Kirk Cousins Stuff

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Prove this.

Like I said, obviously you are only a businessman and feel that Kirk was right in every aspect. And more power to you too. If Kirk wanted to be here, he would have negotiated. Heck, he might have even taken a reasonable offer instead of extorting his way to FA.

Understand something. As @turtle28 will point out to you, I side with the owners quite a lot of the time. 

But here you go. I was off by a few dollars.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/09/redskins-rejected-19m-cousins-deal/

 

[oldman9er]

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w/ significant guarantees."

The Redskins weren’t interested in budging from their much lower number because of the substantial guarantees in the deal, which would make it hard for the team to move on from Cousins in the future

 

I wonder just how much guaranteed he was after. 

 

[Thaiphoon]

6 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

So if you made 50 Million in two years you would feel that somehow negotiating a contract for lets say 24M/Year is going to hurt your pockets. Seriously, how people defend these athletes who make millions of dollars and whine about not getting paid enough, or about anything at all is laughable to me.

This is akin to telling someone

 

"Hey, you should sell your Corvette for $50k"

"Why? It's worth $85k"

"Because my car is only worth $1,200. Stop being greedy".

[Thaiphoon]

4 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

I wonder just how much guaranteed he was after. 

 

It was reported that he wasn' seeking any higher than $50m. Some reports said $44m, some said $48m IIRC.

Here is a primer on how badly the Redskins screwed this up.

You literally have to try to be this bad at negotiating.

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/redskins-totally-botched-kirk-cousins-contract-debacle-235254094.html

[Slappy Mc]

2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

You're mad that he is leaving for no compensation? Blame the F.O. 

For 2017, you bet he forced the tag. He knew the Redskins didn't want him due to their ridiculous offers. So his choice was to accept the lowball offer and stick wit the toxic organization...or get tagged, make $24m, and be a free agent in a year.

Forgive me if I'm not mad at someone who takes option #2. Any player would.

Its still a job. He's still the talent and CEO of his personal corporation. If your worth is $80k a year and other companies are paying more than that, are you going to take $65k a year just because the kid that comes to see you at your job thinks you should?

 

You said that he wouldn't break the bank. He literally took top 2 money.

You said that he wouldn't break the bank. He literally got the richest contract in NFL history at that point

Nope. I'm saying the only reason Rivers didn't get more than $84m was his age.

Teams always "overpay" when they sign players to the richest contracts in the NFL. that's the nature of signing the richest contract. Not sure how this is hard to understand.

As for Rodgers, we will see. I can see him getting around $30m. I can also see top 5 QB contracts going to $35m in about 5-7 years.

And now this...

Yeah, ok...I think we're done here if you're going to seriously argue that Tebow is a better QB. I mean I understand defending your point but this is literally grasping for EVERY straw in the world.

I'm actually not upset he is leaving for no compensation (that is to be determined when comp picks are awarded next year). I am however upset that this guy is being looked at by fans like you, like he is this financial mogul and he is a pioneer for QBs for years to come for lying openly to a company about his intentions and extorting as much money as he could. Yeah, good for him.

To your point about it being a job, it is absolutely a different situation. But in your scenario, there would be a lot of factors that I would weigh into the decision of moving from a job that pays 65k as opposed to the 80k. It is what it is though. You view things differently than I do. Obviously you feel the same as Kirk. So more power to both of you.

I actually said they weren't the top paid player at their position and I was only wrong about Brees. Factored in that those two players were Super Bowl winning QBs and MVPs of those Super Bowls, but w/e.

I did not say Tebow was a better QB in general. I said, that "statistically" Tebow is a better QB in the post season. And if you can't grasp those facts, thats on you.

You and I are in agreement that Kirk is a good QB. We are not in agreement however about how he handled this situation and the ending result.

I obviously live my life a little differently and view money differently. That doesn't make your opinion any less right to you. I will raise my kids to not view money the way you and Kirk do though. I have explained to them about value of oneself and I agree with personal value along the lines that you are speaking, but only to an extent. I won't continue trying to debate a subject that I appear to be in the minority about. I will stay in my financial lane as Kevin Hart says.

