Old Devils Thread (Lock 'er up please)

[Forge]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Didn't a GM come out and say he expects an active market AFTER the draft?

That seems to be the prevailing thought...but I just think that is weird. You'd really think people would want to do this beforehand. I don't get wanting to wait until after the draft. Do people really feel comfortable with next eyar's draft in a covid environment? Hell, the KHL is just pushing Covid back and forth lol

[beekay414]

Just now, Forge said:

That seems to be the prevailing thought...but I just think that is weird. You'd really think people would want to do this beforehand. I don't get wanting to wait until after the draft. Do people really feel comfortable with next eyar's draft in a covid environment? Hell, the KHL is just pushing Covid back and forth lol

I think more teams would rather move 2021 picks than 2020 picks and that's where we're stuck. At this point, these teams have spent ages on the 2020 draft and they probably feel strongly about what they're getting. The uncertainty around the 2021 draft might make those picks far more expendable.

[Canadian Saint]

41 minutes ago, Forge said:

That seems to be the prevailing thought...but I just think that is weird. You'd really think people would want to do this beforehand. I don't get wanting to wait until after the draft. Do people really feel comfortable with next eyar's draft in a covid environment? Hell, the KHL is just pushing Covid back and forth lol

Honestly GMs are getting more and more inactive now days. With how important ELCs and cap space is, less GMs want to take a risk.

Also, looks like Boston is favorites for OEL. I wonder what they give up.

[Forge]

Just now, Canadian Saint said:

Honestly GMs are getting more and more inactive now days. With how important ELCs and cap space is, less GMs want to take a risk.

Also, looks like Boston is favorites for OEL. I wonder what they give up.

NHL GMs are spineless. They really are. 

Has it flipped back to Boston? Last I heard it was Vancouver. I would imagine that it's Debrusk who would be the main piece, right? I don't think that they are giving up Carlo, and frankly,they don't have the prospect pool to give up someone like Studnicka (plus, their top two centers are mid 30's). No first round pick this year either. So Debrusk, Vaak, plus something else? 

[Canadian Saint]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

NHL GMs are spineless. They really are. 

Has it flipped back to Boston? Last I heard it was Vancouver. I would imagine that it's Debrusk who would be the main piece, right? I don't think that they are giving up Carlo, and frankly,they don't have the prospect pool to give up someone like Studnicka (plus, their top two centers are mid 30's). No first round pick this year either. So Debrusk, Vaak, plus something else? 

We will see. Coyotes are in a world of hurt. They have a roster full of guys (young and old) that are overpaid, a coach who sucks, and no 1st rounders the next 2 drafts (plus 2nd and 3rd this year and I think 2nd next year). On top of that they are broke and need help paying rent and signing bonus. OEL was asked to expand his list and declined, meaning it's only Boston or Vancouver, and those two have all the leverage. I think Boston has a chance if they give up picks. Coyotes don't want prospects or players, but rather picks. DeBrusk being an RFA might not be as attractive to them.

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, Canadian Saint said:

We will see. Coyotes are in a world of hurt. They have a roster full of guys (young and old) that are overpaid, a coach who sucks, and no 1st rounders the next 2 drafts (plus 2nd and 3rd this year and I think 2nd next year). On top of that they are broke and need help paying rent and signing bonus. OEL was asked to expand his list and declined, meaning it's only Boston or Vancouver, and those two have all the leverage. I think Boston has a chance if they give up picks. Coyotes don't want prospects or players, but rather picks. DeBrusk being an RFA might not be as attractive to them.

The Devils need to be calling about Chychrun. We have some ELC LHD's and picks we can send them lol

[Canadian Saint]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

The Devils need to be calling about Chychrun. We have some ELC LHD's and picks we can send them lol

I think their quote was "anyone over 25 is available for the right price". Chychrun maybe one of the few pieces they hold onto. I think Goligoski would be nice for you guys as a 1 year stop gap.

[Forge]

Just now, Canadian Saint said:

I think their quote was "anyone over 25 is available for the right price". Chychrun maybe one of the few pieces they hold onto. I think Goligoski would be nice for you guys as a 1 year stop gap

Do you think that when the Dam breaks with some of these rumored trades that we will see an influx, or do you think the trade season is overstated even in a flat cap world? 

