y2lamanaki Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Depends on the draft class though. Not going to always have a 2004 lineup. If someone is taken in the second round does that mean the franchise really isn't looking? Oakland wasn't looking for a franchise QB when they took Carr in round 2? You are completely missing the point. 2004 is irrelevant entirely. Starters this year are also from the first rounds of 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, and possibly 2017 classes, so you don't need a stacked QB class. You just need to draft one. Starting-caliber QBs come out yearly. And yet some teams still struggle to find ones as good as Cousins. Hence, better examples to prove @Forge's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Did anyone else know that Chris Culliver signed with the Colts last week? I totally missed that. I'm a little surprised - I thought he was going to be done in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Shocked to hear Cully finally was picked up. Don't even really remember why he wasn't with anyone recently. He was a pretty good corner for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: Shocked to hear Cully finally was picked up. Don't even really remember why he wasn't with anyone recently. He was a pretty good corner for us. Two ACL surgeries after he left us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just now, J-ALL-DAY said: Two ACL surgeries after he left us. Good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 59 minutes ago, Forge said: I have to assume that they are taking more than on the field things into consideration. Youth / potential that type of thing. Some are also crazy - Sporting News had Eli at #9. If taking into account age and growth potential then I could see Cousins dropping a few spots but not much. I mean I know he's 29 or whatever but QBs are playing until they are 40 now a days with all the rules in place to protect them. And as far as growth potential we are talking about a guy who in 2015 was a top 10 performer at his position and then improved last year. The whole time dealing with zero ground game threat that defenses had to be wary of and starting receiving weapons in and out of the line up like Jackson and Reed. I mean we talk about younger QBs and their "growth potential" meanwhile Cousins is out there actually doing it and still gets dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Wow, Haden got a much better deal than I would have thought he was going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madridista Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Just because you have talent around doesn't mean you're going to play like a top 5 QB though. Which Cousins was last season (3rd in DYAR, 5th in DVOA). He certainly isn't a middling QB. That's Bryan Hoyer. Really, I'm not sure what you want Cousins to do? Will he only be validated if he plays with scrubs all year? Kind of like saying Steve Young was a fraud because his career success was in part to playing with guys like Rice, Taylor, Jones, Wallace, Barton, Oates, and Sappolu his entire career. Cousins lost Desean Jackson and Garçon this year. So if he still has a similar output in production then I don't see how you can't be convinced that he can be a "franchise QB". If Kyle Shanahan is involved I'm not too concerned. Brian Hoyer is a back-up QB, not a middling QB. And no, but he will be validated if he doesn't need to be bailed out by the talent he does have. I've watched every game he's ever played being from the DC area, he's just not consistently accurate enough. I wish people would stop living and dying by box scores; I don't care about his "output in production." Cousins didn't play well at all vs Pittsburgh last year, for example, but due to their constant 3-man rushes, his box score stats looked great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madridista Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Forge said: It really depends on how you define "middling". Most would put Cousins around the middle of that pack tier with regards to quarterback play. I don't deny that ranking, though I think he's in the upper portion of that 12-18 crowd (I think sports illustrated ranked him at like 18 or something, and sporting news ranked him 19) based on what he actually does on the field. Some people consider the potential of quarterbacks, and I get that when doing some rankings, but if we are talking purely on the field, it's hard to say definitively that Winston is better than Cousins, though I would take Winston over Cousins if given the choice because of the upside. What people fail to acknowledge is just how hard it is to get a quarterback as good as Cousins, even if his on the field play is best defined as "average". I mean, that's really hard to get. Go back over the last 6 or 7 drafts and see how many quarterbacks drafted are as good as Cousins has been. It's not pretty. Waiting for a quarterback better than Cousins could quite seriously take decades. Just look at Kansas City, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. I would rank him around 20. And yeah, it is hard to find QB's, but that's not enough for me to justify giving an average one $30 mil/year (regardless of how much cap space we have at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Forge said: THis is disgusting. Following the Browns trade of Cam Erving to the Chiefs today: Money ball in action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Forge