.Buzz Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said: I don’t know how you consider pass rush a luxury pick for a team while although they’ll have Campbell and Yann. Campbell more than likely won’t be back next year. Has anyone forecasted the available quality of edge rushers for next yr I’m willing to bet it’s not going to be as good as this year. If Campbell or Yann is injured for an extended period of time who are you running out there Smoot? As a coach would you rather scheme a game plan with minimal use rate for TE position? Or scheme a game plan where you’re running Smoot and Yann at DE? I’ve seen this team play 24 yrs with out a stud TE, and I’ve seen this team with piss poor play at DE too. And I’d say we’ve looked our worst when you’re consistently running proverbially bums out at defensive end. 🤨 You feel comfortable with Smoot and McCray as one of your primary pass rushers next season because I’m not. Plus what’s the most important position on the field besides QB? Is it TE or DE? Am I pleased with the TE position as currently constructed? No, I can’t even recall when I’ve been happy with the production of the position with this team. But I’m not hell bent on fixing the position where I’d reach for a TE in the first 7 picks in an extremely talented pool of TEs. This is a draft that has really no wiggle room for mistakes for this FO. If they swing and miss with this 7 overall pick it could have this front office on city streets by the end of December. I like Hock i’ve been intrigued to wonder what effect he will have in the run and passing game for this team but I just don’t see a conservative figure like Coughlin even doing it with how this team is constructed and forecasting future drafts and possible loss of free agents for this team. You can literally pull the "if so and so gets hurt, who are we running out there" with pretty much any position. Edge definitely wouldn't be a luxury pick, but I can get why we'd want a potentially top end TE who could come in and potentially completely alter the running of our offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Hock, Jonah or Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Hock, Jonah or Oliver. That might be my top-3 for legitimate options for us unless someone falls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 5 hours ago, .Buzz said: Hock is an elite talent though. I'd maybe understand where you were coming from if the position of less value was also a talent that isn't premium, but... Obviously pass rushers are near the top as far as what you want to have, but when there's a guy like Hock who could really change the landscape of our offense and give Foles (or any QB down the line really) a high end weapon who also will help in the run game it definitely would be good value. I'm team edge/Oliver, but Hockenson is right up there for me. It sounds like OL is heavily likely as well, what are your thoughts regarding that? I'm with you on the other TEs being able to potentially be serious weapons as well, but they likely have a longer wait period as far as becoming a legit weapon whereas I don't think Hock will have that wait period. We signed Foles because we want a quick turnaround and he can provide that, but he also needs guys to work with and it's fairly lacking (although Blake had his part in it, we'll see this year just how big of hand he did have), especially at the TE spot. History tells us even elite prospects at TE take longer to impact the game. We will need to really force feed Hock if we want to see that first year impact. And if we're going to force feed him, then i think similarly we can do the same for lower tier TE. Right now I feel "ok" with OL or Hock. Both are needs with players good enough at 7 to warrant the pick. I don't think Taylor or Dillard are top 7 players in the draft, but they are need positions for us. While Foles need weapons, more importantly we need him to stay upright. Especially because him going down throws our season down the drain given who our current backups are. But very tempted to swing for the fence with a premium pass rusher. Calais can't at forever. We already managed his snaps last season, can only imagine how much more we will need to manage him moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Surprised to see no Sweat or Hock up there. All 3 OTs make the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 People keep mentioning how rookie TEs rarely make an impact but with CC and Yannick how big of an impact will an edge rusher make? It might be okay for a Fowler type piece but unless we are so far down the rabbit hole of this is our year and if we don’t win we blow it up bc we need the impact NOW then I think we’ve missed something. The fact is that the offense sucks and while historically TE doesn’t make a huge impact, it would make a big one on offense for us even outside the numbers. We need mismatches that can run, catch and block. We want to be physical in the run game, he can do that Im fine with Hock at 7, I’m fine with an edge at 7 but the whole TEs don’t make an impact in their rookie year is tiring. Every TE is different. Every offense is different. Hell he could be our #1 receiving threat right out of the gate bc our situation at WR isn’t great but i bet alot of others teams had better ones that drafted TE high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 10 hours ago, .Buzz said: Surprised to see no Sweat or Hock up there. All 3 OTs make the list. Wondering if Sweat is bc of his heart Lock up there still shocks me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: People keep mentioning how rookie TEs rarely make an impact but with CC and Yannick how big of an impact will an edge rusher make? It might be okay for a Fowler type piece but