[Canadian Saint]

21 minutes ago, Forge said:

Do you think that when the Dam breaks with some of these rumored trades that we will see an influx, or do you think the trade season is overstated even in a flat cap world? 

No we will see trades. Normally I'd say these rumors are rubbish, but due to Covid, flat cap and internal caps, teams need to change. I honestly do think we will see a shock trade or two, but I think that only happens if X player is available with the 1st/2nd/3rd round picks and after. There will be player movement, but it happens either draft night or after. With a shortened offseason too, teams will want players to settle and get into an offseason groove.

[beekay414]

Imagine wanting to trade the farm for Laine but then saying you're not a fan of drafting Perreault lol. The issues with Perreault are the same issues that Laine currently has. The only difference? Perreault has the ability with the puck on his stick to be a line driver.

The guys over on HF make no sense whatsoever.

[beekay414]

So I really like the guy that runs the Draft Dynasty account on Youtube. That's where I get a lot of my info. I like how he looks at more than one type of prospect and is fluid with mixing in high upside with high floor and top line with checking line types in his rankings. You can find his breakdowns on Youtube but this was his final top 31. I would recommend watching the video breakdowns. He explains a lot. It's a 3 part video series where he ranks 31-21, 20-11 and 10-1. Here's his page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClmllMC5YHLqhek-9K4vGiA

1. Alexis Lafreniere | LW | Rimouski (QMJHL)
2. Tim Stutzle | C/LW | Mannheim (DEL)
3. Marco Rossi | C | Ottawa (OHL)
4. Seth Jarvis | RW | Portland (WHL)
5. Jake Sanderson | LHD | USNTDP (USHL)
6. Quinton Byfield | C | Sudbury (OHL)
7. Cole Perfetti | C/LW | Saginaw (OHL)
8. Jamie Drysdale | RHD | Erie (OHL)
9. Alexander Holtz | RW | Djurgardens (SHL)
10. Jack Quinn | RW | Ottawa (OHL)
11. Lukas Reichel | LW | Berlin (DEL)
12. Lucas Raymond | RW | Frolunda (SHL)
13. Kaiden Guhle | LHD | Prince Albert (WHL)
14. Noel Gunler | RW | Lulea (SHL)
15. Jacob Perreault | C/RW | Sarnia (OHL)
16. Anton Lundell | C | HIFK (Liiga)
17. Tristen Robins | C/RW | Saskatoon (WHL)
18. Dawson Mercer | RW | Chicoutimi (QMJHL)
19. Ridly Greig | C/LW | Brandon (WHL)
20. Hendrix Lapierre | C | Chicoutimi (QMJHL)
21. Braden Schneider | RHD | Brandon (WHL)
22. Connor Zary | C | Kamloops (WHL)
23. Dmitri Rashevsky | RW | MHK Dynamo (MHL)
24. Ozzy Wiesblatt | RW | Prince Albert (WHL)
25. Jan Mysak | C/LW | Hamilton (OHL)
26. Dylan Holloway | C/W | Wisconsin (Big-10)
27. Helge Grans | RHD | Malmo (SWE J20)
28. Mavrik Bourque | C/RW | Shawinigan (QMJHL)
29. Emil Heineman | LW | Leksands (SHL)
30. Luke Evangelista | RW | London (OHL)
31. William Wallinder | LHD | MoDo (SWE J20)

EDIT - FWIW, obviously the list isn't perfect but I do know he isn't super comfortable with Russians. Said it in the Rashevsky breakdown so it's not really a surprise he doesn't have Amirov on his list. He's also like STI where he's not good with goalies so that explains Askarov.

