Patriots trade WR Brandon Cooks to Rams

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, DeSean Jackson said:

Nick Foles was 27-2 in his second year. We will see what happens

Nick Foles played in a gimmicky offense that was new to the NFL before teams adjusted to it. Feel free to go through all of the QBs in NFL history who produced like Goff as a second-year pro. You're trying to treat the exception as the rule. That's not very smart imo. Hell, your logic applies as much to Wentz as Goff.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Enjoy Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Aaron Dobson, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, and Josh Boyce. 

Notably less enjoyable than Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola, Chris Hogan and [insert RB nobody ever heard of that's gonna catch 75 passes next season].

Belly has been doing Belly things since Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were a thing - he has some misses, but he has some hits too.

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Notably less enjoyable than Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola, Chris Hogan and [insert RB nobody ever heard of that's gonna catch 75 passes next season].

Belly has been doing Belly things since Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce were a thing - he has some misses, but he has some hits too.

His hits have been on TEs, HBs, and slot WRs. Outside of that, it's basically all whiffs except for Moss and arguably Hogan. And let's not forget that Belly traded a 1st for Cooks and tried to extend him.

On the other hand, McVay is one of the game's most brilliant offensive minds, and we all saw what he did with the Rams WR corps last year. Yea, I'm trusting McVay's evaluation of Cooks over Belichick's. But then again, they both evaluated him as being worth a first round pick.

And frankly, the only risk here is extending Cooks. He's a 24 year old WR with 3 1000+ yard seasons under his belt. We don't have to do a lot of evaluating here.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

On the other hand, McVay is one of the game's most brilliant offensive minds, and we all saw what he did with the Rams WR corps last year. Yea, I'm trusting McVay's evaluation of Cooks over Belichick's. But then again, they both evaluated him as being worth a first round pick.

But both Belicheck and Sean Payton (another HC who has significantly more experience and results over McVay) didn't feel as if Cooks was worth it for their long term plans. Neither of the Hall of Fame QBs seemed to bat an eye, either. (Guys who were playing at a high level when McVay was in High School).

If you're betting on McVay, that's cool. Just understand there are guys with much better resumes that waved good bye when that ship sailed.

[jrry32]

Just now, EliteTexan80 said:

But both Belicheck and Sean Payton (another HC who has significantly more experience and results over McVay) didn't feel as if Cooks was worth it for their long term plans. Neither of the Hall of Fame QBs seemed to bat an eye, either. (Guys who were playing at a high level when McVay was in High School).

If you're betting on McVay, that's cool. Just understand there are guys with much better resumes that waved good bye when that ship sailed.

Both of them waived bye for obvious reasons. 24 years old and three straight 1000+ yard seasons. There's not a lot to evaluate here. But yea, I will bet on McVay. He's earned it. It's too bad we couldn't get Cooks last year when we tried. 

I'm also not sure how a HOF QB is supposed to bat an eye.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'm also not sure how a HOF QB is supposed to bat an eye.

Check Brees' reaction when Jimmy Graham was traded or when Darren Sproles was let go. Brady might be more stoic, but Brees puts his thoughts out for anyone to see.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Check Brees' reaction when Jimmy Graham was traded or when Darren Sproles was let go. Brady might be more stoic, but Brees puts his thoughts out for anyone to see.

From what I recall, Cooks was being a PITA because he was bitter about Thomas eating into his targets. That's why NO traded him. NE traded him because they didn't want to pay his asking price. That's typical of Belichick for players who are coming up on FA, see Chandler Jones, Jaime Collins, and his attempts to trade Butler. Nobody doubts Cooks' ability on the field, and McVay masterfully dealt with Sammy Watkins' diva behavior last year, so I'm not worried about Cooks.

[game3525]

Quote

Peters was such a head case that the Chiefs still took him high in the draft despite his red flags coming out of college. Plus you don’t think Kelce can be a head case of a different variety? The Chiefs gave him an extension.

And yet they traded him for a bag of peanuts. 

