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Top 10 4-3 DT/3-4 DE & NT

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MrOaktown_56

MrOaktown_56

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, EliteTexan80 said:

...what? Dude lined up as a 5 tech, 3 tech on nickel packages, over the C on big packages... JD Clowney and Whitney Mercilius play those outside edges, Watt roved around all along the DL. 

Watt, his 2nd season. 

Could be the case, but the man we remember was a unicorn. We're not going to see this again, UNLESS Clowney develops to his athleticism.

2

Now you're going full homer. I don't think Clowney's upside is higher than the top tier edge rushers right now and I don't think there's anything to substantiate that except blind homerism.

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El Ramster

El Ramster

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Now you're going full homer. I don't think Clowney's upside is higher than the top tier edge rushers right now and I don't think there's anything to substantiate that except blind homerism.

Yeah no way even if he reaches his potential!!

he isn’t above Mack or von Miller

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Soko

Soko

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Yes, Clowney. The guy who has led the league in TFLs the last two years...

Spouts all that nonsense, realizes said nonsense, and then comes back with “LOL Clowney”. Classic! 

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ET80

ET80

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, El ramster said:

Yeah bro. Your knees have a better shot of being 100% than that. 

Last time we got into this kind of argument, you were trying to convince me that Mario Williams was better than JJ Watt, so your opinions on such matters really means nothing to me. Hell, your opinion on ANY matter means nothing to me.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14479225#14479225

(I hope you appreciate the effort I put in to remind you how bad your opinion is on these sort of matters. That wasn't easy to find, but absolutely worth it).

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Now you're going full homer. I don't think Clowney's upside is higher than the top tier edge rushers right now and I don't think there's anything to substantiate that except blind homerism.

We're talking about a guy who put up a 4.53, a 37 inch vert at 6' 5" 266. Athleticism and pure explosion have never been the question with Clowney. 

Now, do I think he'll reach that potential? Probably not - in fact, I'd nearly be assured he won't reach that spot. However, in the context of THIS discussion (where we're debating on whether or not someone reaches the same heights as Watt did in his prime) you'd probably look for the Planet Guys, guys who have incredible H/W/S figures. Not good figures, not GREAT figures, but INCREDIBLE figures.

For all of his flaws, Clowney has those.

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El Ramster

El Ramster

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Last time we got into this kind of argument, you were trying to convince me that Mario Williams was better than JJ Watt, so your opinions on such matters really means nothing to me. Hell, your opinion on ANY matter means nothing to me.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14479225#14479225

(I hope you appreciate the effort I put in to remind you how bad your opinion is on these sort of matters. That wasn't easy to find, but absolutely worth it).

We're talking about a guy who put up a 4.53, a 37 inch vert at 6' 5" 266. Athleticism and pure explosion have never been the question with Clowney. 

Now, do I think he'll reach that potential? Probably not - in fact, I'd nearly be assured he won't reach that spot. However, in the context of THIS discussion (where we're debating on whether or not someone reaches the same heights as Watt did in his prime) you'd probably look for the Planet Guys, guys who have incredible H/W/S figures. Not good figures, not GREAT figures, but INCREDIBLE figures.

For all of his flaws, Clowney has those.

Was that pre draft or after? Every Houston fan in here hated that watt pick and those are facts. Pretty sure I can find a post in your history that would make people throw up. What does digging thru an old post mean? Specially wten I joined I was a kid lol

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MrOaktown_56

MrOaktown_56

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Last time we got into this kind of argument, you were trying to convince me that Mario Williams was better than JJ Watt, so your opinions on such matters really means nothing to me. Hell, your opinion on ANY matter means nothing to me.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14479225#14479225

(I hope you appreciate the effort I put in to remind you how bad your opinion is on these sort of matters. That wasn't easy to find, but absolutely worth it).

We're talking about a guy who put up a 4.53, a 37 inch vert at 6' 5" 266. Athleticism and pure explosion have never been the question with Clowney. 

Now, do I think he'll reach that potential? Probably not - in fact, I'd nearly be assured he won't reach that spot. However, in the context of THIS discussion (where we're debating on whether or not someone reaches the same heights as Watt did in his prime) you'd probably look for the Planet Guys, guys who have incredible H/W/S figures. Not good figures, not GREAT figures, but INCREDIBLE figures.