Edited October 5, 2020 by beekay414

[beekay414]

With that, I'm moving on to Scouching's ranking video next. I'm getting my final kicks in before D-Day lol

[beekay414]

38 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

With that, I'm moving on to Scouching's ranking video next. I'm getting my final kicks in before D-Day lol

Yeah, this dude puts far too much stock in his metrics. I get using them as a base but he almost uses them as a be-all, end-all and that's not really wise when trying to compare across so many leagues and styles. I feel like he watches just to track the data and not identify the skills. As a result, his rankings are all over the place and he has to accommodate that by ranking in tiers. I get it but there's a lot I didn't agree with. 

[Forge]

1. Alexis Lafreniere
2. Quinton Byfield
3. Tim Stutzle
Truthfully, I'm not going to say a whole lot here. I think that these are the main three for a lot of people. I will say that it's really not much of a question regarding 2/3 for me here. Stutzle is closer to 4 than he is to 2. I think it's slightly unlikely that he's a center at the next level, and Byfield's potential is just crazy high. 

4. Lucas Raymond
I've made my love for this little firecracker well known. I'm obviously higher on him than a lot in here, and I think that may be because I am slightly higher on his game without the puck, as I think he's an electric fireball who will forecheck people with a degree of annoyance that we don't see too often. He's also one of the very few players in this draft whom I believe can drive a line from the wing, which is sort of rare. He's a puck possession monster in the end, and I love that. There's not a skill that he truly lacks or grades out worse than acceptable for me. He does it all. He needs to shoot more, and he needs to get stronger...a lot stronger, admittedly. He also tries to make  "special" plays a little more than he should rather than take what is given to him. 

5. Marco Rossi
Yes, the size is worrisome. I think any time you have to point at the one guy who has made it work at the next level (Brayden Point) to show that it can be done, there is some concern. That being said, I love the way his body is at least structured because he's got a very this and powerful base, and that is so important. Its like watching Russel Wilson in the NFL. Yeah, he's short, but he's structured so thick and strong in the base and core that he doesn't have any issues. He's a talented playmaker and was obviously well above the majority of his peers in the OHL last year. It's a bit of an offensive league, but Rossi has been doing this for years now and I love how much of a hard worker he is and his attitude. I think he can stick at center. 

6. Jake Sanderson**
Ugh, okay, fine. I'm going to drink the kool aid. He's the first real riser I've had since I posted previous rankings, and there are a couple of reasons. One, I'm writing these up with an additional bent toward what I would prefer to see the Devils do. I love Alexander Holtz, and in truth, I can understand the idea that he's a superior prospect, but as I said earlier, I do believe that what he brings to the table is more realistically replicable by guys that we can get at 18/20, so that dings him just a bit for my preference here. Secondarily, I think that the concern a lot of people have is his offense, and I think that he's going to one of the better schools (provided he gets to play) to really allow for him to cut loose. I think UND is going to let him play offensively, and when he does, I think the offense is going to show off. I think he's going to have one of the more impressive +1 seasons (and if he's there, a particularly impressive D+2 and in a year, people are going to think that he should have been ranked higher. Like the euro pros, he played slightly above his peer level going against college kids in the first half of the season. Putting him with his own peers in things such as the five nations really showed what he could do. Given his skating, I think he's a guy that plays all situations and could easily hit 23-24 minutes per night at his apex. 

7. Jamie Drysdale
Great skater, obviously, and offensively he's fantastic, though I Don't know that he'll ever be a defensive shut down type, and that's why I moved him just below Sanderson. I think in the end, at their absolute best, Sanderson's peak could be just slightly better than Drysdale's because he could pot 50 points, be a shut down defender, and play all facets of the game. I don't know if that is quite Drysdsale. 

8. Alexander Holtz
Could put him above the defensemen, and I wouldn't complain, and truthfully, if I were a fan of another team, that may actually be the case. But as I said in one of these threads, I think it's easier to replicate his skillset at 18 and 20 with guys like Perreault or Foerster. His production simply can't be denied, and he's not just his shot. 

9. Seth Jarvis
As most know, a favorite of mine for a while. Like Raymond, I think that he's a guy that can drive a line from the wing. Some may be scared off by the fact that so much of his production came on the back half, but I don't think that really changed anything up. I think he continued to create high danger chances and simply got bad results to start and better results to finish. I think he skates well, and he's just a guy that mixes **** up and creates havoc and scoring chances. 