said: So Brooks signed with GB. I'm a little shocked that we couldn't trade him based on the contract that they gave him - 1 year, 3.5 base that can possibly get as high as 5 million with incentives. That's more than a team would have had to pay if they had traded for him (his salary was de-escalated into the 4's). There was clearly interest around the league, so I'm a little surprised we couldn't at least get a swap of picks. Brooks was one of the guys I hoped we could get something from. A contender, like GB, could use a guy like him even if only for a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, ninerfanwheelz said: Brian Hoyer is a back-up QB, not a middling QB. And no, but he will be validated if he doesn't need to be bailed out by the talent he does have. I've watched every game he's ever played being from the DC area, he's just not consistently accurate enough. I wish people would stop living and dying by box scores; I don't care about his "output in production." Cousins didn't play well at all vs Pittsburgh last year, for example, but due to their constant 3-man rushes, his box score stats looked great. His yards per game in each of the past three years has been consistently each year at right around 240, which puts him just short of 4000 yards if he could stay healthy and play an entire season. His completion percentage over the past three years has been 55, 61 67 - in that order. His NFL quarterback rating over the past three years has been 77, 91, 98 - in that order. His TD to Int ratio has gone from 12-13, to 19-7 to 6-0 over the past three years. His sack percentage is consistently very low. All of that has been while playing for three really bad teams. I think those numbers are pretty decent and the trend is really promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, ninerfanwheelz said: I would rank him around 20. And yeah, it is hard to find QB's, but that's not enough for me to justify giving an average one $30 mil/year (regardless of how much cap space we have at the moment) I would love to hear the 19 QBs you have ahead of him. Last years game against Pitsburgh that you're referring to where he played so terribly was a game in which Cousins was asked to BE the Redskins offense. He struggled in the red zone and while he owns some of that the Redskins attempted 11 rushes the whole game for something like 40 yards. Where as Cousins was asked to throw the ball 43 times. While being the entire offense he still completed 70% of those throws. Tell me what defenses were thinking anything about the running game. Now he did throw two ints. The first being a bad decision trying to force one into Reed 30 yards down field in the 3rd quarter. But again, after the Steelers defense had figured out the Redskins had abandoned the run they began dropping 8 into coverage, those 3 man rushes you were talking about. On that int the Steelers MLB Ryan Shazier had dropped 30 yards into coverage where 7 other defenders were in coverage. Not sure I blame him for trying to force a pass to his best weapon. The second int can late in the game when the Steelers were up over 20 points with a couple minutes left in the game. As far as his accuracy goes he is a career 65% completion guy who averaged 69% two years ago and 65% last year while having two games below 60% and five games of 70% or better. The other nine games were obviously somewhere in the middle I'll take that inconsistently from a QB asked to carry his offense for two consecutive years now. People talk about his weapons as well like he's the only good QB whoever had a playmaker or two to throw the ball too. That argument is a joke. Take a second and look at the weapons guys like Manning and Brady have played with throughout their careers. Not sure if you are referring to me as a box score watcher, because I'm not, I watch the games and understand how football is played/schemed for. Using stats and numbers does not mean one only grabs opinions from them, but can use these as facts to back their reasoning. I am and have been a big fan of Cousins and for whatever reason gets a terrible rap for whatever reason. I'm not saying this man is Tom Brady or anything, but damn people are sure quick to dismiss a guy who year after year proves people wrong and continues to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madridista Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Not necessarily in order: Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Mariota, Newton, Luck, Rivers, Big Ben, Carr, Winston, Prescott, Palmer, Manning, Bradford, Stafford, Taylor Not particularly interested in continuing a discussion with QB narratives involved since that is easily my least favorite part of the NFL. I would be equally disgusted giving a few of those QBs the same money as we'll give Cousins next offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, ninerfanwheelz said: Not necessarily in order: Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Mariota, Newton, Luck, Rivers, Big Ben, Carr, Winston, Prescott, Palmer, Manning, Bradford, Stafford, Taylor Not particularly interested in continuing a discussion with QB narratives involved since that is easily my least favorite part of the NFL. I would be equally disgusted giving a few of those QBs the same money as we'll give Cousins next offseason We'll just have to agree to disagree on atleast half of those names then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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