Thomas5737 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Dogbite said: Do you even understand the definition of sporadic or are you just arguing because you cannot handle the thought of the Browns having wasted yet another high pick on a QB? You are correct there have been times when he has hit the receivers in the hands and been let down with drops, however, he has had more than his fair share of passes that have been completely off the mark. It has been his MO since high school. He can have perfect placement on one play and then the very next be way off the mark. He is the very definition of sporadic. I haven't been here very long but it didn't take me long to find out the one guy who is not even worth talking football with. Nah, he's cool. He may be a little too emotionally involved in this conversation for whatever reason but he is a quality poster, we all get fired up from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 17 hours ago, Dogbite said: Do you even understand the definition of sporadic or are you just arguing because you cannot handle the thought of the Browns having wasted yet another high pick on a QB? You are correct there have been times when he has hit the receivers in the hands and been let down with drops, however, he has had more than his fair share of passes that have been completely off the mark. It has been his MO since high school. He can have perfect placement on one play and then the very next be way off the mark. He is the very definition of sporadic. I haven't been here very long but it didn't take me long to find out the one guy who is not even worth talking football with. Thanks for your patronage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 17 hours ago, Dogbite said: I haven't been here very long but it didn't take me long to find out the one guy who is not even worth talking football with. MSU is a pretty solid poster @Dogbite, even though I don't agree with his take on Kizer. Guess what, we're not all going to agree on everything and that's fine. We're all a little fired up right now...this team is 0-5, it's been a pretty terrible 3 year stretch with a 15 year gap between playoff birth(s), 23 years since our last playoff win, they look as bad as they've ever been, and the Tribe just choked away a series AGAIN (6 straight playoff clinching losses). We're all a little fired up right now. Goodness knows that yesterday I was in the mood to pick a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: MSU is a pretty solid poster @Dogbite, even though I don't agree with his take on Kizer. Guess what, we're not all going to agree on everything and that's fine. We're all a little fired up right now...this team is 0-5, it's been a pretty terrible 3 year stretch with a 15 year gap between playoff birth(s), 23 years since our last playoff win, they look as bad as they've ever been, and the Tribe just choked away a series AGAIN (6 straight playoff clinching losses). We're all a little fired up right now. Goodness knows that yesterday I was in the mood to pick a fight. One thing as Browns fans we absolutely have to do is stick together, all we got is us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I think Kizer will be fine. Being able to sit will help him out I just say look at where Jared Goff is now that he's got a season under his belt and playmakers on the outside Mock 1A. Saquon Barkley RB Penn State 1B. Auden Tate WR Florida State 2A. Orlando Brown OT Oklahoma 2B. James Washington WR Oklahoma State 2C. S Armani Watts Texas AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: I think Kizer will be fine. Least surprising thing I've read today. 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: Being able to sit will help him out Not being a jerk, I'm legitimately asking: When was the last time that a rookie QB has panned out who has started the year, looked terrible, and then gone on to have that team still invest in them, albeit successfully? I think the Browns use a very high pick on a QB this year, and if they don't, shame on them to be honest. They have ZERO reason to believe in him going forward. He's a giant question mark at best. 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: I just say look at where Jared Goff is now that he's got a season under his belt and playmakers on the outside He had a much better first 5-7 games as a rookie last year, even though it wasn't stellar. Higher completion %, better TD/INT ratio, and fewer turnovers in more games. 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: Mock 1A. Saquon Barkley RB Penn State 1B. Auden Tate WR Florida State 2A. Orlando Brown OT Oklahoma 2B. James Washington WR Oklahoma State 2C. S Armani Watts Texas AM Nice on paper, except for the glaring omission of a Franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Least surprising thing I've read today. Not being a jerk, I'm legitimately asking: When was the last time that a rookie QB has panned out who has started the year, looked terrible, and then gone on to have that team still invest in them, albeit successfully? I think the Browns use a very high pick on a QB this year, and if they don't, shame on them to be honest. They have ZERO reason to believe in him going forward. He's a giant question mark at best. He had a much better first 5-7 games as a rookie last year, even though it wasn't stellar. Higher completion %, better TD/INT ratio, and fewer turnovers in more games. lmao Zero reason to believe Your crazy he doesn't get us down to the red zone if he can't play I bet we don't spend a high pick on a QB and we'll be fine Goff also still had a much better team around him than Kizer does right now and also was able to SIT AND WATCH which has to be taken into account Goff hadn't even touched the field by this time last year Kizer has started all 5 games to this point on a worse team. Even though he was picked number one he was playing on a team that went 7-9 the year before Kizer came on to a team that was legit 1-15 Alex Smith was STRAIGHT UP TRASH his first 3 years look it up bro Now dudes leading in the MVP race if you don't think it takes time and good playmakers around him your insane bro argue that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: lmao Zero reason to believe Yeah, that 49.5 QB Rating, with 851 yards in 5 games, completing 50.9% of his passes, his 5 Red Zone turnovers, his 3 TD and 9 INT with a 1-3 QB/INT Ratio and his 3 fumbles truly make me a believer. 