10. Cole Perfetti
I'm not going to lie, I'm not a huge fan. The skating terrifies me, and I don't think it's overblown. He's small and he can't skate. I really worry about him carrying the puck when defenders don't have to respect the skating and can basically blanket him. That being said...skating can get better, and he's one of the smartest kids in the class and I feel like he justs sees the ice as though everything were happening just a tick slower than it is which gives him a leg up.  He can shoot, he can be a playmaker, he can be an offensive dynamo. But if that skating is as bad as I fear it is, he can also be a bust. While I'm not his biggest supporter, this is really the lowest I can put him because I do believe that he is 100% in that second tier group (if you consider 4-10 one tier)

11. Yaroslav Askarov
So look, I'm not going to pretend that I'm some great evaluator of goalies. He's a world class goalie prospect, we all know that. My ranking is based on solely at what point of the draft will I look at the forwards / D-men available and give Askarov a look ? This is it. So he's nubmer 11. The russian factor worries me somewhat, especially since he plays for SKA and they have money and I think will have a really good shot at getting at least one extension (even if it's a single year) after his current contract is up (which I think is 2 more years). I'm banking on not seeing him for 4 years if selected. 

12. Anton Lundell
He's socks at christmas. You don't always love them, but they are beneficial to have and sometimes you need them. He's one of the few guys in this first round I Have no doubt is a center at the NHL level. I actually don't love the shot as much as others as I think he needs to do a better job of lifting the puck more consistently, and his skating is just okay, but I think he's going to be a solid middle 6 center pretty easily. 

13. Rodion Amirov
I won't lie...this is really speculative because black and white production wise, he hasn't been as impressive as some (well, the start of the season has been pretty good for his D+1 year, I'll admit). But watching him on the ice...he's always moving, always processing and I think he has a really high hockey IQ. He almost always seems to know what's going on and what the best course of action is. Honestly, I don't know why the production hasn't always been there, but it's possible that he's just that third guy on a top 6 line who doesn't put up the points, but is more critical to it's success than you know. He's so good in transitions, passes well. I'm banking on that production fully breaking through at some point though; he's too skilled and has too much upstairs for it not to. I love his game, though I admit there's a possibility that he's the type that feasts on secondary assists. 

14. Jacob Perreault
This guy has been talked about a lot, and I'm not going to add anything more. Sky high talent, doesn't always have the greatest compete level. If he wants it he's going to be fantastic. This is a boom / bust selection and not for the faint of heart at this point. 

15. Jack Quinn
I mentioned it in another post, but I have some concerns about what he is at the next level. Do I think he's a pure sniper or putting up 35-40 goals? No, I don't. People give Holtz crap for his outside shows, but over half of Quinn's shot attempts came from low danger areas as well, and he should a completely unsustainable 21%. Not to compare them as players, but if you told me that at the next level he was going to be Blake Coleman, I could kind of see it. 22-25 fiesty goals, 35-40 points while giving a good two way presence. I don't think he's a top line winger. I don't know that he's a traditional top 6 winger. As a prospect, thinking of how he's going to progress at the NHL level, I think he's closer to Lukas Reichel and Dawson Mercer (who I gave real consideration to moving here with Quinn moving down) than he is Alexander Holtz, though ultimately I put those guys below Quinn because I think he's more likely to impact the power play. 

16. Hendrix Lapierre
So, here's the thing. I don't have access to medial records or doctors, interviews with people or anything like that. This makes a ranking on Lapierre tricky. His injuries are well known. So is his talent. I understand that he will be on a few Do Not Draft lists (maybe our own), and he could easily fall out of the first round altogether. I also know that he could be a top 5 player in this draft and potentially the best playmaker out of the bunch. It seems like a good place for him given those two outcomes (I also tend to be slightly more forgiving on injury riddled draft campaigns ). High IQ, meh shot, questionable away from the puck

17. Marat Khusnutdinov
The russian factor is a little concerning again, and maybe I'm overbuying this kid and what he does considering the league. But given how much I like someone like Raymond, I don't think that it's all that surprising that I am possibly much higher on Khusnutdinov than the consensus. But the dude is everywhere lol. He's chaos. He is small, and the skill is still a work in progress, particularly finishing.  This needs work and may never come, but he's also one of the youngest in this draft class. He's a further project than most of the guys in the first round, that's for sure, but he's got some magical hands and he really just looks like he's out there loving hockey. 

