turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said: Should we trade Wall and... can we trade Wall (and for what)... are two separate but related questions. Just because Ted won't (possibly) trade him doesn't do you any favors. Should we trade him? Absolutely. Do you disagree? Can we trade him (and for what)? This is a tougher question. Again, forget that dope Ted. I've seen trade returns all over the board. LA isn't a possibility as all indications point toward them saving up for Anthony Davis. And AD or Wall... AD please. NY makes sense. I don't need an all-star back in return. Moving on from Wall means moving on from 1) inconsistency; 2) a poor locker room leader; 3) a guy that blames others; 4) an underperformer; and 5) the worst contact on this team. I’ve been pretty clear, I wouldn’t trade Wall or Beal unless I got something great back in return. Debatable if Walls contract is worse than Porter’s. Porter plays like a reserve and gets paid like All-NBA. Edited December 21, 2018 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: I’ve been pretty clear, I wouldn’t trade Wall or Beal unless I got something great back in return. Debatable if Walls contract is worse than Porter’s. Porter plays like a reserve and gets paid like All-NBA. Porter without Wall is very, very good. We'll have to disagree with the trade return to justify trading Wall. Moving his contract, alone, is good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) ESPN threw out a random trade idea for Wall, I actually thought it was a pretty good trade for both sides: San Antonio Receives PG John Wall Wizards Receive PG Dejounte Murray SG Lonnie Walker IV C Pau Gasol So the Wizards get a new starting PG in Murray, who's more of a past first guy that can defer to Beal and Porter. Lonnie Walker is a rookie on the first year of a cheap 4 year deal, @Jeezy Fanatic would probably like to see him on the Wizards. Gasol is thrown in to make the salaries work, but could bolster the Wizards bench this year. Gasol's contract for 19-20 is only partially guaranteed for $6.7 mil more. San Antonio does it because Wall gets to pair with two other vets in DeRozan and Aldridge, and they hope the Spurs culture can get the most out of Wall. I think the Wizards would be crazy not to do this deal. Edited December 21, 2018 by MKnight82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said: Porter without Wall is very, very good. We'll have to disagree with the trade return to justify trading Wall. Moving his contract, alone, is good enough for me. Might want to check this years game logs, which is what’s relevant. I don’t care what Beal and Porter did for a few weeks of last year when Wall first had his knee surgery bc them carrying the team last year was a flash in the pan for a few weeks at the end of Jan & behining of Feb. Wall has missed 2 games this year that Otto played in: 1. ATL: 20 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts. So great, one great game against one of the worst teams in the NBA - and yes I realize we inexplicably just lost to them - In fact his best game of the year and most of last year. 2. IND: Wall missed this game. My guess is this is the game Porter got hurt because his stats were awful: 0 pts, 2 rebs & 1 ast. So, not exactly a large enough sample size here, but I know this much, the Wizards team is better when Wall plays. Also, I could really care less if Otto can’t find a way to score points/co-exist with Wall and actually knock down some open 3s this year. It is a personal problem Porter has and why in hindsight I’ve changed my opinion of him as far as deserving the Max. We should’ve let Porter leave and re-signed Bogdonavic for 2 years, $21 million. Edited December 21, 2018 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Might want to check this years game logs, which is what’s relevant. I don’t care what Beal and Porter did for a few weeks of last year when Wall first had his knee surgery bc them carrying the team last year was a flash in the pan for a few weeks at the end of Jan & behining of Feb. Wall has missed 2 games this year that Otto played in: 1. ATL: 20 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts. So great, one great game against one of the worst teams in the NBA - and yes I realize we inexplicably just lost to them - In fact his best game of the year and most of last year. 2. IND: Wall missed this game. My guess is this is the game Porter got hurt because his stats were awful: 0 pts, 2 rebs & 1 ast. So, not exactly