College Football / NFL Draft Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

Don't do it. He's just a guy. Checks a lot of boxes with that "C" grade. There's some upside there, but as a prospect, there's pretty much nothing that gets you super excited. Doesn't read the entire field, doesn't go through a ton of progressions, just okay arm strength, doesn't face a ton of pressure. He's propped up by a system that made Brandon Weeden a first round pick.

Surely you aren't criticizing this fella...

 

[candyman93]

The corner for Iowa who robbed JTs soul is a monster.

 

Joshua Jackson iirc.

[Dawgpoun8017]

4 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

The corner for Iowa who robbed JTs soul is a monster.

 

Joshua Jackson iirc.

[roger murdock]

Does anyone else feel this is an extremely weak draft. We are talking Barkley #1 overall. Hes not worth it, but I struggle to find anyone who's more worth it. Just feels super meh overall.

[Mind Character]

2018 Draft Class Mid-season Quick Hitters, Big Board & Mock

At this point, I've watched about 92 prospects from the talent pool with the majority of stuff to watch during the holidays....

1. Bad news is that over the last 8 years that I've really studied prospects, I don't think I can recall a year where I've been as disappointed in the lack of impact talent as I have this year.

·         Terrible depth of talent in this draft on par with 2016 in that there is a massive talent/impact starter ability drop off after the first 7-9 players. Whereas last year's class was so deep that you could get impact players well into the 20s and at the top of the 2nd round.

·         The 34th player on my board at this time last year has the exact same grade (roughly a few points off) as the 18th player on my board in this year's draft. That's a HUGE difference and is truly on par with the '16 draft class. Last year was a great year of talent depth.

2. Good news is the teams with the most draft capital are best situated to move up in the draft to secure the impact talent. This is not a draft where we can sit back and let the draft come to us. I would treat all later round picks as expendable chips to aggressively move up to target the right players.

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Positions of depth

1. The TE class this year is even better and deeper than last year where

2. Corner class looks deep but not as talented as last years.

3. RB is deep deep like last year.

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Top Lies You'll Hear Told About this Class

1. "This offensive tackle class is deep"

·         The OTs being talked about has top 10 players as well as those talked about as going in the 2nd round are mostly garbage. The more tape I watch, the less player I like.

2. "It's a big year for Edge Rusher Depth"

·         Hell no! It's a decent year if a team is in the 34 defense. Garbage year if one runs the 43. If you don't get one in the top 20, the rest are meh.

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Overrated or Misunderstood Players

1. Dante Pettis: Smooth route runner, lacks burst and quickness, also lacks go get it ability. Drops the ball a ton. Was really disappointed after watching 5 games. Is really just a guy...the hype train on him is laughable.

2. Arden Key: Tremendous athlete, terrible motor, can only play as a 34OLB, his hands die on contact, and he gets frustrated easily from physical play, undisciplined in run support. I wouldn't touch him until the 2nd round.

3. Derwin James: He's a linebacker all day, 24/7...Great competitor, apex leader, knee doesn't look all the way recovered, has major issues in stop and start change of direction movements, slow mental identifier and processing of the pass…really bad eyes, but when he does see it he cuts it loose to devastating results for the offensive players. Will be a star in as a OLB taking away TEs and providing run support on the outside.

4. Jaire Alexander, CB, Louisville: Injured all year, but last year’s tape showed a 3^rd or 4^th round guy with INT production. Slow and poor hip explosion and fluidity. Gets beat off the line easily, bad tackler, doesn’t give effort and quits in run support to often. Great Zone Corner. Would thrive as a slot but is not a number 1 on the boundary.

5. Iman Marshall, CB, USC: Doesn’t always compete, technique is really bad, gets overpowered at the line easily, really bad eye discipline. 3^rd rounder at best.

6. Trey Adams, OT Washington: Strong competitive fire, but has terrible balance, is stiff, and cannot anchor against power to save his life. Major Waist bender. The people calling him a top 5 tackle are out of their mind or just watched 2 or 3 games. I was once fooled by the limited sample size. More games watched exposed his fatal flaws.

