My 10 Most Overrated Players in NFL history

[EaglesPeteC]

Aaaaaaand we're just going to gloss over this gem of a line?.......

"Vince Young

2 Pro Bowls for one of the very worst QBs in the NFL. He sucked in both of those years. A black quarterback on a winning team = Pro Bowl."

[titans0021]

2 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

You see it all the time. Usually from black fans (for obvious reasons).

For the record, we don't discuss race on this forum, so probably stop trying to repeatedly go down that rabbit hole.

4 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

The QBs who put up big numbers put them up regardless of who the coach is and who the supporting cast members are.

Do they? How many quarterbacks put up big numbers in run-heavy offenses?

11 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

I mean the year he didn't even rank in the top 10 in passing yards and was tied for 7th in passing touchdowns.

Name a worse "MVP" year than that. 

And "he" didn't go 10-4. The team did. 

Well, at least we got confirmation that the opinion is entirely based on bulk stats. Y/A, Y/C, Rating, TD%, INT%, and YPG (where he ranked eighth) all wiped out because he attempted 166 fewer passes than Peyton.

[NFLExpert49]

1 minute ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Aaaaaaand we're just going to gloss over this gem of a line?.......

"Vince Young

2 Pro Bowls for one of the very worst QBs in the NFL. He sucked in both of those years. A black quarterback on a winning team = Pro Bowl."

Are you going to deny that's how it works? Because there's substantial evidence that it does. 

[EaglesPeteC]

12 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Are you going to deny that's how it works? Because there's substantial evidence that it does. 

Yes...yes I am. Because that statement is absurd.

[titans0021]

Just now, NFLExpert49 said:

Are you going to deny that's how it works? Because there's substantial evidence that it does. 

We're going to want to drop this line of discussion. It's one of the first rules of the site. You can find them here if you'd like to take a look.

[NFLExpert49]

"Do they? How many quarterbacks put up big numbers in run-heavy offenses?"

How many legitimately elite quarterbacks play in run-heavy offenses? 

"Well, at least we got confirmation that the opinion is entirely based on bulk stats. Y/A, Y/C, Rating, TD%, INT%, and YPG (where he ranked eighth) all wiped out because he attempted 166 fewer passes than Peyton."

The fact is, it demonstrates the mindset of overrating him, because another quarterback with a different skin color would never have won MVP with those kinds of numbers.

 

 

[NFLExpert49]

1 minute ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Yes...yes I am. Because that statement is absurd.

So Kordell Stewart and Vince Young made Pro Bowls because of how uber-awesome they were? 

[patriotsheatyan]

I give the OP credit, he swung for the fences and went after hard targets that are highly rated.

[titans0021]

Just now, NFLExpert49 said:

So Kordell Stewart and Vince Young made Pro Bowls because of how uber-awesome they were? 

And this will be my last unofficial warning before we move to official ones.

[EaglesPeteC]

14 minutes ago, patriotsheatyan said:

I give the OP credit, he swung for the fences and went after hard targets that are highly rated.

That was the nicest way to describe this thread.....

[Duluther]

12 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Are you going to deny that's how it works? Because there's substantial evidence that it does. 

Honestly, it was more of being a beloved Longhorns QB on a winning team. 

[Elky]

1 hour ago, NFLExpert49 said:

10. Steve McNair

He was not a great quarterback. He was only OK. Folks, the soft bigotry of low expectations for black quarterbacks isn’t going to help you get what you really want, and that’s a legitimately great black quarterback. McNair winning an MVP for the season he did was basically a joke. To be a truly great quarterback, you have to actually be a GREAT PASSER. Can you honestly say that McNair was a GREAT PASSER? That he was even half the passer of a Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees? Not only that, but ironically, Steve “air” McNair’s deep ball sucked. He actually had marginal arm strength. He was a short range passer whose completion percentages were in the low 60s. That’s not great. That’s just OK. The Titans looked more dangerous on offense during the stretch where Billy Volek took over in 2004. 

