2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[Ftn49]

38 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Defense to me was overrated from the few games I've seen of theirs. Don't get me wrong, Williams is great, but that secondary can be had. Thompson is supposedly this great FS on the next level, but I just don't see it. He lacks the extra gear and none of their corners playing right now are any special. I know they have a freshmen who is supposedly the next big thing at CB, but he's not playing yet...Well, he is in the game right now, but not one of their starters. 

Surtain has been starting since day 1 and continues to be unless that changed from the SEC CG

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

Surtain has been starting since day 1 and continues to be unless that changed from the SEC CG

Has he? Haven't really paid attention to him. 

Anyways, the secondary is not all that great, definitely not as much hype as they were getting. They were there to be had. 

[Ftn49]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Has he? Haven't really paid attention to him. 

Anyways, the secondary is not all that great, definitely not as much hype as they were getting. They were there to be had. 

Yeah, its possible he hit a freshman wall. He was playing better earlier in the year from my understanding, but then the whole bama team was too. The secondary was definitely the weak link for them this year. 

The only reason I know about Surtain is Georgia got his corner mate in Tyson Cambell and it was kind of a competition if you want to call it in who got the better one. Two five star corners on the same high school team. I'm guessing they got ran against lol. Anyway, Surtain was more polished and Cambell had the higher upside.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Ftn49 said:

Yeah, its possible he hit a freshman wall. He was playing better earlier in the year from my understanding, but then the whole bama team was too. The secondary was definitely the weak link for them this year. 

The only reason I know about Surtain is Georgia got his corner mate in Tyson Cambell and it was kind of a competition if you want to call it in who got the better one. Two five star corners on the same high school team. I'm guessing they got ran against lol. Anyway, Surtain was more polished and Cambell had the higher upside.

I see, you could tell he is going to be really really good. His dad was damn good in his prime and supposedly Jr could be even better. 

[JIllg]

Trayvon Mullen balled out last night. It's been hard to evaluate him (for our system) on tape. He plays a lot of cover 2 and cover 4 zones and generally has less responsibility than our corners usually have. But he was a huge part of Venables' takedown of the Alabama offense. Handled cover 3 responsibilities well with a pick as Clemson surprisingly rotated to that coverage. Timed a blitz excellently. He has the size and the frame and the length. And I've felt on looking through his reps that he looks a more fluid athlete than most. It's just going to be hard when we have less reps to go on. 

[Forge]

If Arizona offered #1 overall for #2, a 2020 second, this year's third, and a sweetener (mid to late round pick, swap of picks, whatever), would you do it? 

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

If Arizona offered #1 overall for #2, a 2020 second, this year's third, and a sweetener (mid to late round pick, swap of picks, whatever), would you do it? 

Probably yes.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Probably yes.

I honestly think so as well. Honestly, as crazy as it sounds, I think we are the most logical trade partner for Arizona for the #1 overall pick, particularly if the cardinals love Williams. The jets already lack a a second this year, the Raiders trade for Mack would look even worse in my opinion and I don't see why you would trade premier capital such as a late first in a full rebuild to acquire one player. The bucs are prime candidates to move down, not up, given their position just ahead of the Jags / Giants. 

We aren't in a rebuild in the way that the Jets / Raiders are. We want to be able to compete, but we need a game changer on the edge. I think the Niners would potentially be in on this type of deal if it were offered. 

[Justone2]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I honestly think so as well. Honestly, as crazy as it sounds, I think we are the most logical trade partner for Arizona for the #1 overall pick, particularly if the cardinals love Williams. The jets already lack a a second this year, the Raiders trade for Mack would look even worse in my opinion and I don't see why you would trade premier capital such as a late first in a full rebuild to acquire one player. The bucs are prime candidates to move down, not up, given their position just ahead of the Jags / Giants. 

We aren't in a rebuild in the way that the Jets / Raiders are. We want to be able to compete, but we need a game changer on the edge. I think the Niners would potentially be in on this type of deal if it were offered. 

In a trade for Bosa we make the most sense. If some teams fall in love with Haskins there could be a even better offer coming in from someone like the Jaguars.

[JIllg]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000985271/article/how-kentuckys-josh-allen-became-nfl-drafts-fastestrising-prospect 

Not sure if posted previously. 