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The Big Board

(**Excluded DTs/NTs/LBs/Guards due to our teams' depth**)

Blue-chip, Franchise Changer, Can’t Miss

1. Saquon Barkley RB, Penn State

The Good: Supreme Speed, power, agility, elusiveness…he has it all. Open field vision is exceptional and has the ability to be an 80 reception back threat in the passing game. Elite worker and grinder who is all in on everything football and training.

The Bad: While his open field vision is exceptional, his vision and patience to the hole lacks maturity and needs development. Receives so many handoffs from shotgun and immediately accelerates to top speed whereas an NFL single back and I-form look requires a different kind of vision, footwork, pacing/speed control, and setting up blocks with knowledge/instincts/anticipation. In the snaps that I've seen out of wing/pistol, Saquon either overruns or overaccelerates or doesn't see the block flow clearly. This is a small hurdle that can be overcome with coaching but it will take some work. I'd bet anything he can transition effectively a la Ezekial Elliot.

2. Sam Darnold, QB USC

The Good: Amazing anticipation thrower, sees the field clearly and with uncanny calm and poise. Quickness in the pocket and great blitz avoidance movement. Supreme Speed, power, agility, elusiveness…he has it all. Open field vision is exceptional and has the ability to be an 80 reception back threat in the passing game. Elite worker and grinder who is all in on everything football and training. The big moment does not faze him or his willingness to let it rip with high difficulty throws in order secure the win. Pocket composure and how compact his delivery is under duress is elite just below the level of Goff coming out (not Goff the deer in headlights his rookie year).

The Bad: Does not have the requisite blitz awareness and knowledge yet to adjust plays and get the offense out of bad situations with efficiency. Odd throwing motion, but his motion is explosive. Feet get antsy and speed up his progressions leaving him off balance with poor mechanics that undermine his ability to be accurate. Forces the ball into double coverage or in tight windows that lead to INTs when he tries to guide his throws. Tries to guide his throws instead of letting it rip way too often for his arm talent especially on hash throws and deep outs allowing the Safety to cue the throw, get over the top, and secure the INT due to the ball's lack of pace. Gets fooled in Cover 3 looks with Safety blitz and LB zone replace schemes due to the chaos in his field of vision. His feet get sped up so bad in these situations his mind seizes up and it's all bad.

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Blue-chip, Immediate Starter, Instant Pro-Bowler

3. DeShon Elliot FS Texas

***Will Copy/Paste The Rest of The Good Vs The Bad Details from Our CFB Scouting League when I have time***

4. Bradley Chubb DE NC State

5. Hayden Hurst TE South Carolina

6. James Washington WR Oklahoma St.

7. Minkah Fitzpatrick FS/CB Alabama

8. Josh Allen QB Wyoming

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Blue-chip, Pro-Bowl Upside

9. Courtland Sutton WR SMU

10. Taven Bryan RDE Florida

11. Armani Watts FS/SS Texas A&M

12. Calvin Ridley WR Alabama

13. Clayton Thurson QB Northwestern

14. Josh Rosen QB UCLA

15. Tarvarus McFadden, CB, Florida State

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Immediate Starter, Impact Player

16. Mark Andrews TE Oklahoma

17. Jordan Whitehead FS Pittsburgh 

18. Lamar Jackson QB Louisville

19. Connor Williams OT Texas

20. Ian Thomas TE Indiana

21. Duke Dawson CB Florida

22. Michael Gallup WR Colorado St.

23. PJ Locke CB Texas

24. Carlton Davis CB Auburn

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Developmental Starter, Impact Player Upside

25. Harold Landry DE Boston College

26. Mike Mcglinchey OT Notre Dame

27. Jamarcus King CB South Carolina

28. Josey Jewell LB Iowa

29. Arden Key DE LSU

30. Ronald Jones II RB USC Duke Dawson CB Florida

31. Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M

32. Baker Mayfield QB Oklahoma

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Developmental Starter, Limited Skill Set, Longterm Upside

