins being "forced" to take all this money (over 50Million in two years) and good for him maximizing his money is bull honkey.

Opinions differ. He was forced to take it or not play football. Given that he needed to get through the two years in order to his true FA, then he was in fact forced by the CBA to take that money.

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If I ever had the privilege to play football professionally, which will never happen because I am a 210 LB 5'9" Caucasian Male who runs a 5.9ish 40 yard dash, I definitely wouldn't be hung up on dollars after banking 50Million in two years. That is just greedy. Period.

I'm eager to pour through your life and decide what you should be paid at your job. If you ask for more than what I think you're worth, I'll call you greedy. Deal? 

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Russell Wilson won the SB when he got paid (and he took less money than Aaron Rodgers was making)

AAV... and by 100k... lol

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Drew Brees won the SB when he got paid (and was the 17th highest paid player at his position that year)

Brees $100m deal was actually in 2012. And it made him the highest paid QB. It made him $20m/year which at the time was the richest contract.

 

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Philip Rivers in the same year Russell got his contract took the 5th highest value for the his position that year.

Rivers was in the final year of a 6 year $92m contract he signed back in 2009. He then, at age 34 (4 more than Kirk), signed a contract for 4 years and $84m.

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And as for Bortles, Knock him all you want, but he still has more playoff wins that Kirk does. He just led his team to the AFC Championship game and he is going to make (currently before all the big contracts go out) the 17th highest salary for his position.

Tebow has the same number of wins. Think he's a good QB? Bortles was positively atrocious in the Buffalo game and got bailed out. 

 

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So you feel he deserves to be the highest paid player at his position? Just based on the fact that it is a business. SMH

No. Personally, I wouldn't pay him the be the highest paid player. But I'm not knocking him for trying to be. And even if he does get ot be the highest paid player, his deal will be quickly eclipsed by Rodgers, et al when they re-do their deals. This year's "overpay" is a bargain in 2 years.

[Thaiphoon]

11 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

I just can't get behind greed. 

I can feel for the "lesser fortunates" that are getting paid 800k and are fighting for that long-term security of a 4 yr 20 mil deal. 

That, I can truly appreciate. 

... but for someone who is coming off of 40 mil over 2 years? that's when it becomes an issue of.. just where was the gap between offer and expectation is. 

If you love where you're at.. and want to stay with the players and community? ME? I would take a little less, at that point.. to make it happen. 

I don't know what was offered back then (for sure), or how far off they were. I'm not putting a stamp on Kirk one way or another. 

Just saying... to me, after making 40 mil already? I'm not necessarily going to quibble over a few mil. If Washington wants to be pay me 23 mil per year at that point... and I love them? and some other team wants to pay me 26 mil per? I'm likely staying put. 

But if he wants to leave and the only way he's getting to true FA is to accept the 2nd tag, then its very smart to do so. This is what I'm saying.

[Slappy Mc]

28 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

No. Kirk played his cards right to get to Free Agency as a Pro Bowl QB...in his prime. And did it because he had to bet on himself twice and he was successful in those bets. That courage to bet on yourself is admirable. I'm in awe of him being able to take a losing hand in terms of not being able to dictate where he wants to play and turn it into one where he not only gets to pick his new team but also gets paid.

As far as "robbing the team", save it for players like Pryor.

 

But in all of your post, you COMPLETELY missed my point. My point was not that the 9ers should not have locked him up. They should've. I think he will be good for him.

My point was more to your 2nd point.

Because if you know this is your guy, you do NOT tag him!! You work out a deal. And given that Kirk has shattered the ceiling and shown QBs how to force their way to Free Agency, you recognize this and when you offer the guaranteed money, you overpay a bit more than what the player would get for the next 2 successive tags. This entices the player to sign NOW. And it saves you from tagging him twice. It keeps the cap % and AAV down (even though the guaranteed money is $10m more than the next 2 tags) and locks him up. This was smart by the 49ers and it was because of Kirk doing what he did. Like it or not, it was a very smart move by him. 

Finally, I can be a fan of this team and still recognize smart business moves. I just negotiated a $20m deal this week at work. Loved the guy. Was a groomsman at my wedding. But I still put the screws to him where I could (and so did he).

Its business.

So is the NFL.

