Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said: Entirely unobjective opinion on the way: However, I do not like Q. Wms at all. Sure, he is talented--very talented. However, that sack of Kyler Murray Saturday concerns me. That was brutally rough and would have been flagged in the NFL (and should have been flagged). Sure glad Samia wasn't flagged for 'protecting' Murray after the fact. Combined with our 9ers not needing interior DL at all, I want nothing to do with Williams. I actually felt bad for Williams in that game. He was so clearly completely exhausted and spent trying to bring down Murray every play. It was like watching a 300 pound guy trying to catch a rabbit lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Forge said: I actually felt bad for Williams in that game. He was so clearly completely exhausted and spent trying to bring down Murray every play. It was like watching a 300 pound guy trying to catch a rabbit lol. I have often wondered what might have happened if Murray had not had such a terrible 1st half...I knew the D wasn't very good, so that did not surprise. But I had never seen Kyler look so lost or hesitant as he did in that 1st half. 28 point deficit and yet only lost by 11 to a team as good as 'Bama....wow. Also, Tua REALLY impressed me Saturday night. If he wins another Championship, does he declare?! Curious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 35 minutes ago, N4L said: Nick is an absolute techniction and I honestly don't know what there is to improve on. Can someone tell me what his weaknesses are? He doesn't really have any major red flags / weaknesses. He has things he can improve, obviously, but nothing that is a major concern. He's not the most explosive or bendy athlete ever, but neither was Joey. His biggest weakness may be awareness / recognition? He's so aggressive at times that he can get washed out by a good scheme block, may over pursue and he may break off his containment, bite hard on play actions and the like. Other than that, there's really not a ton not to like. He's never played a season as grueling as the NFL schedule, so he may hit a rookie wall hard. His first two years, he was in a big time rotation (that's why his bulk stats aren't uber impressive), and then this year, when he would have been on the field more than ever, he got hurt and decided not to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: Well, our Shanny coaching Allen in the Sr. Bowl? If they end up drafting him after this, I would absolutely trust it and instantly like the pick. I like this opportunity. Entirely unobjective opinion on the way: However, I do not like Q. Wms at all. Sure, he is talented--very talented. However, that sack of Kyler Murray Saturday concerns me. That was brutally rough and would have been flagged in the NFL (and should have been flagged). Sure glad Samia wasn't flagged for 'protecting' Murray after the fact. Combined with our 9ers not needing interior DL at all, I want nothing to do with Williams. So the sack makes you not want to draft him??? It's college...you can get away with that kind of play. I've seen college QBs getting abused all year on vicious hits/sacks, this is nothing new in college. I'm sure he would understand that kind of physicality he couldn't get away with at the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFrush Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 11 hours ago, rudyZ said: Is it at all possible that with both being available, we'd take Allen over Bosa? Nothing against Allen but I hope not. Unlike Bosa I just don't think Allen will hold up that well against the run at defensive end. I actually think Allen would be better off at 3-4 OLB or at SAM in our scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift21 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, 757-NINER said: So the sack makes you not want to draft him??? It's college...you can get away with that kind of play. I've seen college QBs getting abused all year on vicious hits/sacks, this is nothing new in college. I'm sure he would understand that kind of physicality he couldn't get away with at the next level. Yeah that's nitpicking if that's your reasoning to pass on him. For me it's either Bosa or Williams at 2 if you don't trade down. I'm not taking Allen with the 2nd pick. He had a great season but I just don't think the gap between Allen and guys like Polite/Burns is that wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, SFrush said: Nothing against Allen but I hope not. Unlike Bosa I just don't think Allen will hold up that well against the run at defensive end. I actually think Allen would be better off at 3-4 OLB or at SAM in our scheme. Yeah that's been one of my concerns with Allen....defending the run. He gets engulfed way too often when teams run straight at him. He's great at chasing down plays from the backside but he doesn't seem to stack and shed when he's playside. Doesn't seem strong enough to hold containment. I really want to see him at the Senior Bowl. He doesn't look like he plays at the 258 lbs he's listed. Seems like he's around 240 but could just be his body type. I too, thought about him as more of a SAM before the season started but he played more along the edge and started getting sacks so he kind of morphed into this edge guy. His versatility is absolutely intriguing though. The possibility of a guy who could switch from SAM to Leo on any given play is EXCATLY what this defense needs. That type of flexibility would be a incredible. He's a very good in coverage also. My one thing is I'm not sure if he is a difference maker as pass-rusher, at the next level. He doesn't convert speed-to-power well at all. He really just runs the arc as a pass-rusher, with no real moves or counters when his