 

9. Torry Holt

Product of Mike Martz’s system. Worst runner after the catch you’ll ever see. It’s like he wanted to NOT get any yards after he caught it. He could catch it in wide open space and he’d start jogging laterally and looking for a place to slide or a way to get out of bounds. Lacked speed. Not much of a deep threat (don’t be fooled by the yards/catch averages his first 3 years; he was getting big plays off blown coverages thanks to Martz’s system bamboozling defenses). HIs route running was overrated. He almost never beat a quality #1 corner one-on-one in his entire career; he would come alive only when he went against guys who weren’t even starting-caliber. Respectable corners would frequently be draped all over him when he had to run an actual pattern and the ball came his way. I will give him credit where it’s due, however: He did have great hands. But he was not a Hall of Fame caliber player. He was not in Isaac Bruce’s class. I don’t care what the numbers say. When you watch Bruce on film, he was electric as a route runner. One-on-one, he would break down the corner and get open. Holt was not Bruce, but people assumed he was similar by association. 

 

8. Lance Alworth

Alworth had all of his success pre-merger. The AFL not only had the inferior talent in those days, but it was a passing-inflated league. Alworth being the best receiver in a passing-inflated second rate league does not mean he was a Top 10 all-time receiver. His hype comes mainly from the stat nerds, rather than anyone having actually seen him play. 

 

7. Terrell Davis

It’s en vogue to talk about how Emmitt Smith was overrated because of the blocking he ran behind, but for some reason, the same people who say that never talk about how overrated Davis is, when he ran behind the most running back-friendly blocking in NFL history. It never occurs to people to take another look at Davis when he was a 6th round pick, despite playing for Georgia, and Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis, Tatum Bell, Mike Bell, Reuben Droughns, and later Alfred Morris in Washington had all that success in the same blocking scheme for the same head coach. But if they took another look, they would see that Davis’s 4 year stretch of numbers came from hitting designed cutback lanes created by Alex Gibbs’s zone blocking scheme…just as they did for all the backs who succeeded after him. They will see that he rarely broke a tackle or made anyone miss, which are what defines how talented a running back is in the first place. Following the blocking is the first part of the job, but every running back is able to do that (although a handful of guys won’t do it). But after they hit the hole, it’s what they do when there ARE defenders in position to tackle them that matters. And Davis was not exceptional in that area. There are so many better running backs who had a few really good years who aren’t in the Hall of Fame, yet he is. And if you want to discuss his postseason success as somehow being the deciding factor (while ignoring the fact he was a lesser talent)…Davis had all his postseason success with the threat of John Elway at quarterback. That’s quite a bit different from playing playoff games with Jerious Jackson or Jake Plummer. 

 

6. Michael Vick

I’m sorry, but no amount of “exciting running” makes up for being an abysmal passer. And that’s exactly what Vick was. Vick almost single-handedly ruined Roddy White’s career before White got lucky that Vick got caught electrocuting dogs. The guy couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with a cannon, and he was dumber than a lobotomized squirrel. Oh sure, he had one passable year playing under Andy Reid. Andy Reid could make your grandmother look passable as a quarterback. He went on a winning streak with Koy freak’n Detmer. Michael Vick was a bust and should be remembered as a bust. He was a #1 overall pick who sucked. He was a bottom 10 starting QB every year that he started but one. Instead, because of his race and “exciting” running ability, he’s remembered as though he was really good. 

 

5. Charles Woodson

Woodson was a good ball hawk, a good hitter, and a good blitzer. He was not a good man cover guy. He was no better than your average corner there. If you want to find a lot of overrated players, look for the supposed “shutdown corners.” In particular, look for the guys who came out with tons of hype for being able to return punts and potentially play on offense. Those guys are basically guaranteed to be hyped as top corners, regardless of their actual performance. Some of them are legitimately great corners, but even the guys who are legitimate are way more human than the media acknowledges. As far as I’m concerned, there have only been two genuine shutdown corners since the Mel Blount rule was instituted: Darelle Revis in 2009-2011, and Louis Wright. Woodson will head to the Hall of Fame first ballot despite having been regularly burned by second rate receivers. 

 

4. Don Hutson

I don’t know whether Hutson was great or not. And neither do you. Because none of us ever saw him play. But that’s not the only reason. You see, Hutson is a favorite of stat nerds and people trying to be sports hipsters, because of his “black ink.” But here’s what nobody seems to realize: Hutson played in an all-white league. All he was was the best white receiver of his era. And I’m sorry, but in general, blacks are just better at most of the attributes that make a great wide receiver than whites. I’m a white guy, I can admit that. Just like whites are the better quarterbacks. This isn’t even like baseball, where a large enough percentage of the greatest players have always been white to where you can say, “well, Babe Ruth was still great.” Hutson leading a 10-team league of white receivers in categories numerous times is not comparable with the best receivers from later on. Steve Largent proved himself against the best in the world. Hutson did not. Trying to claim Hutson was greater than Jerry Rice, or the second greatest after Jerry Rice, is outrageous. And many people do. It’s utterly laughable. 