Players are going to want to get the most money they can for the jobs they do. Just like I do. And just like everyone does.

The sooner people people realize this about their "Favorite" players , the better.

So you feel that at any cost the Redskins should have got a deal done with him. When he repeatedly said "TAG ME and we'll go from there." He was not negotiating before the tag. He wanted the money.

So this deal you negotiated at work, you feel that it was a mutual deal right? Was it the highest amount for any deal of that kind? Was the value of the deal worth the product or service being provided? When you say that he also put the screws to you, do you think that it was an actual negotiation or was it a my way or the highway kind of thing, so he settled?

I absolutely understand the nature of the business, but there is a negotiation process that happens that never happened with these contracts offered to Cousins.

It was:

Redskins: We feel you are a valuable member of our team. We want to offer you "X" dollars.

Kirk: Tag me, that doesn't work for me

Next year:

Redskins: We still value you as a member of this team and we want to get this deal done. How does "X" dollars sound?

Kirk: *Dead Air*

That is not negotiating.

Call it business if you want, but I hope that no one ever tries to "do business" like this with me.

[oldman9er]

6 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

But if he wants to leave and the only way he's getting to true FA is to accept the 2nd tag, then its very smart to do so. This is what I'm saying.

Smart, okay. Doesn't it tick you off a bit that he wanted out of DC so badly? As a fan, I'd prefer people that actually want to be on my team.

[Thaiphoon]

10 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Smart, okay. Doesn't it tick you off a bit that he wanted out of DC so badly? As a fan, I'd prefer people that actually want to be on my team.

I'd prefer them to want to be here too. So yes, the fan in me is not happy.

But the realist/pessimist in me understands that if I had to work in a toxic organization like this one, I'd want out too. So in that respect, I really can't blame him

[Slappy Mc]

10 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Because then fans like you would crap on him even more. 

Its also smart business. Which is what every player is in. Each player is the CEO of his own personal corporation.

Asked and answered above. He wasn't going to get traded, and holding out is just going to damage him more for when he finally does get to FA. No team likes a player like that.

Opinions differ. He was forced to take it or not play football. Given that he needed to get through the two years in order to his true FA, then he was in fact forced by the CBA to take that money.

I'm eager to pour through your life and decide what you should be paid at your job. If you ask for more than what I think you're worth, I'll call you greedy. Deal? 

AAV... and by 100k... lol

Brees $100m deal was actually in 2012. And it made him the highest paid QB. It made him $20m/year which at the time was the richest contract.

 

Rivers was in the final year of a 6 year $92m contract he signed back in 2009. He then, at age 34 (4 more than Kirk), signed a contract for 4 years and $84m.

Tebow has the same number of wins. Think he's a good QB? Bortles was positively atrocious in the Buffalo game and got bailed out. 

 

No. Personally, I wouldn't pay him the be the highest paid player. But I'm not knocking him for trying to be. And even if he does get ot be the highest paid player, his deal will be quickly eclipsed by Rodgers, et al when they re-do their deals. This year's "overpay" is a bargain in 2 years.

I actually feel the opposite. I beat the table for Cousins for years, because I felt he wanted to be here. I bought the lie that was sold to me, so no, I am way more upset now that he is "taking the money and running" than if we had traded him when his value would have netted us significant return. He duped the Redskins FO enough to believe he wanted to be here too.

If he demanded to be traded, I guarantee he would have been traded. You think a franchise would ride out the fate of their season when the player has voiced he didn't want to be there? Had he said how he truly felt and asked to be traded instead of just cashing in, I would definitely have been upset, but I wouldn't feel betrayed by someone who said they wanted to be here.

No he forced the tag. He refused to negotiate a deal and forced their hand. Its the same reason they had to trade for Alex Smith. No deal was going to get done and Kirk definitely doesnt warrant 35M for a 1 year rental to us.

If you would like to join the board that does exactly what you are suggesting about my job, I can get you an application for the ballot. And to the point of "ask for more than what I think you're worth," no one is debating that Cousins doesn't deserve more money, but the way Cousins went about this situation is absolutely greedy. Disagree all you want. You are obviously this fancy business man that feels that life is a business and that all mighty dollar rules all. I don't have a job that is both a competition as well as a spectator event. Kirk knew what he signed up for when he decided to play professional football.