18. Dawson Mercer
I'm not quite as high on him as some, but I Think the difference in overall feeling is negligible. I Don't think that his skills are elite. I don't see a great shot, I Don't think he's a great passer. Checks a lot of eh, okay boxes. 

19. Dylan Holloway
I love the size and skating, as I think the two aren't easily found together, and he'd be a great partner for Jack on the wing. He's not explosive in his skating, but once he gets going, its very smooth and his hands allow him a high degree of mobility on the ice.   Some guys like Jarvis I think are good fits for Nico...Holloway is 100% a Jack linemate. 

Wisconsin was not good this year for some reason. Not sure what happened there, and it's not typical for draft eligibles to be playing in the NCAA. He knows how to play physical, and depsite playing older competitors, he didn't back down. His skill / production will have to come more with time, I think. My biggest concern is that I don't think his hockey sense and IQ is super duper high? He's not going to be super creative or anything like that. He'd be a puck retrieval expert on Jack's line, I think, and he's got really good hands and enough skill to play a very a - b - c game and finish feeds from Jack. I feel like he's could be a monster by his junior season. 

20. Ryan O'Rourke
Surprise?....I guess? So yeah. The new ROR. I guess I should explain this given that I previously had been high on Schneider and Guhle and now don't even really have them in my first round (schneider at 31 is almost by default, tbh) , yet ROR is suddenly a top 20 player. So yeah...honestly, it's all about one thing. Passing and the mental game. Schneider and Guhle both have a significant lack in the offensive game, but are defensive stalwarts. Schneider's mental game can lapse defensively at time, and Guhle I honestly just think is a bad passer and is going to be a chip off the glass zone exit guy. That's not what I want. ROR is a quality defender, even if not as shut down as those guys may project to be, but he also has a very nice first pass / outlet pass in my opinion, which gives me hope for something greater. He's one of the younger players in this draft (Schneider one of the oldest). I think he's got some alpha dog to him offensively if he can find it consistently. He's not afraid to attack the net when it presents itself. I just think that there is a much better shot that he's going to be a quality, all around balance d-man in the NHL. I think he needs more time. 

21. Brendan Brisson
He's not going to be a center at the next level until he decides he wants to play defense. He would have been a good fit for Nas' system last year lol. His lack of desire to play defense is kind of putting it nicely. But he's got a really nice shot, good size, and was really productive. Completely destroyed the world juniors last year. I don't think that he has great skating or speed, and that worries me just a bit, but his offensive game outside of that is top notch. 

22. Mavrik Bourque
I'm kind of meh on him? I just don't like the shot. I don't know, maybe STI can convince me otherwise, but I swear it seems like every time this kid takes a shot, he kind of whiffs on it. They are ugly. The real strength of his game is that he's constantly pushing high danger opportunities because he's really smart and controls the puck and he navigates traffic like nobody's business. Not much of a defender though, so like Brisson, if he's going to stick at center, that's probably going to have to change. 

23. Connor Zary 
If I had to vote on a guy who is most likely to be overdrafted, this is the dude. I gave him the nod over Reichel because I do think that Zary has it in him to stick at center in this class, which is kind of a rarity in this first round, but I'm not high on him at all. I think he's a bottom six penalty killing center. There isn't an elite tool in the kit to me. 

24. Tyson Foerster
I think his feet are a little clunky, but he 100% has one of the best shots in this class. If you were to grade everything in the shot? Accuracy, power, release, etc? I could certainly make the case he has the best or second best. He's that good. I think he could project to someone like Palms. I'm probably higher on him than most. 