 

3. Joe Montana

Joe Montana was a good quarterback. He was mobile and he threw with a soft touch. But the combination of his cool name, “Joe Montana,” his cleft chin and dreamy blue eyes, and a couple of game winning drives in the postseason have established him as one of the most famous athletes in the history of sports, and it’s an utter joke. No, he was not “hands down the greatest quarterback of all-time.” No, he’s not even in the discussion for greatest quarterback of all-time. He completed an inordinate number of easy checkdowns and outlet throws that any number of quarterbacks could have completed. His “accuracy” was little more than a function of the system he was in; a system that was designed to mask HIS weaknesses. More on that in a moment. Oh, but you thought it was a coincidence that the quarterbacks who completed the most passes to running backs had the highest completion percentages? We don’t tell a 9-year-old who is able to complete a 5-yard pass to his dad in the back yard that he should be playing in the NFL, but we’re going to act like a pass to an uncovered back in the flats is something impressive for an NFL quarterback? It’s ridiculous. As Bill Parcells said after sincerely telling reporters that HE could have thrown some of Romo’s 5 touchdown passes on Thanksgiving against the Bucs in 2006, “put the anointing oil away.” Now, back to the part about the scheme being designed to mask his weaknesses. You see, the idea of the “West Coast Offense” (referring to Walsh’s offense, not Sid Gillman’s) being a “short passing game” came from Walsh scheming to fit Montana’s strengths (and previously, Ken Anderson’s) and hide his weaknesses. Walsh didn’t sit down one day and develop a system. He was just borrowing concepts from every coach who came before him and trying to get the most he could out of his talent. He WANTED to throw deep. He always wanted to come up with new things to add to his offense. He tried a little bit of shotgun in either 1986 or 1987, which people forget about. He tried lining Freddie Solomon up at QB and running the option. He tried signing track star Renaldo Nehemiah to add a deep threat. He had deep threat Eddie Brown rated as the top receiver on his draft board the year he took Jerry Rice. He dubbed Jerry Rice, “John Jefferson with speed.” He had Montana taking 2-4 deep shots to Solomon per game, and Solomon was constantly burning guys deep (he had RARE speed…was a converted running quarterback who was dubbed the best player in college football playing for the tiny University of Tampa, whose football program literally shut down after he departed…he actually got Heisman consideration), only for Montana to be inconsistent with the deep ball. Montana actually received criticism for his struggles with going deep. Oh, and Walsh coached one of the game’s ultimate deep receivers - James Lofton - while he was head coach at Stanford. Walsh wanted to be able to go deep, but Montana was limited, so Walsh rolled with what he had. And then he traded for Steve Young and quarterback controversy ensued until Walsh’s retirement. And that was when Montana had only won 2 of his 4 rings. Yet people act like Montana is the Michael Jordan of football. Jordan won 10 scoring titles and was clearly the best player in the NBA all 10 of those years. Montana was a guy who executed the system that was drawn up for him as he was told. He didn’t try to do too much. And he was the quarterback of some of the most stacked teams in NFL history; teams that were elite on both sides of the ball. There is no reason to rate Montana above Terry Bradshaw, who won the same number of rings. Absolutely none. The knock on Montana is that some of those dumpoffs he completed were on plays where he could have taken a shot down the field. Sometimes somebody was open for a bigger play and he passed it up. And sometimes they weren’t. But a great quarterback would throw somebody open. You have to find that balance in risk/reward to truly reach your potential on offense, and Montana was a step below that based on being too far on the conservative side. 