33. Bryce Love RB/SlotWR Stanford

34. Orlando Brown OT Oklahoma

35. Ike Boettger OT Iowa

36. Billy Price C Ohio State

37. Isaiah Oliver CB Colorado

38. Simmie Cobbs Jr., WR, Indiana

39. Derrius Guice, RB, LSU

40. Jaylen Dunlap CB illinois

41. Troy Fumagalli TE Wisconsin

42. Dallas Goedert TE South Dakota State

43. Dominick Sanders FS Georgia

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Off-season:

****I don't like Kirk Cousins' game, but QBs are scarce and Kizer or whoever we may draft needs time to develop.

Sign QB Kirk Cousins or QB AJ Mccaron

Sign WR Terrelle Pryor

 

Draft Pick Order:

-Browns 1(1)

-Texans/Browns 1(5); 2(37)

-Eagles/Browns 2(60)

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The Draft & the Amazing Trade that Drives Browns Fans into Dark WaitingForNextYear Hysteria:

 **Trade** The Chargers (with the 3rd worst record in the league) want Sam Darnold and pull out all the stops to jump ahead of the Giants who have the 2nd overall pick (Yes, Darnold comes out; and we pass on him LOL....let's just get it out of the way in this mock)   

 

In the Goff trade, the Rams gave up a first-round pick (2016), two second-round picks (2016), a third-round pick (2016), a first-round pick (2017) and another third-round pick (2017).

 In a similar massive trade, we get a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd (2018), a 1st and 2nd (2019), and a 2nd (2020). We send a 5th and 6th in 2018 and future 4th in 2019 to them in the trade.

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The Picks(Post Trade): 1(3)Chargers, 1(5)Texans, 2(33)Browns, 2(35)Chargers, 2(37)Texans, 2(60)Eagles, 3(65)Browns, 3(67)Chargers, 4(96)Browns, 4(112)Panthers

The Mock

1(3) Saquon Barkley RB Penn State

1(5) Bradley Chubb DE NC State

**Trade 2(33) for 1(20) to get back into the 1st; Give up a '18 3rd(65) & '19 3rd+ '19 4th**

1(20) Deshon Elliot FS Texas

**Trade 2(35) for 1(26) to get back into the 1st again; Like the Njoku Trade give up a '18 4th(96) but also a '18 5th and a '19 3rd

1(24) Hayden Hurst TE South Carolina

2(37) Calvin Ridley WR Alabama

2(60)  Michael Gallup WR Colorado State

3(67) Ronald Jones II RB USC

4(112) PJ Locke CB Texas

**Trade 5(133) for 4(120) give up future draft pick(s)

4(120) Duke Dawson CB Florida

6. Ike Boettger OT Iowa

7. Meh

 

[pnies20]

Don't understand the DE pick.

[AkronsWitness]

49 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

Don't understand the DE pick.

I dont understand trading out of the #1 pick when we clearly need the best QB in the draft to select a DE and FS in the 1st round when their is not a huge need for either position and we are so inept on offense. I also dont think there is any way the Browns bring Pryor back.

I like the insight to strengths and weakness of the players listed the most @Mind Character but I dont understand the mock draft part.

[Mind Character]

42 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

Don't understand the DE pick.

What type of pass rush do we have when Myles Garrett isn't in the game??

My answer is a nonexistent one.

Ogbah has proven to be a really good run defender and stopper, but is never going to be a serious pass rush threat.

A defense truly becomes a threat when it can throw 2 elite sack artists out there against opposing QBs.

Bradley Chubb is special...plays with special power, strength, effort, and has the full range of advanced pass rush moves.

An elite pass rusher that can play the run as well as Bradley does is too valuable to pass up...the secondary also benefits from dynamic play from that position.

He to me would be one of 2 BPA...when the BPA is a pass rusher and you only really have one...you take that player every time.

We have enough picks to address other positions of need like WR, FS, etc...

Oh and by the way...it's a midseason mock...lol

Just to get the mock juices flowing.

