2019 NFL draft where the jags pick at 32;) (Update: pick at 7)

[LinderFournette]

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

There's a bit of "chicken or the egg?" component to that discussion with TE utilization here.  We really haven't had anyone that resembles a bigtime seam threat/move TE type to see how they'd be used.  But as a whole, yeah...i just don't see this team really using that type of player to maximum effect, unless we have a completely different staff in place, and move away from the type of football Coughlin has shown he really wants to install here.

Same sort of thing that made a guy like Gesicki a really improbable fit for us last year.  Those types of jumbo WR types who don't block, don't run a lot of traditional TE type routes, etc. just don't seem like a fit here.  Which is fine.

They did show that TE is a position they wanted to at least upgrade a bit...going out and getting ASJ.  And there were rumours that they were really after a TE in the mid-rounds of the last draft but kinda struck out.  Still seem to be looking at more well-rounded types though.  I haven't really dived into all of the TEs that much yet, but what i have seen, and a casual glance around at the rest, there looks to be a decent supply of those types, or at least guys who show the ability to develop into good, well-rounded TEs in this draft.  So that's good. 

I'd expect them to use at least one pick on someone there.  Though when you look at TEs as essentially, "supplemental blocker" first, "receiver" second...that kinda inherently makes it a bit less of a premium position i think.  Less like the sort of thing i'd expect them to spend a 1st round pick on.  But who knows.

even when we had coughlin as HC TE wasnt really a premium position.   i mean Pete mitchell was a 4th round rookie whom we traded for in exchange for a wr named Mike williams, who had a entire career of 21 catches for 292 yards.  i mean the only time we spent a premium draft resource on a TE(ie a round 1-3 pick) was Mercedes Lewis. 

for a historical purposes we drafted 1 in 1997(5th round), 2002(4th), 2003(4th), 2006(1st), 2 in 2015(both 7ths). thats 6 picks out of 25 years of picks(im 2 lazy to count that but im sure its in the 150+ range).

[.Buzz]

Think we'll need to start seriously looking into Lock, Jones, Grier, etc. now.

[KhanYouDigIt]

Just now, .Buzz said:

Think we'll need to start seriously looking into Lock, Jones, Grier, etc. now.

Grier is my 2nd choice after Haskins.

[.Buzz]

Just now, KhanYouDigIt said:

Grier is my 2nd choice after Haskins.

I've heard some Keenum comps and I sort of see it. Is there something that you see in him that makes you think he'll be better than that?

I will say, I love that guys attitude on the field. Like that fire in a QB. 

Lock's upside draws me in after Haskins/Herbert. I know we've been jaded by a couple prototypical looking guys like Lock before but I just feel like he presents the best upside of the next tier.

[.Buzz]

 

[Tugboat]

5 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

even when we had coughlin as HC TE wasnt really a premium position.   i mean Pete mitchell was a 4th round rookie whom we traded for in exchange for a wr named Mike williams, who had a entire career of 21 catches for 292 yards.  i mean the only time we spent a premium draft resource on a TE(ie a round 1-3 pick) was Mercedes Lewis. 

for a historical purposes we drafted 1 in 1997(5th round), 2002(4th), 2003(4th), 2006(1st), 2 in 2015(both 7ths). thats 6 picks out of 25 years of picks(im 2 lazy to count that but im sure its in the 150+ range).

I do still think it's a position they've identified as "needs improvement", and they tried with ASJ.  Maybe they'll just hang their hat on him missing the whole year and come back with basically the same group and hope he improves it.

But talking TEs drafted in general, i think leads into the reality that huge impact "rookie TEs" in the NFL are the exception, more than the rule.  Even "premium pick" guys tend to take at least a year or two to find their NFL game.  It's a tough position to transition.  Especially when you're asking them to not only be a terrific blocker, but to get out there and run a lot of really tough, really precise routes against increasingly athletic LBers and Safeties, and make those really tough catches on top of it all.

