Denzel Ward

[Iamcanadian]

5 minutes ago, Keylargobrownie said:

Ah yes which comes first the chicken or the egg, or in this case pass rush vs secondary. The short answer is that u are both correct,  you  need both. In this particular argument I have to give the ✓+ to buno, although I do agree that the pass rush is more important, ward is a vast improvement to the secondary, where as Chubb is not as much of an upgrade over ogbah. 

You may be right, perhaps Ogbah ability come into the equation, but on its own merit, is not not which came first, the chicken or the egg, it is definitely the DE who trumps the CB every time, just look over the last decade and count the # of DE's that went #1 overall vs CB's and you have your answer!!!

[bosko1616]

Denzel Ward basically started for two full years he was the starting NCB lasts year before moving outside and was lockdown at both 

[bosko1616]

Also Chubbs not even in my top 5 DL prospects next year 

[Bernie's Curls]

If I'm "old school" then so be it. I like seeing high picks spent on the DLine. I like having multiple options to rush the passer. I like having the ability to sub in another excellent DE be it for fatigue or injury reasons. Conversely, I was very very high on Isaiah Oliver and have rose-colored glasses on his upside to be a true CB1. It may just be a matter of opinion now, since it obviously doesn't factor in anymore with how we went, but I'll probably advocate for selecting an interior DT or pass-rushing DE in the 1st or 2nd Round every year. That's just how I roll.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Bernie's Curls said:

If I'm "old school" then so be it. I like seeing high picks spent on the DLine. I like having multiple options to rush the passer. I like having the ability to sub in another excellent DE be it for fatigue or injury reasons. Conversely, I was very very high on Isaiah Oliver and have rose-colored glasses on his upside to be a true CB1. It may just be a matter of opinion now, since it obviously doesn't factor in anymore with how we went, but I'll probably advocate for selecting an interior DT or pass-rushing DE in the 1st or 2nd Round every year. That's just how I roll.

I generally agree with you philosophically, but there has to be some balance.

Having a lock down corner who can be left on an island one on one vs the best in the game allows for a lot of flexibility in scheme.

[Bernie's Curls]

*exception being if we truly solidify a front 4 and have at least a 5th to rotate in that's got true NFL talent. Then, yes. Take that corner at #4.

[buno67]

30 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

Well, every GM in the NFL pretty well believes it too, so it is hardly old school. Pass rushers give the QB less time to find open receivers and allows weaker CB's to survive for a long time. Chubb would not have faced double teams as Garrett would have got that task and Chubb would have played against RT's, far less adapt at stopping pass rushers and I suspect between them, they might have been good for 25 sacks a season and believe m,e, when you get 25 sacks from your DE's, your CB's and S's do not have to be great to be effective. 

Now if Ward was head and shoulders rated above Chubb, I could see taking the CB, but I do not believe that was the case in this scenario, so I really question the wisdom of taking Ward over Chubb??? Watch Denver's defense next year with a Von Miller/Chubb attack a see which defense is more effective. Theirs or ours???

I think if a team was in desperate need of a legit DE or a legit Corner, you take the DE IMO. The Browns were not in desperate need of a DE but were in the need of a corner. Ward might of even be rated higher than Chubb as well. 

[Bernie's Curls]

I hope with all the majesty of a Brady Quinn EAS Commerical that Ward quickly becomes that lockdown corner that we all seek, Ogbah elevates his game, and all our DE's stay healthy.

 

[buno67]

11 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

Also Chubbs not even in my top 5 DL prospects next year 

• Bosa
• Lawerence
• Oliver
• Gary
• Wilkens
• Ferrell

To me those would be the 6 best DL prospects next year. I would say Bosa and Ferrell would be #1 and #2. Oliver would be #3. When it comes to the others, It comes down to matter of opinion. I think Chubb would be competing for #4. I wonder how everyone of those guys will play this next season

[Keylargobrownie]

29 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

You may be right, perhaps Ogbah ability come into the equation, but on its own merit, is not not which came first, the chicken or the egg, it is definitely the DE who trumps the CB every time, just look over the last decade and count the # of DE's that went #1 overall vs CB's and you have your answer!!!

Well of course only QB, de, and sometimes Lt goes #1. I agreed that pass rush is more important, with the caveat that you do need both. Point is that we already have a #1 and #2 de. We didn't have a #1 cb, had we taken Chubb it would have been 3-0, you need a well rounded roster. 

[MSURacerDT55]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Now if Ward was head and shoulders rated above Chubb, I could see taking the CB, but I do not believe that was the case in this scenario, so I really question the wisdom of taking Ward over Chubb???

Im sorry but Ward is better at what he does than Chubb is at what he does. i.e. Ward is better covering than Chubb is as a pass rusher. Thats what the F.O. saw

[ReggieCamp]

I HATE drafting need over BPA (especially in Round 1), but this one is pretty easy to justify. Do we all understand just how poor our DB’s were last year? When BBC quickly becomes your best corner, you’re a bad secondary.  A really bad one. I’m glad to see that we addressed the secondary aggressively because it was THAT bad. Plus, it’s possible that Ward was the BPA anyway.

I’m willing to give Williams a pass for some of his ridiculous formations because the personnel was really that bad. Maybe now we’ll see what he can really do. I like me some Sashi, but cutting Joe Haden was a straight-up stupid move. Not only did it weaken us, but it strengthened our rival. Puke.

[Keylargobrownie]

2 hours ago, ReggieCamp said:

 

I’m willing to give Williams a pass for some of his ridiculous formations because the personnel was really that bad. Maybe now we’ll see what he can really do. I like me some Sashi, but cutting Joe Haden was a straight-up stupid move. Not only did it weaken us, but it strengthened our rival. Puke.

Exactly had we taken Chubb, we still wouldn't have had a #1 cb, and may still have to have played that awful "soft zone" / punt formation for peppers. Yes bpa is almost always the way to go, but if you have to players with a similar grade you go with the need pick. For instance if the giants had a Todd gurley type rb, would they have selected Barkley or a position of need?? 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

32 minutes ago, Keylargobrownie said:

Exactly had we taken Chubb, we still wouldn't have had a #1 cb, and may still have to have played that awful "soft zone" / punt formation for peppers.

I agree we’d need a corner, but that scheme has never been necessary. Greggggggg out here acting as if he’s the first DC with bad corners.

 

[buno67]

3 hours ago, ReggieCamp said:

I HATE drafting need over BPA (especially in Round 1), but this one is pretty easy to justify. Do we all understand just how poor our DB’s were last year? When BBC quickly becomes your best corner, you’re a bad secondary.  A really bad one. I’m glad to see that we addressed the secondary aggressively because it was THAT bad. Plus, it’s possible that Ward was the BPA anyway.

I’m willing to give Williams a pass for some of his ridiculous formations because the personnel was really that bad. Maybe now we’ll see what he can really do. I like me some Sashi, but cutting Joe Haden was a straight-up stupid move. Not only did it weaken us, but it strengthened our rival. Puke.

Question is are we sure the Browns didn’t have him as BPA on their board. We think Chubb might of been BPA but we’re not sure. Watching the Build the Browns you can get a feeling that they liked Ward a lot and had him highly rated on their board