However, if you are that good of a negotiator, you should consider applying for the Redskins FO.

[Slappy Mc]

11 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

This is akin to telling someone

 

"Hey, you should sell your Corvette for $50k"

"Why? It's worth $85k"

"Because my car is only worth $1,200. Stop being greedy".

I am a nobody, who posts on this forum. However, when these athletes are set for life financially and their children are already set, yes I do think that complaining about "a few million" is greedy. I am not correlating this situation to my current situation in any context. My paycheck does not matter in comparison to his. I am simply stating that when you get to a certain dollar amount financially that makes you set for your entire life, your children for their entire lives and possibly your childrens' children set for their lives, maybe accepting less isnt such a bad thing.

19 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Understand something. As @turtle28 will point out to you, I side with the owners quite a lot of the time. 

But here you go. I was off by a few dollars.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/09/redskins-rejected-19m-cousins-deal/

 

You proved me wrong. I do believe the Redskins (in hindsight) botched the deal right there. However that was Kirk's first year as a starter and I can understand not being sold on him. That being said, the Redskins obviously made the wrong decision and have been "literally" paying through the nose ever since.

[Thaiphoon]

20 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I'm actually not upset he is leaving for no compensation (that is to be determined when comp picks are awarded next year). I am however upset that this guy is being looked at by fans like you, like he is this financial mogul and he is a pioneer for QBs for years to come 

Never said he was a mogul. But show me another QB that forced his way out of a place he didn't want to be an into free agency during his prime. Its literally the Shangri-La of every QB. And he was able to achieve it. That I respect.

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for lying openly to a company about his intentions and extorting as much money as he could. Yeah, good for him.

Oh I see. So going back to buying a car. Do you tell the salesman how much you want the car and will pay top dollar for it as you're test driving it? Or do you keep it close to the vest as you're negotiating? If the latter? Good for you. If the former, I know some car salespeople who would love to meet you.

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To your point about it being a job, it is absolutely a different situation. But in your scenario, there would be a lot of factors that I would weigh into the decision of moving from a job that pays 65k as opposed to the 80k. It is what it is though. You view things differently than I do. Obviously you feel the same as Kirk. So more power to both of you.

Its really not a different situation. You are telling Kirk that he's greedy for not taking a lowball deal just because he's made "x" dollars in his lifetime. Doesn't work like that.

 

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I actually said they weren't the top paid player at their position and I was only wrong about Brees. Factored in that those two players were Super Bowl winning QBs and MVPs of those Super Bowls, but w/e.

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You don't see players like Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers or even Blake Bortles demanding to be the top paid player or to be tagged.

That's YOUR quote ^^^. They did get to be the top paid (or close to it). And none of them had finished their final year on their deal so the tag was not in question.

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I did not say Tebow was a better QB in general. I said, that "statistically" Tebow is a better QB in the post season. And if you can't grasp those facts, thats on you.

LOL - He's not even statistically better than Kirk. I should tell you to stop digging that hole, but I'm gonna let you keep shovelling.

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You and I are in agreement that Kirk is a good QB. We are not in agreement however about how he handled this situation and the ending result.

Correct. I think he did the best he could given the situation and turned a losing hand into a winning one.

 

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I obviously live my life a little differently and view money differently. That doesn't make your opinion any less right to you. I will raise my kids to not view money the way you and Kirk do though. I have explained to them about value of oneself and I agree with personal value along the lines that you are speaking, but only to an extent. I won't continue trying to debate a subject that I appear to be in the minority about. I will stay in my financial lane as Kevin Hart says.

You might need more straw for this:

 

I've said nothing about how I view money. Nor have I said anything about how I have taught my daughter about it. But let me tell you a few things. I know it cannot buy happiness. I know that my self worth and honor are worth more than every dollar in the world. My family is priceless as is their opinions of me. But I also know that money is a tool. And business is business. Seeking my worth in a contract does not mean I prize money above everything. 

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However, if you are that good of a negotiator, you should consider applying for the Redskins FO.

Yes. I should. Because I would've had Cuz locked up in 2015 when I first suggested we do so.