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Your crazy 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: he doesn't get us down to the red zone if he can't play Sure he does. 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: I bet we don't spend a high pick on a QB and we'll be fine 1. I bet you're wrong 2. Fine. Yeah, we've been "FINE" all season, and last year too...shoot, we've been fine the last 50 games (as indicated by our 4-46 record). 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Goff also still had a much better team around him than Kizer does right now Debatable to say the least. Kizer's line is WAY better, his WR situation was comparable, and his RB situation is worse than Goff's. 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: and also was able to SIT AND WATCH which has to be taken into account Goff hadn't even touched the field by this time last year Kizer has started all 5 games to this point on a worse team. So? 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Even though he was picked number one he was playing on a team that went 7-9 the year before See: Their defense 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Kizer came on to a team that was legit 1-15 That's ok, according to you we're FINE. 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Alex Smith was STRAIGHT UP TRASH his first 3 years look it up bro Bro, I don't need to look it up, I remember just fine. His rookie year was an embarrassment. 27 minutes ago, brownie man said: Now dudes leading in the MVP race if you don't think it takes time and good playmakers around him your insane bro argue that I love it when people use the example of an outlier to point to a guy that they've blindly supported on why he'll be the next Alex Smith/MVP candidate. I get it dude, you're pot committed at this point. You've run your mouth for the better part of a year, belittled those who disagree/disagreed with you, and now that your dude has been benched because he SUCKS, you're lashing out. Up until now, I haven't really cared and have even laughed at your song and dance. However, since you blindly refuse to discuss this intellectually and still support your guy, with nothing more than a gut feeling and blind arrogance, I'm going to call you out for it. I hope Kizer proves me wrong. Too bad he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Not being a jerk, I'm legitimately asking: When was the last time that a rookie QB has panned out who has started the year, looked terrible, and then gone on to have that team still invest in them, albeit successfully? I think I just proved a situation then you call it a outlier SSING STATS SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT 2004 NYG 9 95 197 48.2 1,043 5.29 6 52 9 2 -- 55.4 I would say Eli Manning was pretty comparable too he won two superbowls ASSING STATS SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT 1983 DEN 11 123 259 47.5 1,663 6.42 7 49 14 0 -- 54.9 John Elways was pretty trash too very comparable he won two superbowls Your just tripping to give up on a rookie and these guys were number 1 picks all have something in common They played on TRASH TEAMS LIKE OURS and in Eli and Elways situations those were teams that traded up to get him they didn't even earn the number 1 pick We did we just didn't pick Kizer 1 of course but hes still playing on a terrible team Your just wrong bro and Kizer will prove you wrong no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, brownie man said: I think I just proved a situation then you call it a outlier Nice try. That was my original question, which you answered, and I admitted Smith was trash. Nice try to spin things though, well done. You should sell used cars. Just now, brownie man said: SSING STATS SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT 2004 NYG 9 95 197 48.2 1,043 5.29 6 52 9 2 -- 55.4 I would say Eli Manning was pretty comparable too he won two superbowls Ah, Eli Manning...the most average QB of all time who has won 2 Super Bowls due to having an unbelievable defensive line and helmet catches. Just now, brownie man said: John Elways was pretty trash too very comparable he won two superbowls An example from the NFL 34 years ago. AWESOME. The rules weren't at all different back then either. Just now, brownie man said: Your just tripping to give up on a rookie and these guys were number 1 picks all have something in common Yeah, usually guys who start off like Kizer have AMAZING careers. Plus, it's really hard for a rookie QB too look competent and show promise, *Just look at Carson Wentz...oh wait... *How about Dak...oops! ...Russell Wilson...DANG IT ...Andrew Luck...DOH! ...Jameis Winston...AHHH! ...CARR??? LOL ...Mariota????? The rookie excuse doesn't hold water with me, especially considering your best example was a guy who was a rookie QB 34 years ago. Just now, brownie man said: and in Eli and Elways situations those were teams that traded up to get him they didn't even earn the number 1 pick This has ZERO to do with anything resembling a point why Kizer sucks. If anything, this only adds to my point yesterday that original draft position matters. Kizer is a 2nd rounder. https://www.betlabssports.com/blog/teams-best-chance-finding-pro-bowl-quarterback-first-round/ Quote It seems like every year a team finds a diamond in the rough, a quarterback taken after the first round that turns into a Pro Bowler. The Cowboys got Dak Prescott in the 4th last year, the Raiders selected Derek Carr in the 2nd Round of the 2014 draft and the Seahawks nabbed Russell Wilson in the 3rd Round in 2012. The truth, those are the exceptions to the rule. If a team wants to draft a Pro Bowler they better find them in the first round. There have been 276 quarterbacks taken in the NFL Draft since 1994, when the draft was shortened to seven rounds. Here is the proof that teams are better off taking a quarterback in the first round if they want to find a Pro Bowler. First Round QBs drafted: 57 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 22 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 13 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 5 Second Round QBs drafted: 25 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 5 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 2 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 1 Third