speed rush is negated. We need our own version of a Khalil Mack type of player if you're going pass-rusher. I see more Ahmad Brooks...good pass-rusher that will make the splash plays every now and again. Probably gets you 8-10 sacks every year but not a pernninal All-Pro who gets you around 12-16 sacks regularly and makes offenses have to account for him every play. Like I said, I really want to see him in the Senior Bowl and get a better view of his entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Honestly, who cares about the run defense? lol get the guy who rushes the passer the best We have plenty of guys who can stop the run, our run defense is serviceable, and will only get better with another top quality ILB. Our interior DL is a strength and we have guys that can clog up running lanes. What we dont have, is an elite pass rusher. Its a passing league. we need to bring the heat. We need one more guy to draw attention away from Buckner so he can dominate 1v1s on the inside. Someone who can bend and make the QB step right into our 6'8 Hawaiian Giant. We want a QB to feel the heat from every direction. Bosa is absolutely the better run defender at this particular moment. He is also the more refined pass rusher, but that doesnt mean he will automatically be the better professional. Hes been on the fast tract to the NFL for a few years now, his brother has given him access to pro-style strength and conditioning. Allen is just now filling out his frame and could potentially add weight. Nick Bosa seems to have maxed out his frame already. Comparing Allen to Khalil Mack and Ahmad Brooks is unfair. Those are two of the biggest freak athletes we've seen. both guys are incredibly strong and unbelievably quick considering their strength. Thats not Allen. Hes got length and quickness and is working on adding strength. Its just a different style. I am not drafting a DE with a top 2 pick to get 8-10 sacks. I want a 15+ sack artist. I would be swinging for the fences - if you think the guy is coachable and could potentially become a top 5 defensive player in the NFL, you take him. Thats the type of upside we are talking about here with allen imo. He has first team all-pro potential. 10 hours ago, Forge said: 10 hours ago, N4L said: Nick is an absolute techniction and I honestly don't know what there is to improve on. Can someone tell me what his weaknesses are? He doesn't really have any major red flags / weaknesses. He has things he can improve, obviously, but nothing that is a major concern. He's not the most explosive or bendy athlete ever, but neither was Joey. His biggest weakness may be awareness / recognition? He's so aggressive at times that he can get washed out by a good scheme block, may over pursue and he may break off his containment, bite hard on play actions and the like. Other than that, there's really not a ton not to like. He's never played a season as grueling as the NFL schedule, so he may hit a rookie wall hard. His first two years, he was in a big time rotation (that's why his bulk stats aren't uber impressive), and then this year, when he would have been on the field more than ever, he got hurt and decided not to come back. I know you are an ohio state fan, so I know you have seen a lot of the guy. The first part of your post I have no issue with. Its what we see Aaron Donald do, he is a one man wrecking crew who has one goal in mind, to CAUSE HAVOC. If a defender is too aggressive but he is trying to make splash plays, and is actually is making splash plays consistently, then I will take some good with bad. No player in the history of football is perfect on every play, but we need a guy who is going to get TFL, sacks, deflect passes, force/recover fumbles etc. Bosa does all of that. Its also very typical of a rotational player. He comes in and tries to make splash plays. The bold part of your post is actually terrifying. I remember when aldon smith was only coming in on third downs, it made him look godly. When a guy has to play every snap compared to 1/3, it makes a HUGE difference in their overall play. Will someone be able to post some stats about snaps played, and percentage of total possible snaps played? I didn't realize Bosa was such a rotational player, Ive only seen the tapes that are bosa centric, which only show plays where he is on the field LOL but that could be a reason for concern. This debate will be going on for the next 4 months lol (also I joined this site on 1/1/2007, 12 years to the day, felt worth mentioning - GO NINERS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 20 hours ago, Forge said: Just for those curious - Josh Allen has accepted an invite to the senior bowl, and will be on the south roster, I believe (whom we are coaching) They've announced rosters already? Do we know for certain he will be on the South roster? Because I would LOVE for us to get chance to coach by Allen and Thornhill. That would be awesome actually.