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Cooks might not be a true number one but nobody outside of Moss has been a true number one for the Pats. The Pats have a bunch of either number twos, slot guys, or guys who might one day develop into a number one but they aren’t at this particular time. What Cooks did do is become the only guy to average 16.6 ypc in the Brady-era. Edelman is coming off a serious injury and Gronk is always banged up. So you can’t just put all your hopes on them. 14m per year for Cooks is a discount compared to what other receivers are making that’s not even highly productive as Cooks. I get not paying him only if the Pats never trades for him. Like what did they expect to happen? He didn’t change body height weight or playing style. He was productive even in a year he was learning to play with a new QB. You know he was going to want some money, even if it wasn’t breaking the bank like Watkins or Robinson. And isn’t it a coincidence the Pats traded their 1st round pick for him which turned out to be Ramsyzc (considered by many including myself to be the best OT in the 2017 draft and played well last season for the Saints) and the Pats lost Solder and is scrambling to find a OT? I know it’s hindsight but I find it ironic lol.

Gronk and Edelman have missed time and yet the Pats offense hasn't really lost a beat. They won the Super Bowl without Gronk in 2016 and then made the AFC championship with Edelman being hobbled in 2015. Cooks YPC is impressive, but he isn't a guy you can build your passing game around. And I don't think 14 million is a discount at all (that is the same amount as what AJ is making and Keenan Allen makes 11, two guys who are bonafide number ones). It is especially not a discount for a guy who ends up being the third wheel in the offense.

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Yea, I'm gonna go ahead and trust McVay's assessment here.

Cool.

And I will trust Sean Payton and Bill Belichick. 

[ET80]

10 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

From what I recall, Cooks was being a PITA because he was bitter about Thomas eating into his targets. That's why NO traded him. NE traded him because they didn't want to pay his asking price. That's typical of Belichick for players who are coming up on FA, see Chandler Jones, Jaime Collins, and his attempts to trade Butler. Nobody doubts Cooks' ability on the field, and McVay masterfully dealt with Sammy Watkins' diva behavior last year, so I'm not worried about Cooks.

I fully understand the reasoning behind Payton's move and Belly's move. My logic is that - despite his talents - two very well respected HCs would rather take their chances on an unknown quantity in a first round pick vs dealing with Cooks, whether it be over targets or money. We've seen both make it work in similar situations (Mark Ingram was upset with touches, so Payton released AP and focused on a dual attack with Ingram/Kamara. Likewise, Belicheck paid Aaron Hernandez above market value for a #2 TE). They didn't put too much effort in appeasing Cooks, from the looks of it.

Something like this happens once, you shrug your shoulders. Twice? Hmm, raise an eyebrow. 

We'll see if stop #3 is the charm, I guess.

[EL Guapo]

Too many cooks on the Rams? Somebody had to do it

[jrry32]

16 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Cool.

And I will trust Sean Payton and Bill Belichick. 

Cool. I'll trust the guy who helmed the #1 scoring offense in the NFL after it finished #32 the year before, the guy who managed to turn arguably the NFL's worst WR corp in 2016 into one of the best in 2017, and the guy who turned a supposed bust QB and bust HB into one of the NFL's best young QBs and into arguably the NFL's best HB. Oh right, that person is Sean McVay. I guess McVay will have a lot of people eating crow yet again this year.

[game3525]

Just now, jrry32 said:

Cool. Ill trust the guy who helmed the #1 scoring offense in the NFL after it finished #32 the year before, the guy who managed to turn arguably the NFL's worst WR corp in 2016 into one of the best in 2017, and the guy who turned a supposed bust QB and bust HB into one of the NFL's best young QB and into arguably the NFL's best HB. Oh right, that person is Sean McVay. I guess McVay will have a lot of people eating crow yet again this year.

Come on, Jrry. 

[ET80]

8 minutes ago, game3525 said:

Come on, Jrry. 

*Shrug*

More power to him, I say. At this rate, Sean McVay might be approaching Keith Rivers territory...

...Playboy. 

[Soko]

5 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Ok I’m not saying all those points aren’t valid, it just feels like for an organization who for over a decade is a dynasty players shouldn’t be walking out the door the Pats were serious about keeping them. You gave some great examples of the Pats giving some players their big pay day but the classic one is Welker. Didn’t Brady specifically take a pay cut to keep him and when the Pats didn’t, wasn’t he really upset?

It’s a fair point - like I said, they’re stingy. They’re more strict about paying players that are both young but also buy into their system/‘the Patriot Way’, and not usually anybody else. 