As for Russell Wilson, he took less money on a team friendly deal. Not every player would do this. Especially not after winning a SB and being named the MVP of said Super Bowl.

I was mistaken then about Brees' deal, but he was also widely considered a top 3 QB in the NFL (Brady, Manning and Brees).

So you are going to justify Phillip Rivers deal because of age and crucify Alex Smith's cause of age... *sigh*

Bortles played well enough all year to get his team there. Absolutely that defense was a key part of it, but Bortles did not lose games on his own. At this point, statistically Tebow is a better QB than Kirk Cousins in the playoffs. Food for thought.

So you admit that a team will have to overpay to get him? And you still defend him in his "negotiation" process with the Redskins. I seriously doubt that Rodgers deal will eclipse Cousins deal, because Rodgers will resign with the Packers rather than extort them to get the most money and go to free agency. It makes a difference when you actually want to negotiate and be somewhere.

[Thaiphoon]

13 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

So you feel that at any cost the Redskins should have got a deal done with him. When he repeatedly said "TAG ME and we'll go from there." He was not negotiating before the tag. He wanted the money.

No. He was negotiating. He in fact offered them a deal right after the 2015. They offered him around $12.5m/year. Which was less than what they paid Robert to sit the bench in 2015. At no point did I say at any cost they should get a deal done. But the Redskins didn't even BEGIN to offer him anywhere close to a market deal.

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So this deal you negotiated at work, you feel that it was a mutual deal right? 

We both gave a little and were both happy and not happy at the deal. Which means it was mutual and a good deal for both sides.

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Was it the highest amount for any deal of that kind?

In a sense, yes.

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Was the value of the deal worth the product or service being provided?

We came to an agreement, so according to both sides, yes.

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When you say that he also put the screws to you, do you think that it was an actual negotiation or was it a my way or the highway kind of thing, so he settled?

He stood firm on some things. So did I. We also gave on some things.

As for the deal, what he didn't do was offer an insultingly lowball offer. Because, extremely close friend or not, I would've said something akin to your last .gif to him and no deal would've been struck. 

Now, transpose that here. The Redskins offered insultingly lowball offers for 2 years in a row. The offers themselves were not serious offers and were not starters for counter negotiations. Because they telegraphed that the team didn't want him here unless it could get him for a song. So, I don't blame him one bit for the path he took.

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I absolutely understand the nature of the business, but there is a negotiation process that happens that never happened with these contracts offered to Cousins.

See above. If I'm selling you a 2018 Shelby Mustang and your offer to me is $5,000, I'm not going to counter that offer. I'm going to tell you to get out of my face. Because I know you're not serious in getting a deal done with me.

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It was:

Redskins: We feel you are a valuable member of our team. We want to offer you "X" dollars.

Kirk: Tag me, that doesn't work for me

Next year:

Redskins: We still value you as a member of this team and we want to get this deal done. How does "X" dollars sound?

Kirk: *Dead Air*

That is not negotiating.

Call it business if you want, but I hope that no one ever tries to "do business" like this with me.

 

See my responses above. What you have posted is literally not what happened. Two years in a row they offered well below market value for him.  Had they done so, then negotiations would've happened. Especially since Kirk was the one to approach the Redskins after 2015 with a deal that had $44m guaranteed.

[Jeezy Fanatic]

Everyone likes to tell people how they should feel about money when it doesn’t affect their own paycheck. I’m not going to fault a guy for maximizing his value, especially when the Redskins blew the negotiations so badly

[Slappy Mc]

4 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

See my responses above. What you have posted is literally not what happened. Two years in a row they offered well below market value for him.  Had they done so, then negotiations would've happened. Especially since Kirk was the one to approach the Redskins after 2015 with a deal that had $44m guaranteed.

Prove this.

Like I said, obviously you are only a businessman and feel that Kirk was right in every aspect. And more power to you too. If Kirk wanted to be here, he would have negotiated. Heck, he might have even taken a reasonable offer instead of extorting his way to FA.

[oldman9er]

8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

See above. If I'm selling you a 2018 Shelby Mustang and your offer to me is $5,000, I'm not going to counter that offer. I'm going to tell you to get out of my face. Because I know you're not serious in getting a deal done with me.

