Tugboat Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: like if simmons was there id consider it but at the same point hes likely not taking a snap this year for us. I'd be really disappointed if they draft Simmons at all tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 Just now, Tugboat said: I'd be really disappointed if they draft Simmons at all tbh. id view it as more of a future pick then a help us this year pick. hes got top 10 talent sad about his acl tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Of course it would have to be a A1 match in a guy that your comfortable with taking and a player that you’re going to get decent production from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: id view it as more of a future pick then a help us this year pick. hes got top 10 talent sad about his acl tho I think he’s talking his character issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: id view it as more of a future pick then a help us this year pick. hes got top 10 talent sad about his acl tho The fact he's expected to miss time and comes with that extra questionmark about how he'll come back and how he'll hold up over time isn't great. However, wouldn't put him strictly on a DND list for me by itself. The other stuff though. Do not want. Cannot cheer for. Bad stuff man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 On 22/04/2019 at 3:48 AM, JaguarCrazy2832 said: People keep mentioning how rookie TEs rarely make an impact but with CC and Yannick how big of an impact will an edge rusher make? It might be okay for a Fowler type piece but unless we are so far down the rabbit hole of this is our year and if we don’t win we blow it up bc we need the impact NOW then I think we’ve missed something. The fact is that the offense sucks and while historically TE doesn’t make a huge impact, it would make a big one on offense for us even outside the numbers. We need mismatches that can run, catch and block. We want to be physical in the run game, he can do that Im fine with Hock at 7, I’m fine with an edge at 7 but the whole TEs don’t make an impact in their rookie year is tiring. Every TE is different. Every offense is different. Hell he could be our #1 receiving threat right out of the gate bc our situation at WR isn’t great but i bet alot of others teams had better ones that drafted TE high Exactly. It's easy to talk about how TEs don't often step right in and catch 40+ passes a year. But you can say the same of rookie pass rushers other than the best of them coming in and posting 10+ sack impact as a rookie either. Especially not likely behind Calais and Yan on our defense where they'd be a rotational player, barring injury. That's where there are mitigating factors with Hockenson's potential impact too, compared to the "average rookie TE". 1)Hockenson is already a much more polished blocker than most. One of the biggest struggles for rookie TEs tends to just be getting on the field all the time as a "TE1", if they are still learning the ropes as a blocker. Less of a concern with Hockenson than your typical college TE coming out. 2)We don't have anyone else at the position. We've got Swaim who is maybe equipped to handle 20-30 little checkdown dump offs, and O'Shaughnessy who is maybe good for another 20 grabs if you really force-feed him, but probably won't feel bad about stealing "targets" from. There are those 40+ targets majorly up for grabs with this offense, especially considering how much BDN at the helm appears to love throwing to big targets like that. That's where, what is "typical" may not really matter in this case. If a guy like Hockenson can come into this specific situation for the Jaguars, there's room for absolutely massive improvement from what we've had there the last few years, if he's even just "decent" with an Ertz-esque 40/470/4TD type rookie statline as @Speedyg suggested, while not being a major liability as a blocker. That'd be leaps and bounds better than what we've had...at the position that might arguably be the most critical to Nick Foles comfort level and success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I want to go record saying I’d take Ed Oliver if I was making the selection and he is still there which he should be. But he is just the best available player at that slot to me. I think he has to the potential to be ceiling Sapp floor Geno Adkins which to me would be a solid pillar player for the franchise. But I know since they drafted Trash Can 90 last year it’s not going to happen. But to me it’s just a position that I feel like they know how to evaluate and possibly develop. The coaches we’ve had outside of Yann which gives me a glimmer of hope for Bryan. But I’m not really confident in there abilities to develop olineman. Even that’s Marrone’s area of expertise. When the line is healthy they play well together but Cam took steps back. Personally I don’t think is the worker that Searcy and Boselli were. They were technical at their craft and worked during the offseason. I don’t know if Cam is that type of worker. None of the other positions make sense. But when you have an opportunity to draft big athletic, nasty football players like Oliver you don’t pass them up. If they draft TJ I understand it makes sense as well I just feel it’s a reach but I hope he turns out to be a perineal pro bowl player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Tugboat said: Depends 100% on who is still there at 27. If say, a guy i value Top-10 or something is still there, i'd be rip roarin' ready for that. But trading up just for the sake of trading up would be beyond stupid. Especially in this draft, where it looks like that early 2nd of ours could net us a very good, later 1st round