a large enough sample size here, but I know this much, the Wizards team is better when Wall plays. Also, I could really care less if Otto can’t find a way to score points/co-exist with Wall and actually knock down some open 3s this year. It is a personal problem Porter has and why in hindsight I’ve changed my opinion of him as far as deserving the Max. We should’ve let Porter leave and re-signed Bogdonavic for 2 years, $21 million. Are you working against yourself? First, you dismiss a large sample size for two games. One in which the Wiz win by 14 and Otto goes for 20/11/5. Two games ago, the Wiz play the same team. But Porter is out and Wall is in. We lose by 8. And Wall shoots 6 of 18... 6 assists... 3 turnovers... 0 rebounds. Then you pick out the game Otto played 7 minutes in before getting hurt. The Wizards are 1-5 without Otto. What are you doing??? Most everyone is shooting worse this year than last year. That's primarily due to the slow pace Wall has created. So many of our 3s are contested. Digest this:Otto PorterJohn Wall These are on/off court net offensive ratings stats for this year. I'll break it out down for you: John Wall On/Off the Court Net Offensive Ratings: Wiz -0.7 Opponents +3.7 Net -4.5 Otto Porter On/Off the Court Net Offensive Ratings: Wiz +4.6 Opponents -3.5 Net +8.1 Now I'm not a mathematician. But I believe that is a difference of 12.6 between the two. Now go ahead and ATTEMPT to explain that away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, MKnight82 said: ESPN threw out a random trade idea for Wall, I actually thought it was a pretty good trade for both sides: San Antonio Receives PG John Wall Wizards Receive PG Dejounte Murray SG Lonnie Walker IV C Pau Gasol So the Wizards get a new starting PG in Murray, who's more of a past first guy that can defer to Beal and Porter. Lonnie Walker is a rookie on the first year of a cheap 4 year deal, @Jeezy Fanatic would probably like to see him on the Wizards. Gasol is thrown in to make the salaries work, but could bolster the Wizards bench this year. Gasol's contract for 19-20 is only partially guaranteed for $6.7 mil more. San Antonio does it because Wall gets to pair with two other vets in DeRozan and Aldridge, and they hope the Spurs culture can get the most out of Wall. I think the Wizards would be crazy not to do this deal. I'd do that in just about 0.5 seconds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, MKnight82 said: ESPN threw out a random trade idea for Wall, I actually thought it was a pretty good trade for both sides: San Antonio Receives PG John Wall Wizards Receive PG Dejounte Murray SG Lonnie Walker IV C Pau Gasol So the Wizards get a new starting PG in Murray, who's more of a past first guy that can defer to Beal and Porter. Lonnie Walker is a rookie on the first year of a cheap 4 year deal, @Jeezy Fanatic would probably like to see him on the Wizards. Gasol is thrown in to make the salaries work, but could bolster the Wizards bench this year. Gasol's contract for 19-20 is only partially guaranteed for $6.7 mil more. San Antonio does it because Wall gets to pair with two other vets in DeRozan and Aldridge, and they hope the Spurs culture can get the most out of Wall. I think the Wizards would be crazy not to do this deal. Can San Antonio afford it? I mean I’m not totally throwing that deal out but I’d probably try to get a protected 1st round pick out of it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said: Are you working against yourself? First, you dismiss a large sample size for two games. One in which the Wiz win by 14 and Otto goes for 20/11/5. Two games ago, the Wiz play the same team. But Porter is out and Wall is in. We lose by 8. And Wall shoots 6 of 18... 6 assists... 3 turnovers... 0 rebounds. Then you pick out the game Otto played 7 minutes in before getting hurt. The Wizards are 1-5 without Otto. What are you doing??? Most everyone is shooting worse this year than last year. That's primarily due to the slow pace Wall has created. So many of our 3s are contested. Digest this:Otto PorterJohn Wall These are on/off court net offensive ratings stats for this year. I'll break it out down for you: John Wall On/Off the Court Net Offensive Ratings: Wiz -0.7 Opponents +3.7 Net -4.5 Otto Porter On/Off the Court Net Offensive Ratings: Wiz +4.6 Opponents -3.5 Net +8.1 Now I'm not a mathematician. But I believe that is a difference of 12.6 between the two. Now go ahead and ATTEMPT to explain that away. Why the eff is Porter having the