Implicit in the mock decisions is the thought that we sign Mccaron or Cousins and see enough out of Deshone the second half of the season to let  him develop.

 

[Mind Character]

12 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I dont understand trading out of the #1 pick when we clearly need the best QB in the draft to select a DE and FS in the 1st round when their is not a huge need for either position. The Browns also in no way shape or form will bring Pryor back.

I like the insight to strengths and weakness of the players listed the most @Mind Character but I dont understand the mock draft part.

To FS not being that much of a need, I'd say it's a huge need and would allow a pre-existing player on the roster to flourish in their more natural role: Strong Safety and that player is Jabrill Peppers.

DeShon Elliot is as talented and dynamic in pass defense as they come and can also thump in run supports. He and Jabrill could change the whole complexion of our secondary.

To the DE pick, I'd just say when Myles Garret isn't in the game there is no real pass rushing threat. In fact zero at all. Ogbah is not a natural pass rusher...he cannot string together the techniques to really be effective or to be "the guy."

He's young and a great run defender.

We need another impactful force coming off the edge. Pairing Myles with an elite pass rusher and Jabrill with an elite range pass defender creates a synergy and dynamic on our defense that can power us to winning via giving us the best chance to win the turnover battle.

Implicit in these selections is that we sign Kirk Cousins, or Mccaron...they start and we see Deshone develop some over the course of the last 8 games to feel as though he can sit and develop.

It's a mock pulled form the mind of Sashi Brown and co. that utilizes the trade down to potentially maximize value which has been our way of doing things recently

[AkronsWitness]

@Mind CharacterI get what your saying I just cant justify personally taking good players that we dont have a tremendous need for. 

Yea we need a true FS, but Kindred has been pretty good and Im happy with his growth a lot and Peppers just needs a full season to commit and learn a position. I like both of them moving forward as starters.

As far as the DE goes, I also understand it, but Ogbah has shown flashes (strip sack last week) and usually players take till year 3 to really show you who they are. Im not gonna bail on him after year two when he was always viewed as a raw project type who could turn into a beast. We have Garrett as the #1 rusher--dont need to spend 2 huge top 10 assets on 2 DEs when there is so many blatant holes on offense unless the prospect is a cant miss type of generational player. Chubb I dont think is.

I would much rather play Ogbah + Garrett at DE and then draft a raw speed rushing LB in the 2nd round to bring in on obvious passing situations off the edge. There has to be some smaller school guy out there who is a extremely productive speed rusher at the collegiate level but will not make it into the 1st round because of various reasons.

To me, the first 2 picks needs to be to inject bluechip playmakers into the offense. For instance last year when we went heavy with defensive upside with the front 7---I want that but for the offense this year. This year our Garrett pick needs to come in the form of Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield, the Peppers pick needs to come in the form of Calvin Ridley and the Ogunjobi pick needs to come in the form of LJ Scott

[Iamcanadian]

12 hours ago, Mind Character said:

To FS not being that much of a need, I'd say it's a huge need and would allow a pre-existing player on the roster to flourish in their more natural role: Strong Safety and that player is Jabrill Peppers.

DeShon Elliot is as talented and dynamic in pass defense as they come and can also thump in run supports. He and Jabrill could change the whole complexion of our secondary.

To the DE pick, I'd just say when Myles Garret isn't in the game there is no real pass rushing threat. In fact zero at all. Ogbah is not a natural pass rusher...he cannot string together the techniques to really be effective or to be "the guy."

He's young and a great run defender.

We need another impactful force coming off the edge. Pairing Myles with an elite pass rusher and Jabrill with an elite range pass defender creates a synergy and dynamic on our defense that can power us to winning via giving us the best chance to win the turnover battle.

Implicit in these selections is that we sign Kirk Cousins, or Mccaron...they start and we see Deshone develop some over the course of the last 8 games to feel as though he can sit and develop.