caliber talent without even moving up. B/R just gave the Scenario that the Jags trade pick 38 plus one of the 3rd rounders to move back into the 1st. With a potential haul of TJ Hockenson, and Cody Ford would that appease the masses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 56 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said: I want to go record saying I’d take Ed Oliver if I was making the selection and he is still there which he should be. But he is just the best available player at that slot to me. I think he has to the potential to be ceiling Sapp floor Geno Adkins which to me would be a solid pillar player for the franchise. But I know since they drafted Trash Can 90 last year it’s not going to happen. But to me it’s just a position that I feel like they know how to evaluate and possibly develop. The coaches we’ve had outside of Yann which gives me a glimmer of hope for Bryan. But I’m not really confident in there abilities to develop olineman. Even that’s Marrone’s area of expertise. When the line is healthy they play well together but Cam took steps back. Personally I don’t think is the worker that Searcy and Boselli were. They were technical at their craft and worked during the offseason. I don’t know if Cam is that type of worker. None of the other positions make sense. But when you have an opportunity to draft big athletic, nasty football players like Oliver you don’t pass them up. If they draft TJ I understand it makes sense as well I just feel it’s a reach but I hope he turns out to be a perineal pro bowl player. I'm all there for Oliver if he falls to us. I'd be very happy with that. The bolded is logically incongruous though. You say that's a position you feel like they know how to evaluate and possibly develop, but at the same time...accuse them of picking a "Trash Can" with little hope he'll develop into much, at the position. I don't understand how you're reconciling these two concepts at all here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 19 hours ago, LinderFournette said: I lucked into my schedule having the times off I’ll be watching the baby first shift with the hopes he’ll be chill before we pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 9 hours ago, DuvalsKing said: Question I want to know to those who want TJ drafted what type of career do you perceive that TJ will end up with saying that he stays relatively healthy? Would you say that he would be close to Mercedes Lewis type career or Witten type career? Definitely Witten. Witten is worth 7 not Lewis(career wise duh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 9 hours ago, DuvalsKing said: If the Jags called the Raiders and said we’ll give you this yrs 2nd and next yrs 2nd for The Raiders No. 27.. would you object? No This team has too many needs to be dealing those type of picks plus the difference between 27 and what 38(?) shouldn’t cost that much and if it does then its a big no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 hours ago, LinderFournette said: like if simmons was there id consider it but at the same point hes likely not taking a snap this year for us. Trading up for a guy already with medical red flags feels like a huge risk even moreso than just flat out drafting him round 2. Seems unnecessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Tugboat said: The fact he's expected to miss time and comes with that extra questionmark about how he'll come back and how he'll hold up over time isn't great. However, wouldn't put him strictly on a DND list for me by itself. The other stuff though. Do not want. Cannot cheer for. Bad stuff man. What did he do again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Tugboat said: Exactly. It's easy to talk about how TEs don't often step right in and catch 40+ passes a year. But you can say the same of rookie pass rushers other than the best of them coming in and posting 10+ sack impact as a rookie either. Especially not likely behind Calais and Yan on our defense where they'd be a rotational player, barring injury. That's where there are mitigating factors with Hockenson's potential impact too, compared to the "average rookie TE". 1)Hockenson is already a much more polished blocker than most. One of the biggest struggles for rookie TEs tends to just be getting on the field all the time as a "TE1", if they are still learning the ropes as a blocker. Less of a concern with Hockenson than your typical college TE coming out. 2)We don't have anyone else at the position. We've got Swaim who is maybe equipped to handle 20-30 little checkdown dump offs, and O'Shaughnessy who is maybe good for another 20 grabs if you really force-feed him, but probably won't feel bad about stealing "targets" from. There are those 40+ targets majorly up for grabs with this offense, especially considering how much BDN at the helm appears to love throwing to big targets like that. That's where, what is "typical" may not really matter in this case. If a guy like Hockenson can come into this specific situation for the Jaguars, there's room for absolutely massive improvement from what we've had there the last few years, if he's even just "decent" with an Ertz-esque 40/470/4TD type rookie statline as @Speedyg suggested, while not being a major liability as a blocker. That'd be leaps and bounds better than what we've had...at the position that might arguably be the most critical to Nick Foles comfort level and success. Hock helps Foles Helps LF Helps keep the defense honest because he is a dual threat where you don’t know if he’s running a route or blocking unlike Lewis who felt more like a 6th OL later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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