Yes, please. If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see how close this is to the reality of the prior negotiations with Kirk. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

I actually feel the opposite. I beat the table for Cousins for years, because I felt he wanted to be here. I bought the lie that was sold to me, so no, I am way more upset now that he is "taking the money and running" than if we had traded him when his value would have netted us significant return. He duped the Redskins FO enough to believe he wanted to be here too.

You're mad that he is leaving for no compensation? Blame the F.O. 

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If he demanded to be traded, I guarantee he would have been traded. You think a franchise would ride out the fate of their season when the player has voiced he didn't want to be there? Had he said how he truly felt and asked to be traded instead of just cashing in, I would definitely have been upset, but I wouldn't feel betrayed by someone who said they wanted to be here. he forced the tag. He refused to negotiate a deal and forced their hand. Its the same reason they had to trade for Alex Smith. No deal was going to get done and Kirk definitely doesnt warrant 35M for a 1 year rental to us.

For 2017, you bet he forced the tag. He knew the Redskins didn't want him due to their ridiculous offers. So his choice was to accept the lowball offer and stick wit the toxic organization...or get tagged, make $24m, and be a free agent in a year.

Forgive me if I'm not mad at someone who takes option #2. Any player would.

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If you would like to join the board that does exactly what you are suggesting about my job, I can get you an application for the ballot. And to the point of "ask for more than what I think you're worth," no one is debating that Cousins doesn't deserve more money, but the way Cousins went about this situation is absolutely greedy. Disagree all you want. You are obviously this fancy business man that feels that life is a business and that all mighty dollar rules all. I don't have a job that is both a competition as well as a spectator event. Kirk knew what he signed up for when he decided to play professional football.

Its still a job. He's still the talent and CEO of his personal corporation. If your worth is $80k a year and other companies are paying more than that, are you going to take $65k a year just because the kid that comes to see you at your job thinks you should?

 

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As for Russell Wilson, he took less money on a team friendly deal. Not every player would do this. Especially not after winning a SB and being named the MVP of said Super Bowl.

You said that he wouldn't break the bank. He literally took top 2 money.

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I was mistaken then about Brees' deal, but he was also widely considered a top 3 QB in the NFL (Brady, Manning and Brees).

You said that he wouldn't break the bank. He literally got the richest contract in NFL history at that point

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So you are going to justify Phillip Rivers deal because of age and crucify Alex Smith's cause of age... *sigh*

Nope. I'm saying the only reason Rivers didn't get more than $84m was his age.

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So you admit that a team will have to overpay to get him? And you still defend him in his "negotiation" process with the Redskins. I seriously doubt that Rodgers deal will eclipse Cousins deal, because Rodgers will resign with the Packers rather than extort them to get the most money and go to free agency. It makes a difference when you actually want to negotiate and be somewhere.

Teams always "overpay" when they sign players to the richest contracts in the NFL. that's the nature of signing the richest contract. Not sure how this is hard to understand.

As for Rodgers, we will see. I can see him getting around $30m. I can also see top 5 QB contracts going to $35m in about 5-7 years.

And now this...

Bortles played well enough all year to get his team there. Absolutely that defense was a key part of it, but Bortles did not lose games on his own. At this point, statistically Tebow is a better QB than Kirk Cousins in the playoffs. Food for thought.

Yeah, ok...I think we're done here if you're going to seriously argue that Tebow is a better QB. I mean I understand defending your point but this is literally grasping for EVERY straw in the world.

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

Everyone likes to tell people how they should feel about money when it doesn’t affect their own paycheck. I’m not going to fault a guy for maximizing his value, especially when the Redskins blew the negotiations so badly

Thank you Jeezy for eloquently putting what it took me 5 posts to say.

[Slappy Mc]

Just now, Jeezy Fanatic said:

Everyone likes to tell people how they should feel about money when it doesn’t affect their own paycheck. I’m not going to fault a guy for maximizing his value, especially when the Redskins blew the negotiations so badly

So if you made 50 Million in two years you would feel that somehow negotiating a contract for lets say 24M/Year is going to hurt your pockets. Seriously, how people defend these athletes who make millions of dollars and whine about not getting paid enough, or about anything at all is laughable to me.