 

2. Wes Welker

Let’s start off with something that has been pissing me off for a long time now: The misuse of the term, “slot receiver.” There is no such position as “slot receiver.” The position is "wide receiver." The slot is just one place where a wide receiver can line up. And most receivers will line up at all the receiver spots - flanker, split end, and in the slot. When people say Wes Welker is a “slot receiver,” what they mean is he ONLY plays the slot. And the reason he only played the slot was he wasn’t talented enough to do anything else. No, he wasn’t “the ideal slot receiver.” No, Danny Amendola, Trent Taylor, and other journeyman-caliber receivers aren’t “ideal slot receivers.” THEY’RE ideally in the slot, because they would be utterly incompetent anywhere else. The ideal slot receivers are/were Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham Jr, A.J. Green, Steve Smith, Sterling Sharpe, Michael Irvin, and every other legitimately great wide receiver. All of those receivers played in the slot on numerous occasions…as well as everywhere else. Moreover, “slot receiver” does not mean, “a quick little guy who runs dinky short patterns.” That’s what the PATRIOTS did/do with their slots, but there is no rule that that’s what the slot receiver does. For instance, Brett Favre threw two deep touchdown passes - to Antonio Freeman and Andre Rison - in the Packers’ Super Bowl win over New England in 1997 when they were lined up in the slot. So this little turd was not a “great slot receiver.” Not even close. He was a journeyman-caliber #3 receiver whom the Patriots featured because that’s the way their system works. Just like Troy Brown before him and Julian Edelman after him. He caught a bazillion bubble screens that literally any receiver in the NFL could catch. He ran drag routes against linebackers. He ran option routes out of the spread. Literally any receiver in the league could catch 100+ passes in a season playing that role in New England’s offense, provided they stay healthy. People need to learn that a reception in and of itself is worthless. Yards and touchdowns are what matters. And Welker was getting freebee underneath yards and not a lot of touchdowns. There’s a reason he attracted so little interest on the open market when he was a free agent following his last season in New England; NFL GMs and scouts agreed with me. He was slower than sap flowing uphill on a winter’s eve (might have been the only receiver of the last 20 years to legitimately not run better than 4.75 in the 40). He had the worst vertical of any receiver I have ever seen. He was 5’8,” and if the ball was thrown 6 inches over his standing reach, he couldn’t get it. Oh, and he was a non-threat after the catch. He could run behind a convoy of blockers for 7 yards and go out of bounds, but so could you and I. He could head forward after being left wide open underneath and then go down to the first guy who got to him, but so could you and I. The only thing he had going for him was good quickness out of his breaks, but if you want to find that, just look for every single receiver who is under 6 feet and runs worse than a 4.4 who made it to the NFL. 

 

1. Franco Harris

I feel bad writing this because he seems like a sweet man. But Franco Harris was not a top 500 running back in NFL history. Not in performance he wasn’t. Try watching him some time. This is the least powerful running back to ever get a significant number of carries in the NFL. The newspapers of the time referred to it as “unlike Jim Brown, he went out of bounds.” No. More like, he went down as soon as someone so much as touched him. A scrawny nickel or dime back clips his legs? Down he goes. Every person on this forum could tackle Franco Harris. That is not hyperbole. I’m not joking. If you managed to make any more contact with him than a slight nudge, he would go down. He was the least determined runner I have ever watched, and I watched TONS of him. Your run-of-the-mill change of pace back did more to get extra yards than he did. You could find more broken tackles from just about anyone with 100 or more career carries than you could find from Harris in his entire career. All he did was hit the designed hole, get what was there, and go down to the first guy who touched him. Somebody who watched the Steelers’ first Super Bowl win against the Vikings might go, “wait a minute, I remember Paul Krause bouncing off him in that Super Bowl on one play!” No, watch the play again. Paul Krause bumped into him and literally did not even make a move to try to tackle him. That’s because Paul Krause may have been the worst tackler to ever play professional football. Ask Vikings fans. You will hear descriptions such as, “made Deion Sanders look like Jack Tatum.” Krause is the NFL’s all-time leader in interceptions, and he had to wait until his eligibility was nearly used up to get into the Hall of Fame. But back to Harris. He wasn’t even the feature rusher at Penn State. That was Lydell Mitchell. The reason Harris was taken so high in the draft is he had what was considered to be “good speed for his size” FOR THAT ERA. But what did that mean? Well, it meant 4.7. This would be like a 250 pound running back running a 4.55 today. You wouldn’t think speed was that guy’s strength, but rather, “and he runs well for such a big back.” But you would be expecting big-time power as his main asset. With Harris, you got far less power than you would even get from a 170-pound scat back. The late Dave Duerson described hitting Harris as, “he was soft like a sponge.” But back to the speed thing. If anything about Harris could be called a strength, aside from maybe having decent hands, it was that. But Harris had just 5 touchdowns in his career of 40+ yards, and only 11 of 20+. That is atrocious for a guy who had his number of touches. So no, he didn’t have good breakaway speed. Franco Harris is a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and objectively speaking, he wouldn’t even be able to legitimately earn an NFL roster spot in any era. He was the worst running back on his own roster every single season with the Steelers (Sidney Thornton was the best they had during the 1970s). “But he gained a lot of rushing yards!” Yes, by hitting designed holes created by a roided up (literally, according to the late Steve Courson) Steelers offensive line. They were really good at executing cut blocks, too. People think the 49ers’ offensive lines were dirty when McKittrick coached them…the Steelers leg whipped all the time. Anyway, Harris didn’t do anything other than get what was there and nothing else. He seems like a Hall of Fame person but he was a terrible NFL running back. This is one reason I think the NFL Hall of Fame is a joke of a concept. Why should a guy be honored for being good at sports? It would be cruel to take a guy like Harris out, while leaving all kinds of scumbags in…but if we’re basing it on actual football ability and performance, that’s what you would have to do. 