[aceinthehouse]

Well, regardless of how you all feel about Bruce whether he failed in the contractual stuff, compensation or whatever?

And whether he intended for it to happen or not, you got to give him credit for 1 thing?

He didn't cave in to a non-winning big game, loser primetime, need respect because I was drafted to be a backup, I'll show you to a team that gave him a chance, angry with the world, I got issues, I push referees in flag football games, nobody is worth my services, narcissist.

Hate Brucey all ya want, but he got this one right.

And now we have a more physically gifted Cousins at 33/34 yrs old.

Under contract=Alex Smith

And without all the psychological head issues that Cousins has.

[Thaiphoon]

8 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I am a nobody, who posts on this forum. However, when these athletes are set for life financially and their children are already set, yes I do think that complaining about "a few million" is greedy. I am not correlating this situation to my current situation in any context. My paycheck does not matter in comparison to his. I am simply stating that when you get to a certain dollar amount financially that makes you set for your entire life, your children for their entire lives and possibly your childrens' children set for their lives, maybe accepting less isnt such a bad thing.

And for me, I agree with you and would do it as well if I'm set and it has passed a certain threshold (every man has his price and every man has had enough). But I'm not going to knock someone for having a different threshold than me. That's my point.

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You proved me wrong. I do believe the Redskins (in hindsight) botched the deal right there. However that was Kirk's first year as a starter and I can understand not being sold on him. That being said, the Redskins obviously made the wrong decision and have been "literally" paying through the nose ever since.

We agree here. I think we could've locked him up easily after 2015. And truth be told, I'm glad we didn't tag him this offseason. I literally didn't want to pay him $35m

[Slappy Mc]

5 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

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I actually said they weren't the top paid player at their position and I was only wrong about Brees. Factored in that those two players were Super Bowl winning QBs and MVPs of those Super Bowls, but w/e.

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You don't see players like Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers or even Blake Bortles demanding to be the top paid player or to be tagged.

That's YOUR quote ^^^. They did get to be the top paid (or close to it). And none of them had finished their final year on their deal so the tag was not in question.

Yes and their performance (SB/Playoff wins (beisdes Phillip Rivers who did not make the playoffs when he signed his extension)) warranted a contract of the value they got, but aside from Drew Brees (who I mistakenly got the year wrong), they were not the highest paid at the position, even by a slight margin. I would almost bet the farm that Cousins will not settle for anything less than the highest paid period.

11 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

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I did not say Tebow was a better QB in general. I said, that "statistically" Tebow is a better QB in the post season. And if you can't grasp those facts, thats on you.

LOL - He's not even statistically better than Kirk. I should tell you to stop digging that hole, but I'm gonna let you keep shovelling.

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Quarterback A: 2 Games Played - 452 Passing Yards 2 Touchdowns 0 Interceptions 90.0 QBR 63 Rush Yards 1 Rushing Touchdown

Quarterback B: 2 Games Played - 360 Passing Yards 1 Touchdown 0 Interceptions 82.4 QBR 2 Rush Yards 1 Rushing Touchdown

Any guesses which quarterback is which? The main difference between these two quarterbacks is that Tebow actually won one of his games.

Tebow/Quarterback A passed for more yards, touchdowns, had a higher QB Rating and ran for more yards than Kirk Cousins, but yea, statistically he wasn't better.

18 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I've said nothing about how I view money. Nor have I said anything about how I have taught my daughter about it. But let me tell you a few things. I know it cannot buy happiness. I know that my self worth and honor are worth more than every dollar in the world. My family is priceless as is their opinions of me. But I also know that money is a tool. And business is business. Seeking my worth in a contract does not mean I prize money above everything. 

You have repeatedly spoke about financials from the business standpoint. I simply deduced from your opinions that you have rendered here (and the personal experience that you shared) how you felt about money. I agree with everything you said about family and I definitely understand money is a tool. But it is also a vice that people use to fill their need for excessive wealth. At no point did I say that Kirk shouldn't have a high self worth, but as you have said in your next post, their is a threshold. I do disagree about knocking someone else's threshold. When is enough, enough? I am not going to knock you for defending him and taking a lawyers approach to the situation. I have watched the value of a dollar change dramatically my whole life and I know my family could live comfortably for a long time off of 1/10th of the amount of money he has made for the past two years. Maybe you are right that I shouldn't call him greedy, but I am my own person and I see things differently.