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 7 hours ago, 757-NINER said: Yeah that's been one of my concerns with Allen....defending the run. He gets engulfed way too often when teams run straight at him. He's great at chasing down plays from the backside but he doesn't seem to stack and shed when he's playside. Doesn't seem strong enough to hold containment. I really want to see him at the Senior Bowl. He doesn't look like he plays at the 258 lbs he's listed. Seems like he's around 240 but could just be his body type. I too, thought about him as more of a SAM before the season started but he played more along the edge and started getting sacks so he kind of morphed into this edge guy. His versatility is absolutely intriguing though. The possibility of a guy who could switch from SAM to Leo on any given play is EXCATLY what this defense needs. That type of flexibility would be a incredible. He's a very good in coverage also. My one thing is I'm not sure if he is a difference maker as pass-rusher, at the next level. He doesn't convert speed-to-power well at all. He really just runs the arc as a pass-rusher, with no real moves or counters when his speed rush is negated. We need our own version of a Khalil Mack type of player if you're going pass-rusher. I see more Ahmad Brooks...good pass-rusher that will make the splash plays every now and again. Probably gets you 8-10 sacks every year but not a pernninal All-Pro who gets you around 12-16 sacks regularly and makes offenses have to account for him every play. Like I said, I really want to see him in the Senior Bowl and get a better view of his entire game. Is that what you saw on tape regarding his edge defense? Because I don't agree. At all. After watching just about all of his snaps, he holds the edge well (though doesn't penetrate or submarine plays like Bosa does on a regular basis). He forced a lot of runs back inside. Now, Kentucky's ILBs/SS were pretty darn bad and missed tackles when those runs bent back inside. But I didn't see him get washed out of the play. Quite the contrary. He often stacked his tackle well and only got washed out of the play very occasionally. Now, he may get the rep either way given his size and position and the fact he's gained a decent bit of weight this year and played to a different profile. But I just didn't see it personally. I'm happy to hear from folks that saw the tape and can educate me differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 hours ago, N4L said: Honestly, who cares about the run defense? lol get the guy who rushes the passer the best Pass rushing is far more important for the LEO, so while the run D is less important for him... 10 hours ago, 757-NINER said: He doesn't convert speed-to-power well at all. He really just runs the arc as a pass-rusher ^ THIS would be the potential concern to look closer into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, 757-NINER said: They've announced rosters already? Do we know for certain he will be on the South roster? Because I would LOVE for us to get chance to coach by Allen and Thornhill. That would be awesome actually.... The rosters get announced in the 16th, however UK players have always been on the south roster. There's never been a case where they were in the North so far as I know. That doesn't guarantee he ends up on the south roster, of course, but high likelihood. Same for Thornhill. Uva has historically been on the south, but WV and VaTech have historically been on the North, so I can see a scenario where need puts Thornhill on the North, but he should be on the south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 11 hours ago, 757-NINER said: He doesn't look like he plays at the 258 lbs he's listed. Seems like he's around 240 but could just be his body type Yeah, he's certainly in the 240s. That being said, for the guys I think would play Leo, as I said to oldie, he's probably the third biggest of the potential first rounders (I think Ferrell is SDE) besides Bosa and probably should now that I think about it. Burns and polite are playing closer to 230, so they have a good chunk to add. 11 hours ago, 757-NINER said: I too, thought about him as more of a SAM before the season started but he played more along the edge and started getting sacks so he kind of morphed into this edge guy. His versatility is absolutely intriguing though Like I said, I really want to see him in the Senior Bowl and get a better view of his entire game Funny you say this. I said earlier this year (pretty sure in this very thread), that I wasn't sure what to do with him in our scheme. I actually thought he was going to go a similar route as Anthony Barr and be an off ball linebacker or something instead of a traditional pass rusher (actually not completely convinced this isn't true yet, but I will give him a shot at Leo as he does profile there well enough physically). His season has convinced me that he has a future as a pass rusher in some capacity(especially with a good coach that can teach him technique). He's raw at it, no doubt there. But if he can flip between Sam and Leo, get 8-10 sacks a year, and do other things fairly well, that's a pretty damn good pick. I get that it may be slightly underwhelming, as that is more of a solid double than a home run difference making pick, but if it comes down to it, I'm actually fairly happy with a solid double. And that's assuming his pass rushing doesn't get better. The senior bowl will certainly be nice to see him paired up with better tackles, get better coaching and see how he responds, but going up against Sec competition makes me feel a little better. I think his measurements at the combine will be important. I'm with you that I doubt he is 258, 250 sounds more realistic (while playing in the 240s), and he's also 6'4. If he comes in at the high 240s and his height is a couple inches generous (which wouldn't be the first time) and he's closer to 6'2, he may profile better as a Sam in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Allen ending the season on a high note. One sack so far. Ran a stunt, pushed off the guard and got to mcsorley up the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherm Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Forge said: Allen ending the season on a high note. One sack so far. Ran a stunt, pushed off the guard and got to mcsorley up the middle That was his 2nd sack...lol they left him unblocked on his 1st sack right before PSU missed FG. Just doin what he has done all season long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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