[y2lamanaki]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

If Arizona offered #1 overall for #2, a 2020 second, this year's third, and a sweetener (mid to late round pick, swap of picks, whatever), would you do it? 

No. I don't think that there is a far and away best prospect in this class and am comfortable with missing anyone the Cardinals might take. I don't want to miss out on other strong prospects when we have so many needs mainly just because one star's brother has also been good in the NFL.

If the team trades out of #2, it better be down.

[Ftn49]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

If Arizona offered #1 overall for #2, a 2020 second, this year's third, and a sweetener (mid to late round pick, swap of picks, whatever), would you do it? 

I hope not, if we were only one player away from being essentially complete I'd say hell yeah, but we need quite a bit more than one player. We players on every level of the defense minus interior defensive line including multiple options in the secondary. Interior offensive line and wr help as well on the offense. WR is probably the position we need the least of those mentioned but we still need more options, more competition etc.

[Forge]

1 minute ago, y2lamanaki said:

No. I don't think that there is a far and away best prospect in this class and am comfortable with missing anyone the Cardinals might take. I don't want to miss out on other strong prospects when we have so many needs mainly just because one star's brother has also been good in the NFL.

If the team trades out of #2, it better be down.

I could change my mind based on what we do in FA, but I think for a limited offer like that, for a guy that I feel by far the most certain of in this draft, I think I'm taking it. If we were to sign a big edge guy in FA to where the need isn't as prominent, I'm okay with not doing it. But otherwise, Bosa is by far the best solution to the edge problem unless you want Williams on the interior (which I could understand). Even Allen, probably the consensus #2 edge guy in this class, has caused debate about how he would be utilized at the next level in this thread. I've already stated that I think Polite is destined for a 3-4 role, and Burns would have to put on quite a bit of weight and I think is more longer term if you want him to man the edge. Sweat has the size, length that we would want, but I simply don't think he's as good as the others in this class as far as rushing the passer goes. Ferrell seems a better fit at the SDE to me. 

I don't know, for as deep as this class is, I don't think it's as pitch perfect a match with regards to prospects as we want to think. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Ftn49 said:

I hope not, if we were only one player away from being essentially complete I'd say hell yeah, but we need quite a bit more than one player. We players on every level of the defense minus interior defensive line including multiple options in the secondary. Interior offensive line and wr help as well on the offense. WR is probably the position we need the least of those mentioned but we still need more options, more competition etc.

Here's the thing - more often than not, you're not getting starters in rounds 3 and 4 anyway. So to me, those picks are whatever. This isn't a particularly deep draft either (it's pretty weak in my opinion). I'm perfectly fine with unloading those two picks in this draft to move up. They hold relatively nominal value to me. The second next year could potentially hurt, or it could potentially be a pick in the 50's. I agree that we are not one player away, but a top notch edge guy transforms this defense. The impact could be huge. More pressure, more turnovers, etc. We would still have our second this year to potentially procure a starter. Given that free agency comes first, we will have a lot better idea on what our team looks like. A couple of positions filled by signing an off the ball linebacker, potentially a safety and the teams looks a lot better. 

[Ftn49]

49 minutes ago, Forge said:

Here's the thing - more often than not, you're not getting starters in rounds 3 and 4 anyway. So to me, those picks are whatever. This isn't a particularly deep draft either (it's pretty weak in my opinion). I'm perfectly fine with unloading those two picks in this draft to move up. They hold relatively nominal value to me. The second next year could potentially hurt, or it could potentially be a pick in the 50's. I agree that we are not one player away, but a top notch edge guy transforms this defense. The impact could be huge. More pressure, more turnovers, etc. We would still have our second this year to potentially procure a starter. Given that free agency comes first, we will have a lot better idea on what our team looks like. A couple of positions filled by signing an off the ball linebacker, potentially a safety and the teams looks a lot better. 

So I did a little research, I took three relatively random teams which ended up being NE, LA rams and MIN. NE had 8 first or second round starters on there team meaning roughly 64 percent were starters taken 3rd round or later. The rams have 13 first or second rounds meaning  41 percent of the starting roster is 3rd round or lower. Minnesota had 10 first or second rounders starting equating to 45 percent being lower than the third round. 

You can argue it doesn't happen as often that you get a starter from a later round, however the bulk of nfl rosters are made from 3rd round or lower selections. I mean it makes sense too. There are only 64 selections in the first two rounds then roughly 200 after that for any given draft.