worst season of his last 3 seasons? You can blame that on other players if you want, I’d put it right on the player who put up worse avgs than Oubre this year and isn’t as athletic and struggles to create his own shot. Advanced analytics are cute, but if a guy struggles off the bounce and to create his own shot, he’s a limited offensive player and that’s no ones fault but his own. Wall can’t be responsible to spoon feed every player on their team but Beal wide open shots every possession. That’s ridiculous. You blame Wall for everything that’s wrong with the wizards and it just doesn’t pass the smell test even when you use your cute analytics. I would have to see who’s on the court when Porter has those net positive ratings to get a true evaluation bc most of the time when Wall is on the bench, so are the other teams starters. So, other than 2 games this year that Wall missed, when Porter was on the court w/o Wall, he was in there going against back up forwards and I damn sure hope he’d have a net positive rating against a back up forward as an NBA MAX PLAYER! Edited December 21, 2018 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 48 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Can San Antonio afford it? I mean I’m not totally throwing that deal out but I’d probably try to get a protected 1st round pick out of it to. Afford it how? Cap wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MKnight82 said: Afford it how? Cap wise? Yeah, I think they can bc they only have 2 max players - Aldridge & DeRozan - but just wondering. Edited December 21, 2018 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 39 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Yeah, I think they can bc they only have 2 max players - Aldridge & DeRozan - but just wondering. Yes they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 When you dismiss analytics in favor of your sight test, you lose. Crazy baseball teams these days using them gosh darn analytics with them gosh darn shifts and lefty/righty splits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/12/21/18150936/washington-wizards-john-wall-light-tunnel?utm_campaign=bulletsforever&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true "Perhaps most disappointingly, Wall hasn’t done anything to counteract the losing - and really, he’s been a part of the problem. The team is practically last in defensive rating, yet the Wizards somehow give up more points when he’s on the court. If the game isn’t against a marquee opponent, Wall has been caught snoozing virtually every time up the court and has become a meme as a result. The shot selection, too, has been concerning. Against the Atlanta Hawks, arguably the worst team in the NBA, Wall took an eye-opening 11 threes. Prior to that game, Wall had scored 40 points against the Lakers — a team reportedly looking at Wall as a possible trade acquisition." Be sure to read the rest of the article. It doesn't have too many advanced stats.. Edited December 22, 2018 by Skinsin2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) Troy Brown doing work. If we hadn’t traded for Ariza and instead a reserve big from Phoenix, Brown would be getting a lot of run with the Wizards right now as Sato’s back up... uhh 🙄 https://goo.gl/6mrnmo Oubre hits a 3 as the Suns win their 4th straight in Boston since trading for him. Needless to say, Ernie traded the wrong SF. Otto should’ve been traded, but bc he’s been hurt a lot the last two years and he’s only scoring 12 ppg and making $26 million this year, no one wants him. I maintain my opinion that I was wrong about re-signing Otto. They should’ve let him walk 2 years ago, re-signed BoBuckets to a 2 or 3 year deal making $10-12 mil a year and then this off-season they could’ve re-signed Oubre. Edited December 22, 2018 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) Otto isn't worth a max. But no one is getting usage with Beal and Wall, two inferior shooters. Oubre was awful. Really low basketball IQ and didn't pass, most likely because he's a in a contract year. Dude has the worst +/- of any Wizard. Great athleticism. He needs a mentor terribly. Love TBJ and can't wait for him to get more run. They've been playing fringe players over him recently which doesn't make any sense. My favorite lineup: Green Ariza Porter Sato Beal High energy... smarts... and will defend. Edited December 22, 2018 by Skinsin2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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