 

(Dis) Honorable Mention:

Charlie Joiner

He was a decent receiver who stuck around long enough to become a product of Don Coryell’s offense and Dan Fouts’s passing talent. He was not Hall of Fame caliber. He didn’t really do anything exceptionally well. 

 

Hines Ward

Yes, Steelers fans, he was a good blocker. So what? Smiling dip**** psychopath was also a lame possession wide receiver with no explosiveness whatsoever. His receiving skills amounted to going in motion and catching a 7 yard pass underneath the coverage. And that would all be fine…OK, he’s a solid enough complimentary receiver type. But no, that’s not enough. Because it’s the Steelers, we have to hear talk about how he’s a potential HALL OF FAMER. He was part of two Super Bowl winning teams and he played for the beloved land of blue collar, therefore he belongs in Canton with the greatest to ever play.

 

Cam Newton

Excuse after excuse for the guy. He’s just not that good. His MVP year was a fluke, and even during that, it was more just great red zone play than anything else. He’s not a Top 10 quarterback. 

 

Ronde Barber

Outside the Tampa 2, he would struggle to start. Too small and too slow. 

 

Roy Williams (safety)

Terrible in coverage, overrated impact as a hitter. Horse collar tackles wound up costing his team in penalties. Worst starter on the 2007 Cowboys defense and made the Pro Bow anyway. 

 

Tommie Harris

Overrated in college, overrated in the pros. A finesse defensive lineman who had very little positive impact on games. And in the NFL, this was despite playing in the Tampa 2 defense where he was encouraged to shoot gaps. The hype carried him to where Bears fans figured he MUST BE good, especially during times where their defense as a whole was among the best (like Urlacher, Briggs, and the scheme weren’t enough to explain that). He wasn’t. Oklahoma fans who actually paid attention to the games and eschewed what the commentators told them to think about him knew this before he ever played a down in the NFL. He wasn’t a very strong run player at the point, he wasn’t anything special as a pass rusher. 

 

Mario Williams

Captain coverage sack. Not good against the run, no matter how many people claim otherwise. 

 

Vince Young

2 Pro Bowls for one of the very worst QBs in the NFL. He sucked in both of those years. A black quarterback on a winning team = Pro Bowl.

 

Roman Harper

2 Pro Bowls for a safety who was HORRID in coverage. I don’t care how good your hitting/run support is if you’re that much of a liability in coverage. 

 

Cory Schlesinger

This is a minor one, but I felt it was worth noting. He had a reputation for being a really good blocker. He wasn’t. He was a piss-poor lead blocker who couldn’t sustain his blocks to save his life. He was a liability who let his man clog up the hole. Honestly, I think people looked at his classic fullback “build” and assumed he would be a great lead blocker because of it.

Ok.

[winitall]

LaDainian Tomlinson.  He might get hurt.

 

This thread is already down a dark path, need to get the joke in before the lock.

[NFLExpert49]

I'm planning on a top 10 underrated players thread, but I thought I'd get the negative out of the way first (not to mention, the overrated list is much easier, since you don't have to sift through as many players). 

[TitanSlim]

As time passes and history slowly forgets him, I could argue Steve McNair is more underrated than overrated.

If any Titan is overrated, it's Eddie George, and that's my favorite player of all time.