Round QBs drafted: 28 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 4 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 1 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 0 Fourth Round QBs drafted: 36 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 3 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 0 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 0 Fifth Round QBs drafted: 32 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 0 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 0 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 0 Sixth Round QBs drafted: 49 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 5 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 2 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 1 Seventh Round QBs drafted: 49 QBs with at least one Pro Bowl: 2 QBs with at least three Pro Bowls: 0 QBS with five or more Pro Bowls: 0 Of the quarterbacks taken in the first round, 38.6% earned at least one Pro Bowl nod. Not great but far better than any other round. Percentage of Quarterbacks to go to Pro Bowl (by round) 1 – 38.6% 2 – 20.0% 3 – 14.3% 4 – 8.3% 5 – 0.0% 6 – 10.2% 7 – 4.1% It isn’t easy to find a franchise quarterback but if a team is going to get their quarterback of the future they will most likely draft them in the first round. Rounds drafted usually is a huge factor. Besides, Kizer as a 2nd rounder makes him extremely expendable. Just now, brownie man said: We did we just didn't pick Kizer 1 Thank goodness. It's bad enough we completely wasted a 2nd rounder on him, but to have lost out on Myles too? That's Ray Farmeresque if you ask me. Just now, brownie man said: of course but hes still playing on a terrible team Boo hoo. So have a lot of guys. If you're legitimately good, usually you show it. I'd be fine losing games, but this team is LITERALLY BETTER WITH AN UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT THAN THEY ARE WITH A SECOND ROUNDER WITH SUPERIOR RAW SKILLS. Just now, brownie man said: Your just wrong bro and Kizer will prove you wrong no doubt That last sentence really sold me. There truly is "no doubt" that I'm wrong...aside from the fact that Kizer HAS BEEN BENCHED and will be incapable of proving me wrong until he figures out a way to crack the lineup on the worst team in the NFL with the worst QB situation in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If 31 other teams and every analysis out there feels that there could be the next Luck, Rodgers or Manning and we have the #1 overall pick, you draft the QB. Done. Over. I don't care if Kizer could be a good starter in this league. If you have the chance to add a franchise altering QB, you add him, pat yourself on the back, and draft him WRs. We'll still have a mid range 1st to add a WR and then 3 2nds to add even more talent. We can fix this team in 2018. that is all Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hogan was picked in the 5th round...is 3 years older and has a year of seasoning in the offense.. Luck, Wilson, Mariota, Carr were all older than where Kizer is as of now so you’d have to wait to compare 2018 or 2019 Kizer to even be in a situation where a ready to play position even applies. Luck was 22 Wilson 23 Wentz 23, Carr 23, Mariota 22 Kizer only 21 still got a year or two to even compare to them and I never said he was as good a prospect as Jameis was coming out he’s not no one even know who Wentz was when he was 21 he wouldn’t have been a top two round pick that’s a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, brownie man said: Your just wrong bro and Kizer will prove you wrong no doubt Don't you think that's a bit strong? It's impossible to know either way at this point. But calling people crazy and wrong is a bit much. There's a lot more doubt about Kizer than you'd like to admit. Based on everything he's shown so far, college and pros, I'd be more surprised than not if the Browns passed on a QB at 1 or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: Hogan was picked in the 5th round...is 3 years older and has a year of seasoning in the offense.. LOL 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: Luck, Wilson, Mariota, Carr were all older than where Kizer is as of now So? This is the NFL. Rookie to Rookie comparisons are valid. I suppose we should have judged Brandon Weeden as a rookie against Aaron Rodgers since they're the exact same age (actually Rodgers is a few months younger). 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: so you’d have to wait to compare 2018 or 2019 Kizer to even be in a situation where a ready to play position even applies. Nope, rookie to rookie comparison. 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: Luck was 22 Wilson 23 Wentz 23, Carr 23, Mariota 22 One of the many reasons why I believe in the Bill Parcells school of thought. We just named a bunch of guys who were 3 year starters and have their college degrees, with the exception being Wentz, a 2 year starter. 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: Kizer only 21 still got a year or two to even compare to them LOL. Yes, let's let him start the next 2 years before we determine how awful he is. No one will probably get fired either. Not that it matters. We're "FINE" after all, according to you. 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: and I never said he was as good a prospect as Jameis was coming out he’s not My point was that if you're drafted ahead of another guy, you're a better prospect. Kizer was the 4th QB drafted last year, and I like all 3 a lot more than him. I was a huge Watson fan coming out. That hasn't changed. 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: no one even know who Wentz was when he was 21 Considering he didn't start in college until he was 22 year old RS Junior, that would be accurate. He was smart enough to stay in school instead of coming out for a draft where he would have likely failed, just like Kizer, who it couldn't be more apparent should have stayed at Notre Dame. 12 minutes ago, brownie man said: he wouldn’t have been a top two round pick that’s a fact Kizer's stock PLUMMETED the more he played. Wentz's ROSE the more he played. THAT'S A FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 The Clemson DTs are very underwhelming so far tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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