unless we are so far down the rabbit hole of this is our year and if we don’t win we blow it up bc we need the impact NOW then I think we’ve missed something. The fact is that the offense sucks and while historically TE doesn’t make a huge impact, it would make a big one on offense for us even outside the numbers. We need mismatches that can run, catch and block. We want to be physical in the run game, he can do that Im fine with Hock at 7, I’m fine with an edge at 7 but the whole TEs don’t make an impact in their rookie year is tiring. Every TE is different. Every offense is different. Hell he could be our #1 receiving threat right out of the gate bc our situation at WR isn’t great but i bet alot of others teams had better ones that drafted TE high Last 5 selections in the top 10 for the TE position Kyle Brady Ricky Dudley Kellen Winslow Vernon Davis Eric Ebron 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Please be correct on this... Jonah/Hock would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: People keep mentioning how rookie TEs rarely make an impact but with CC and Yannick how big of an impact will an edge rusher make? It might be okay for a Fowler type piece but unless we are so far down the rabbit hole of this is our year and if we don’t win we blow it up bc we need the impact NOW then I think we’ve missed something. The fact is that the offense sucks and while historically TE doesn’t make a huge impact, it would make a big one on offense for us even outside the numbers. We need mismatches that can run, catch and block. We want to be physical in the run game, he can do that Im fine with Hock at 7, I’m fine with an edge at 7 but the whole TEs don’t make an impact in their rookie year is tiring. Every TE is different. Every offense is different. Hell he could be our #1 receiving threat right out of the gate bc our situation at WR isn’t great but i bet alot of others teams had better ones that drafted TE high Edge rushers are premium players and difficult to find. The argument for Hock is that he's supposedly make an immediate impact vs other positions/players. The argument against that is that traditionally, TEs don't make that impact people are expecting of Hock. Even the great ones. Gronk is the one example of immediate impact, and he played in a TE friendly offense, with a HOF QB and a HOF coach who has made a living getting the best out of every player. Ertz had 36/469/4 his rookie year. Since 2011, only 5 TEs have had more than 40 catches (Engram, Little, Reed, Ty e, Wright). It should be noted that Engram was basically playing receiver that rookie year, and was drafted after the "complete all around" great prospect Howard (taken top 10). You can expand that timeframe to 2005 and the number increases from 5 to 13...but most of the TEs on the list are no longer legit options and not what you'd want a top 7 pick to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, Speedyg said: Edge rushers are premium players and difficult to find. The argument for Hock is that he's supposedly make an immediate impact vs other positions/players. The argument against that is that traditionally, TEs don't make that impact people are expecting of Hock. Even the great ones. Gronk is the one example of immediate impact, and he played in a TE friendly offense, with a HOF QB and a HOF coach who has made a living getting the best out of every player. Ertz had 36/469/4 his rookie year. Since 2011, only 5 TEs have had more than 40 catches (Engram, Little, Reed, Ty e, Wright). It should be noted that Engram was basically playing receiver that rookie year, and was drafted after the "complete all around" great prospect Howard (taken top 10). You can expand that timeframe to 2005 and the number increases from 5 to 13...but most of the TEs on the list are no longer legit options and not what you'd want a top 7 pick to be. Agreed on all only reason Engram was picked over Howard was merely because of what he did at the combine. Once again if the team believes Hock is the man i'm with it but for their sake they better be right. Personally i'd rather them take Hock over Taylor, something about the Jags picking Taylor really irks me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyg Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said: Agreed on all only reason Engram was picked over Howard was merely because of what he did at the combine. Once again if the team believes Hock is the man i'm with it but for their sake they better be right. Personally i'd rather them take Hock over Taylor, something about the Jags picking Taylor really irks me. Howard was picked over Engram, but I think I know what you meant to say. Howard was under utilized in Bama, so everyone projected him based on potential according to his measurables. Hock was statistically more productive, but Iowa was more TE friendly. Rare to see two TEs from the same team produce especially in college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, Speedyg said: Howard was picked over Engram, but I think I know what you meant to say. Howard was under utilized in Bama, so everyone projected him based on potential according to his measurables. Hock was statistically more productive, but Iowa was more TE friendly. Rare to see two TEs from the same team produce especially in college You're right I meant to say Engram was considered a late first to second round selection up until his absurd combine numbers.. I remember wanting him to slip to the Jags possibly second round but after that combine he was on his way to a for sure 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 As of April 22, I am on the Hock train at 7. Get OL help in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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