It's a mock pulled form the mind of Sashi Brown and co. that utilizes the trade down to potentially maximize value which has been our way of doing things recently

I do not think our owner will ever allow our FO to pass on a QB as our #1 overall pick, no matter what their past record indicates. He forced one FO to draft Manziel and he will force our new FO to draft a QB as high as possible, or he could be looking at unsold seats in huge #'s with millions of dollars in lost revenue and he will not stand for that.

Here is a new top 100 posted on the GBN, a very reputable draft site:

http://gbnreport.com/gbn-top-100/

No doubt, this list will under go massive changes when Mayock posts his top prospects, NFL.com lists always have a major impact of how GBN, Kiper or any well know draft site ranks their prospects. These sites simply do not have the contacts within the draft community or with NFL GM's that NFL.com has and therefore must adjust their rankings accordingly.

[Dogbite]

Ya'll over hear complaining about DE and FS picks and I'm sitting here like WTF mate? Why on God's green earth are we trading away picks to move up for a TE when David Njoku has clearly shown he can be a legit threat in NFL. Its not his fault the QBs on his team are garbage.

[Iamcanadian]

3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

@Mind CharacterI get what your saying I just cant justify personally taking good players that we dont have a tremendous need for. 

Yea we need a true FS, but Kindred has been pretty good and Im happy with his growth a lot and Peppers just needs a full season to commit and learn a position. I like both of them moving forward as starters.

As far as the DE goes, I also understand it, but Ogbah has shown flashes (strip sack last week) and usually players take till year 3 to really show you who they are. Im not gonna bail on him after year two when he was always viewed as a raw project type who could turn into a beast. We have Garrett as the #1 rusher--dont need to spend 2 huge top 10 assets on 2 DEs when there is so many blatant holes on offense unless the prospect is a cant miss type of generational player. Chubb I dont think is.

I would much rather play Ogbah + Garrett at DE and then draft a raw speed rushing LB in the 2nd round to bring in on obvious passing situations off the edge. There has to be some smaller school guy out there who is a extremely productive speed rusher at the collegiate level but will not make it into the 1st round because of various reasons.

To me, the first 2 picks needs to be to inject bluechip playmakers into the offense. For instance last year when we went heavy with defensive upside with the front 7---I want that but for the offense this year. This year our Garrett pick needs to come in the form of Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield, the Peppers pick needs to come in the form of Calvin Ridley and the Ogunjobi pick needs to come in the form of LJ Scott

I agree, QB will come first followed by either a RB or a WR, whoever is ranked higher when we use our 2nd pick and the position not chosen will come 3rd. I would even back up the WR position and the RB position with further picks. We need to go all in on offense in this year's draft and it is by far, the strongest part of this year's draft, so we should come out OK if the FO can just actually judge talent. That is always the question mark???

[AkronsWitness]

5 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I agree, QB will come first followed by either a RB or a WR, whoever is ranked higher when we use our 2nd pick and the position not chosen will come 3rd. I would even back up the WR position and the RB position with further picks. We need to go all in on offense in this year's draft and it is by far, the strongest part of this year's draft, so we should come out OK if the FO can just actually judge talent. That is always the question mark???

Exactly, Since we also have 3 2nd rounders and a 3rd---I think we should sprinkle in 1 CB and 1 FS or OT with those picks.

If you have a offense after the draft hypothetically of:

QB- Josh Rosen

RB- LJ Scott/Duke Johnson/Matt Dayes

WR- Corey Coleman/Calvin Ridley/Josh Gordon**/Rashard Higgins/Ricardo Louis

TE- David Njoku/Seth Devalve

With the highest paid offensive line in the NFL with added depth in the draft.

Imagine Josh Rosen under center with Ridely, Coleman and Gordon split out wide, Njoku standing and Duke Johnson in the backfield out of the shotgun. 

[Dogbite]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:38 AM, MSURacerDT55 said:

There needs to be more Josh Adams talk around here

I agree with this. Him and Quenton Nelson are the driving force behind the Notre Dame turn around and somehow Mike McGlinchey is getting all the hype. Nelson is the real deal and Adams is a tank.