2019 NFL draft where the jags pick at 32;) (Update: pick at 7)

[DuvalsKing]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:10 PM, .Buzz said:

 

The draft is too deep to draft a TE top 10 I don’t thinks it’s happening. The pick will be either 1 of the trenches (Dline or Oline) and seeing the riches at Dline that’s probably where they will go with the pick.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Definitely feel like taking a TE at 7 is a luxury moreso than taking a pass rusher

[Tugboat]

8 hours ago, DuvalsKing said:

The draft is too deep to draft a TE top 10 I don’t thinks it’s happening. The pick will be either 1 of the trenches (Dline or Oline) and seeing the riches at Dline that’s probably where they will go with the pick.

It's a "luxury" where we have an absolutely massive need.  Not only in general, in that our TE group sucks hard...but emphasized because of how much our new bid money BDN QB loves TE type targets.

A RT is also very much a "luxury pick" at 7.  And even a pass rusher, when you look at a team that has both Yan and Calais, for the time being at least.

 

I'd understand RT, because we have nothing solid there and it's a crucial position.  But TE is pretty critical too.

 

And Hockenson is an unusually polished guy who also has huge upside.

[.Buzz]

 

[MightyRx]

Real question. How much better is Hock then the 4th best TE in this draft?

[Adrenaline_Flux]

1 minute ago, MightyRx said:

Real question. How much better is Hock then the 4th best TE in this draft?

Probably similar to the gap from an elite TE like Gronkowski or Kelce to someone like Jacob Tamme.

[.Buzz]

2 hours ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

Probably similar to the gap from an elite TE like Gronkowski or Kelce to someone like Jacob Tamme.

Not an Irv fan I assume?

Think this TE class is deeper than a Tamme level guy four guys down.

[Adrenaline_Flux]

2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Not an Irv fan I assume?

Think this TE class is deeper than a Tamme level guy four guys down.

Uhh, who is the third TE that you have ahead of Irv?

[.Buzz]

2 hours ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

Uhh, who is the third TE that you have ahead of Irv?

More so mean the guy should be there/within reach in round 2 I'd imagine.

Definitely think Knox and Moreau have legit chances to be something worthwhile, and there's plenty of other interesting names like Warring, Sternberger, and Oliver (I like Oliver).

[Adrenaline_Flux]

59 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

More so mean the guy should be there/within reach in round 2 I'd imagine.

Definitely think Knox and Moreau have legit chances to be something worthwhile, and there's plenty of other interesting names like Warring, Sternberger, and Oliver (I like Oliver).

I like those players too. You're still taking a much larger gamble with any of them though.

[.Buzz]

49 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

I like those players too. You're still taking a much larger gamble with any of them though.

Oh 100 percent.

I'm just saying I like the TE class. Obviously Hock is in a different class though.

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Oh 100 percent.

I'm just saying I like the TE class. Obviously Hock is in a different class though.

Yeah.  Hockenson really is in a class of his own.

Normally i'd recoil hard at the idea of a TE at 7, but rarely do you have a confluence of need, with a guy who has that sort of Kelce/Olsen/etc. upside as immediately Foles favourite target and that level of polish and projectable ability to contribute to the run game as well.

 

After Hockenson, i think Fant is a 1st round TE on upside but obviously a lot less well-rounded.  After that though, assuming Fant is gone at our 2nd, if not Hockenson at 7, i'm probably not going TE until the 3rd round where i can see what shakes out with guys like Knox, Sternberger, and even the other Smith, Kaden is kinda right there with Irv for me.  Even assuming Irv goes late 1/early 2...i'm happy coming away with a TE i like just as much or more at the top of 3.

Like @Adrenaline_Flux said though, it's a hugely different level of "risk" attached to those guys.  And probably not near as "plug 'n play" immediately.

 

More and more, i just think Hockenson is the way to go.  You knock out that glaring need with a stud, elite prospect at his position early.  I think the other critical area RT will see at least somebody decent fall to our 2nd, maybe even 3rd.

[Speedyg]

are we repeating our Blake mistake with Foles or is he good enough to take the risk? 

What I mean is that we are surrendering position value of a top 7 pick because it's we are worried our $20M+ QB won't succeed without a good TE?

I like Hock and agree he's on another level, but if a premium rusher is there I think we have to take that player. 

I'm starting to think that TE success are very much a factor of their QBs and the offense their run.