25. Ozzy Wiesblatt
He's far more productive than people realize and he attacks with a fierceness that as most probably know by now, is one of my favorite traits. I don't know that he's a center...I think he has a better chance to stick than some others, and but i don't think the odds are as good as someone like Zary. He's got a good baseline of skills and more importantly, he knows how to use them. He knows when and where to attack to get the most out of his offensive game. The rest of it needs to round into shape, and obviously the size thing can absolutely matter and may prevent him from maximizing his potential, but he's a guy that I'd be okay with if we took at 20. I think he's a point producer at the NHL level. 

26. Helge Grans
Once again, a speculative inclusion on the list. I watch him, and there's some things that really turn me off. One, right now, he's just looks lanky and two, his skating seems awkward as hell. He seems to be lumbering. I really like that he's cognizant of his surroundings and that he's not a chip and go defender...he wants to keep the puck. At the same time, he seems like a guy that greatly benefits from the bigger ice surface, and I'd love to see him on a smaller rink to get a better idea on where his skill set is atin the passing game because sometimes, he's still a grab bag of "what the hell did you just do?" 

There's a ton to like about him in a projection sense, but the play is not anywhere close to to that at this point. Still, I'll gamble on him and hope for the best. I worry that his skating in a booth will never let him get there though. 

27. Noel Gunler
I don't like it. I don't know what to do with Gunler. He's really starting to scream "guy who never makes it to the NHL". But the gifts are so tantalizing, even if the compete level kind of sucks. I really wonder if he would benefit away from Sweden. I'm not taking him off my board yet in the top 31, despite the inauspicious start to the season. 

28. Lukas Reichel
I am a little concerned that he was playing above his head at the start of the season, and its a feeling that I can't quite shake...especially given how hard it is for a 17 year old to be playing in a men's league (Reichel is a younger draft eligible with a May birthday). He's got a lot of the common flaws for youngsters in older leagues...he's lean, not strong enough, consistency waxes and wanes and he's sometimes a passenger. But I love the skating, and the skill set it good, but not great. I wonder how high the upside is. Is he the third guy on a second line? I Feel like that may be the best case scenario and given that he's not yet good around the boards (because of course not at 17 in a men's league), I don't know how likely that is. He's got a good offensive IQ, knows where to get offensively to put himself in good spots to score, but he doesn't have a great shot or anything like that. Watching him offensively, there's nothing that stands out to me. 

29. Ridly Greig 
30. Daniil Gushchin
You can kind of tell where we are at in this draft as I think my #29  & #30 guys share a similar kind of game. Greig is a 200 foot player who will hurt somebody despite not being a super big dude. He's the type of guy every team needs in the nitty gritty. I don't think that he has high level offensive skill set, but I don't think it's bad. He has some growing and developing to do which and I think he can get better offensively, especially given that I think he has pretty good offensive instincts as it is. . I think he has more room to grow than Gushchin, which is why he's one spot higher.

Yes, Gushchin is super tiny. Yes, he plays like a bee on a sugar high. Are we surprised that I like him? For those who like your aggressively angry forecheckers, this is the guy for you. But he's just kind of fun to watch, I won't lie lol. 

31. Braden Schneider
He's probably the guy that lost the most for me with as long as this has taken. At one point, I thought he was currently the best defender in this class...the type who, given his age, could maybe come in right away as a third pairing stay at home phone booth defender and not embarrass himself. I don't think that is the case any more. Forget the offensive game, which will likely never really be a factor, but sometimes, like Mukhamadullin, you're lefting trying to figure out just what the hell he's doing. I like that he's a righty, but the defensive game in certain situations needs work where he's not spacing out. I really gave considerable though to sticking him in the second round with most of my d-men, but behind the likes of Daemon Hunt, just on the basis of overall upside. 
 

@beekay414

[Forge]

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Yeah, this dude puts far too much stock in his metrics. I get using them as a base but he almost uses them as a be-all, end-all and that's not really wise when trying to compare across so many leagues and styles. I feel like he watches just to track the data and not identify the skills. As a result, his rankings are all over the place and he has to accommodate that by ranking in tiers. I get it but there's a lot I didn't agree with. 

I like how he presents things, but his data is a little too micro for me. There are some contexts where it's useful, and some where he has fallen too far in to his own wormhole.