For all of his flaws, Clowney has those.

3

And Mack ran in the 4.5's at his pro day (electric from a source I need to find) with a 40 inch vertical at 250+ pounds. He also had a better short shuttle and 3 cone than Clowney. You're looking purely at physical traits, which isn't everything for a pass rusher. At 250 pounds, Von also beat Clowney in almost every drill. Yes length matters, but you're acting like his numbers are astronomically better than other rushers at the top of the league. They're not. H/W/S is not as important as change of direction and explosiveness for a rusher. A 40+ in vert is elite. A 6.70 3 cone time, which Von had, is also elite. 

Clowney does not have Mack's raw power, or Von's getoff. He's also not as polished as either as a rusher. Both Mack and Von also have ELITE testing numbers but what separates them is more of football skills as a rusher. Having an arsenal of moves. Knowing when to use them. Being able to consistently dominate when double teamed or given extra attention. I highly doubt Clowney has commanded the same degree of blocking attention those guys have on a consistent basis.

To say he has Watt-like upside based on purely H/W/S numbers is wishful thinking at best.

PJ Hall ran in the 4.7's and jumped 35+ inches for us at 300 pounds while putting up 40+ on the bench. Does that mean his upside is higher than Maurice Hurst's, who we also drafted, who definitely doesn't have the raw numbers that Hall put up? Hell no.

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Hunter2_1

Hunter2_1

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, El ramster said:

zCNJEwT.jpg

That boy good 

Where's that from? They gave him a 107.5 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pffs-top-101-of-2014-no-1-j-j-watt

 

"Watt is completely redefining what we thought was possible at the position"

"When Watt came along he didn’t just eclipse the average season-total grade for Justin Smith, he blew it out of the water like he was dropping depth charges on a dinghy. Justin Smith would put together a season with a PFF grade in the 30s, but Watt in 2012 broke out with a grade in the 90s (+94.2). The truly terrifying part is that grade has improved each year since, moving to +99.8, then +107.5 and shows no sign of regressing back to the norm of the human race."

 

" His numbers across the board are ludicrous, posting more combined hits and sacks than Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Calais Campbell and Fletcher Cox combined, for example, and he remains the best player in football, and the top player on the PFF Top 101. "

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El Ramster

El Ramster

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Where's that from? They gave him a 107.5 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pffs-top-101-of-2014-no-1-j-j-watt

 

"Watt is completely redefining what we thought was possible at the position"

"When Watt came along he didn’t just eclipse the average season-total grade for Justin Smith, he blew it out of the water like he was dropping depth charges on a dinghy. Justin Smith would put together a season with a PFF grade in the 30s, but Watt in 2012 broke out with a grade in the 90s (+94.2). The truly terrifying part is that grade has improved each year since, moving to +99.8, then +107.5 and shows no sign of regressing back to the norm of the human race."

 

" His numbers across the board are ludicrous, posting more combined hits and sacks than Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Calais Campbell and Fletcher Cox combined, for example, and he remains the best player in football, and the top player on the PFF Top 101. "

Nope.

 

 

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Jakuvious

Jakuvious

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Where's that from? They gave him a 107.5 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pffs-top-101-of-2014-no-1-j-j-watt

 

"Watt is completely redefining what we thought was possible at the position"

"When Watt came along he didn’t just eclipse the average season-total grade for Justin Smith, he blew it out of the water like he was dropping depth charges on a dinghy. Justin Smith would put together a season with a PFF grade in the 30s, but Watt in 2012 broke out with a grade in the 90s (+94.2). The truly terrifying part is that grade has improved each year since, moving to +99.8, then +107.5 and shows no sign of regressing back to the norm of the human race."

 

" His numbers across the board are ludicrous, posting more combined hits and sacks than Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Calais Campbell and Fletcher Cox combined, for example, and he remains the best player in football, and the top player on the PFF Top 101. "

PFF has changed how they scale grades since 2014. Its no longer possible in their grading system to top 100.0, so the grade's in the image you quoted are presumably what they scaled his grades down to in those years when they changed how they present the grades.

Though, like all things PFF, there's at least a little bit of non-sense in that process. Watt graded higher in raw grade in 2014 than 2013, but his scaled grade in 2014 wound up worse than 2013, because reasons.

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