Rodgers and Wilson are just as good if not better than Brees, but Graham did nothing with them. Both QBs have rarely produced top seasons from their TEs (if ever, can't recall early years of Rodgers who he had. But I know Favre for sure used the TE).

Howard is on another from his draft, but while he's shown flashes, he hasn't really lived up to that lofty status and the less talented guy like Engram who went to the Giants and Eli.

George Kittle went to 49ers as a raw athletic guy (similar to Knox), and we've seen Shanahan use TEs in Atlanta (even in WAS i believe).

We also just saw how even a good QB like Stafford can under utilize a guy at TE but he goes to Colts and Luck and suddenly looks like a Pro Bowler.

I feel like while the lower tier guys may not be as good as Hock, Nick will still get them productive (if they have the ability and potential) because he looks for them.

 

 

[.Buzz]

4 hours ago, Speedyg said:

are we repeating our Blake mistake with Foles or is he good enough to take the risk? 

What I mean is that we are surrendering position value of a top 7 pick because it's we are worried our $20M+ QB won't succeed without a good TE?

I like Hock and agree he's on another level, but if a premium rusher is there I think we have to take that player. 

I'm starting to think that TE success are very much a factor of their QBs and the offense their run.

Rodgers and Wilson are just as good if not better than Brees, but Graham did nothing with them. Both QBs have rarely produced top seasons from their TEs (if ever, can't recall early years of Rodgers who he had. But I know Favre for sure used the TE).

Howard is on another from his draft, but while he's shown flashes, he hasn't really lived up to that lofty status and the less talented guy like Engram who went to the Giants and Eli.

George Kittle went to 49ers as a raw athletic guy (similar to Knox), and we've seen Shanahan use TEs in Atlanta (even in WAS i believe).

We also just saw how even a good QB like Stafford can under utilize a guy at TE but he goes to Colts and Luck and suddenly looks like a Pro Bowler.

I feel like while the lower tier guys may not be as good as Hock, Nick will still get them productive (if they have the ability and potential) because he looks for them.

 

 

Hock is an elite talent though. I'd maybe understand where you were coming from if the position of less value was also a talent that isn't premium, but...

Obviously pass rushers are near the top as far as what you want to have, but when there's a guy like Hock who could really change the landscape of our offense and give Foles (or any QB down the line really) a high end weapon who also will help in the run game it definitely would be good value.

I'm team edge/Oliver, but Hockenson is right up there for me. It sounds like OL is heavily likely as well, what are your thoughts regarding that? 

I'm with you on the other TEs being able to potentially be serious weapons as well, but they likely have a longer wait period as far as becoming a legit weapon whereas I don't think Hock will have that wait period. We signed Foles because we want a quick turnaround and he can provide that, but he also needs guys to work with and it's fairly lacking (although Blake had his part in it, we'll see this year just how big of hand he did have), especially at the TE spot.

[DuvalsKing]

On 4/20/2019 at 1:42 AM, Tugboat said:

A RT is also very much a "luxury pick" at 7.  And even a pass rusher, when you look at a team that has both Yan and Calais, for the time being at least.

 

I don’t know how you consider pass rush a luxury pick for a team while although they’ll have Campbell and Yann. Campbell more than likely won’t be back next year. Has anyone forecasted the available quality of edge rushers for next yr I’m willing to bet it’s not going to be as good as this year. 

If Campbell or Yann is injured for an extended period of time who are you running out there Smoot? As a coach would you rather scheme a game plan with minimal use rate for TE position? Or scheme a game plan where you’re running Smoot and Yann at DE? I’ve seen this team play 24 yrs with out a stud TE, and I’ve seen this team with piss poor play at DE too. And I’d say we’ve looked our worst when you’re consistently running proverbially bums out at defensive end.  🤨 You feel comfortable with Smoot and McCray as one of your primary pass rushers next season because I’m not. Plus what’s the most important position on the field besides QB? Is it TE or DE? 

Am I pleased with the TE position as currently constructed? No, I can’t even recall when I’ve been happy with the production of the position with this team. But I’m not hell bent on fixing the position where I’d reach for a TE in the first 7 picks in an extremely talented pool of TEs. 

This is a draft that has really no wiggle room for mistakes for this FO. If they swing and miss with this 7 overall pick it could have this front office on city streets by the end of December.

 

I like Hock i’ve been intrigued to wonder what effect he will have in the run and passing game for this team but I just don’t see a conservative figure like Coughlin even doing it with how this team is constructed and forecasting future drafts and possible loss of free agents for this team.