I don’t remember if Tom specifically did it for Wes, but he took restructured (which is different than an outright pay cut). It wouldn’t surprise me if he had wanted to keep Wes when he agreed to do so, but I don’t believe there was ever anything that outright said it was for Welker. Although like I said, Welker was an older player (really only played 2 more successful seasons after NE) and was previously benched for the beginning of a game for some comments he made to the media (minor incident, but noteworthy). Welker wasn’t the young, ‘Patriot Way’ type guy that NE will really pay for. 

5 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Or even when the Pats traded Moss for next to nothing and he set records for the Pats but when it was time to pay up they didn’t and shipped him off.

Similar to Wes, Moss was at the end of the year and began being particularly talkative to the media about his contract situation. If you recall, Moss was a completely unproductive and unmotivated player after leaving NE. He wasn’t worth a big payday. 

5 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Like again you make valid points and maybe it’s just them not paying up on mostly receivers, but when guys like that go plus you made a case for Jones but also they shipped Collins out too and they could’ve used either or both in the Superbowl to get some pressure on Foles, it doesn’t add up.

I agree, both Jones and Collins would’ve helped a lot this year. They essentially represent two of the biggest needs on defense (athletic LB, and pass rusher/edge defender). It’s just the context of the two didn’t allow them to stay - Jones more so than Collins. I like Chandler and wish he was here, but he wasn’t a dependable player especially in the second half of seasons/playoffs, and the Patriots couldn’t afford to give him $16.5M at the current pace he was at with his career. 

He obviously took for in Arizona and proved to be worth it, but the risk of giving him that deal and getting more of the same wasn’t worth it to a team that had upcoming FAs.

5 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Like it wouldn’t shock me if Chubb falls to 6 (Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Barkley, Nelson in the top 5) and the Pats package their picks to the Colts who are gathering picks to build their roster around Luck and the Pats move all the way up for Chubb. Like to me I know Belichick loves him and now have the ammo if they choose and the situation happens to move up to get him. That happens because the Pats let those pass rushers walk out the door. Say what you want about Jones, he is a STUD. Again you follow the Pats closer than I do, but this is my outside perspective that I see and ponder over many years lol. Hey not the Pats strategy hasn’t worked, but don’t you wonder sometimes when it’s going finally catch up to them?

I’d be pretty surprised if the Pats moved into the top 12, I don’t think they have the ammo for it. It’d take a future first IMO and I doubt Belichick would give away 3 first rounders for one player - especially when the team needs a lot of younger talent on the defensive side of the ball. 

But yes, Belichick isn’t perfect. I am/was upset Jimmy had to go (and only for a second), but I understand they couldn’t pay him and also couldn’t force Brady out. I am/was upset about Jones (and only for a second), but I understood his second half impact and inconsistency. I am/was upset about Collins, and to be honest, I would’ve liked him back. There were reports that he free lanced too much for Belichick’s liking and maybe they didn’t want to pay a guy who didn’t always follow the scheme, but from a fan who has limited knowledge on the intriciacies, it sucked. Anyway, Belichick makes questionable moves but he won’t marry himself to a player most of the time. It sucks seeing players that I love leave or get traded, but at the end of the day I accept Belichick’s judgement and would rather let go of a guy/not pay him more than he’s worth than get burned on bad contracts.

Youre not wrong that the Patriots don’t pay guys as much as many other teams, but they will when it’s the players that buy in, are youngish, smart, and productive.

[Non-Issue]

19 hours ago, Gmen said:

Maybe it’s because the giants have picked up a few former rams in the past couple of years, or maybe it’s because the rams have had so much roster turnover in general, but i’ve noticed rams fans in particular love to drink their teams cool aid.  It’s common among fans, but it seems particularly strong amongst rams fans. Whoever their team dumps is a bum, whoever it brings in is going to be a stud.  A few days ago they were discussing whether the 23rd pick for OBJ is a good deal. Instead they get the ~20th best receiver in the league, and it seems the majority of them are on board.  Nobody seems to even question  why two of the more prolific offenses in the league traded him away. 

Dude... what are you talking about???

Take a look in these threads and show me the Rams fans that are pimping Tree when he got his extension.

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/3335-rams-sign-alec-ogletree-to-4-year-extension/

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/topic/3334-rams-sign-alec-ogletree-to-4-year-extension/?page=2

I think someone owes the whole class an apology.