I do not wish Kirk ill-will. I do not want him to not succeed. I sincerely hope that his departure from the Redskins is not about $$$ because, like I said, I had a high opinion of him for the past couple years and beat on the table, like you did, for us to extend him. That mentality, money first, whether or not you make a lot of money, is greedy in my mind.

[Doc Draper]

2 hours ago, oldman9er said:

I just can't get behind greed. 

I can feel for the "lesser fortunates" that are getting paid 800k and are fighting for that long-term security of a 4 yr 20 mil deal. 

That, I can truly appreciate. 

... but for someone who is coming off of 40 mil over 2 years? that's when it becomes an issue of.. just where was the gap between offer and expectation is. 

If you love where you're at.. and want to stay with the players and community? ME? I would take a little less, at that point.. to make it happen. 

I don't know what was offered back then (for sure), or how far off they were. I'm not putting a stamp on Kirk one way or another. 

Just saying... to me, after making 40 mil already? I'm not necessarily going to quibble over a few mil. If Washington wants to be pay me 23 mil per year at that point... and I love them? and some other team wants to pay me 26 mil per? I'm likely staying put. 

It’s not greed. I can understand how it can be mistaken for that and difficult for some guy busting his tail making 50k a year to not understand why a guy making 24m isn’t happy about that. That guy won’t also understand how a guy making a few million a year feels either But keep in mind that a guy making 30k a year also can’t understand why a guy making 50k isn’t happy either. 

Peter Brand said it best when he said it’s not just the money, “ it what the money says” 

and being the highest paid player speaks loud and clearly especially to someone who has been under appreciated. 

Speaking off money, what’s with this annoying Fios ad that keeps appearing on this site? Aren’t the rich guys who own this site making enough money so they can stop bombarding me with Fios? Bro’s even this site “ it’s about the money” and I say we advocate for Thai and Woz @Thaiphoon @Woz to start getting paid for making rich owners richer

 

 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

 

Any guesses which quarterback is which? The main difference between these two quarterbacks is that Tebow actually won one of his games.

Tebow/Quarterback A passed for more yards, touchdowns, had a higher QB Rating and ran for more yards than Kirk Cousins, but yea, statistically he wasnt better

Tim Tebow's stats:

http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/careerstats

 

Kirk Cousins stats:

http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats

 

Care to show me where Tebow is statistically better??

If you're counting the lucky game vs. The Steelers that's on par with the Saints/Vikings game this past playoffs at the end. Tebow looked like crap. His team kept him in the game. A unlucky blown coverage and poor tackling effort on that last pass lost the game for Pittsburgh.

Wins and losses are not a QB stat. They are a team stat 

 

[Slappy Mc]

8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Tim Tebow's stats:

http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/careerstats

 

Kirk Cousins stats:

http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats

 

Care to show me where Tebow is statistically better??

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00/gamelog/post/

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00/gamelog/post/

You clearly missed the "post season" that I posted... Posting regular season numbers means nothing to this argument. Of course Cousins is the better QB, but Tebow has the edge statistically in the post season regardless of how you feel about him as a QB.

[Slappy Mc]

19 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Wins and losses are not a QB stat. They are a team stat

*cough* https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html *cough*

[aceinthehouse]

Want to know what's funny?

1 QB wouldn't take any amount of money to stay & remain a Redskin, even though he had zero Post Season success.

He would rather hit FA no matter the consequence's & decide his own fate. To choose his destination of his future & to be paid a Kings ransom for it.

The other QB played for a team that were continuous winners for 5 years straight. He chose & wanted to play for the Redskins & promptly agreed to a long term extension.

Knowing this was probably his last destination, he chose to end his career as a Redskin. He didn't want to hit FA because he already knew, what team he wanted to be traded too.

Funny, we have 2 QB's so much alike in their QB skill set, yet so much different in their mind set.