That's where i definitely agree that it seems more like Coughlin would lean toward spend a lesser asset/later pick on a position like TE.  If the right guy is there though...who knows.  We clearly need weapons and an infusion of talent all over the offensive skill positions.  The TE group hasn't been good enough this year, and i don't think it's any kind of guarantee ASJ is even back at his cap number.

[LinderFournette]

14 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I do still think it's a position they've identified as "needs improvement", and they tried with ASJ.  Maybe they'll just hang their hat on him missing the whole year and come back with basically the same group and hope he improves it.

But talking TEs drafted in general, i think leads into the reality that huge impact "rookie TEs" in the NFL are the exception, more than the rule.  Even "premium pick" guys tend to take at least a year or two to find their NFL game.  It's a tough position to transition.  Especially when you're asking them to not only be a terrific blocker, but to get out there and run a lot of really tough, really precise routes against increasingly athletic LBers and Safeties, and make those really tough catches on top of it all.

That's where i definitely agree that it seems more like Coughlin would lean toward spend a lesser asset/later pick on a position like TE.  If the right guy is there though...who knows.  We clearly need weapons and an infusion of talent all over the offensive skill positions.  The TE group hasn't been good enough this year, and i don't think it's any kind of guarantee ASJ is even back at his cap number.

his cap number isnt bad at all. its like 4.5 million.  we can be fine with that and we certainly can blame injuries at the TE spot to being not good enough. i mean at 1 point we were down our top 3 TEs on the roster with ASJ, Paul, and J.O.S.

[.Buzz]

Could you imagine this awful of a football team dropping all the way to 11th-13th in the draft though?

Man that would be tough to stomach.

[LinderFournette]

14 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Could you imagine this awful of a football team dropping all the way to 11th-13th in the draft though?

Man that would be tough to stomach.

that is why it is imperative that should have tanked harder last game. 

[.Buzz]

Just now, LinderFournette said:

that is why it is imperative that should have tanked harder last game. 

Tanking is something brought on by fans. Players aren't going to tank for a draft pick, nor is Marrone and the coaching staff who have their jobs on the line.

[LinderFournette]

Just now, .Buzz said:

Tanking is something brought on by fans. Players aren't going to tank for a draft pick, nor is Marrone and the coaching staff who have their jobs on the line.

im like 95% certain TC is gonna stay. the only people at risks are position coaches and coordinators.   Marrone from what i can tell is relatively safe.  they will give him the benefit of doubt cuz of the numerous injuries offensively as the reason why we under performed. 

you cant tell me the team isnt tanking. i mean your gonna inactive our 2nd best pass catcher and best pass-pro RB for dave williams or carlos hyde.  then you have the refusal to move from kessler back to bortles tho honestly both are inadequate starters. 

 

i feel like we need huge staff changes because their are certain position groups that have really been bad. 

[.Buzz]

2 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

im like 95% certain TC is gonna stay. the only people at risks are position coaches and coordinators.   Marrone from what i can tell is relatively safe.  they will give him the benefit of doubt cuz of the numerous injuries offensively as the reason why we under performed. 

you cant tell me the team isnt tanking. i mean your gonna inactive our 2nd best pass catcher and best pass-pro RB for dave williams or carlos hyde.  then you have the refusal to move from kessler back to bortles tho honestly both are inadequate starters. 

 

i feel like we need huge staff changes because their are certain position groups that have really been bad. 

So if we we're tanking why'd Marrone take Kessler out and put in Bortles when our offense was inept and not able to do anything?

Our OC and DC gonna tank when if they do poorly they could be out of a job? Players who are being paid and trying to show out to stay on the team or catch on somewhere else going to pack it in so the team can have a higher draft pick?

 

[Adrenaline_Flux]

Trying to evaluate different guys in a lost season to see who may be worth keeping isn't the same thing as tanking.

We've gone over this before, but I guess we need to again. Tanking in the NFL is impossible due to roster and staff turnover and the short career span of an NFL player. This isn't basketball where teams are much smaller, there's a viable international market to play, and players on average last longer (4.8 average career length vs 3.3) and on average have higher earnings to fall back on ($24 million vs $3 million).

[.Buzz]

Welp

[.Buzz]