MookieMonstah Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Bucs fans are stretching big time. You don't take a K in the 2nd round, you just don't. You certainly don't give up a 3rd and 4th to take a K in the 2nd round. The Saints got their K of the future in UDFA last year with Will Lutz, plenty of good K options in free agency every year. Absolutely no way to justify this horrific move by the Bucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, MookieMonster said: Bucs fans are stretching big time. You don't take a K in the 2nd round, you just don't. You certainly don't give up a 3rd and 4th to take a K in the 2nd round. The Saints got their K of the future in UDFA last year with Will Lutz, plenty of good K options in free agency every year. Absolutely no way to justify this horrific move by the Bucs. None of us have said picking Aguayo in the second round was a good idea. None of us have said using our third and fourth round picks to get into the second round to draft him was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, bucsfan333 said: None of us have said picking Aguayo in the second round was a good idea. None of us have said using our third and fourth round picks to get into the second round to draft him was a good idea. There were Bucs fans defending it when it happened though. Not that they were calling it a great move, but I remember a few talking about how important kickers were becoming due to the rule changes and that if he was as good as the Bucs thought he was, it was a good move. Kickers should rarely, if ever, be drafted at all IMO. 5th round would be the absolutely earliest I would ever consider a kicker, and I would have to strongly believe they were going to be the next Justin Tucker coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 You just said drafting him was 110% the right call. You took him in the 2nd round and that was apparently the right call, so I fail to see how you aren't saying that it was a good idea? Regardless, good Ks come out of every nook and cranny every year. Taking one that high can never be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, MookieMonster said: You just said drafting him was 110% the right call. You took him in the 2nd round and that was apparently the right call, so I fail to see how you aren't saying that it was a good idea? Regardless, good Ks come out of every nook and cranny every year. Taking one that high can never be justified. Yes. Drafting him was 110% the right move. We had just come off a season where we missed more kicks than any other team in the league. Aguayo was the most accurate kicker in college football history. It absolutely was the right move. But trading our third and fourth round picks to take him in the second wasn't the way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ok so you just worded it oddly. Yeah, drafting Aguayo in the 4th would've been fine IMO. What the Bucs gave up for him is what makes this such a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Kickers should rarely, if ever, be drafted at all IMO. 5th round would be the absolutely earliest I would ever consider a kicker, and I would have to strongly believe they were going to be the next Justin Tucker coming out. We drafted him expecting nothing less than (near) perfection. Why would you draft anybody if you didn't expect them to be good/great? The problem is he's not anywhere close to that. He's not even an average kicker. And we used two mid-round picks to trade up and take him early. So it makes it that much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So is he worse than Myers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: We drafted him expecting nothing less than (near) perfection. Why would you draft anybody if you didn't expect them to be good/great? The problem is he's not anywhere close to that. He's not even an average kicker. And we used two mid-round picks to trade up and take him early. So it makes it that much worse. For sure...but again, the point is, its never smart to draft a kicker that early. You always expect a player to be good, especially when you draft them in the 2nd round....but kickers in the NFL are very fickle in their consistency. There arent many who are consistently great or even good for 10+ years. Some will have a stretch of good seasons, then fade away. Some have 2 good years....then 2 bad ones....then go back to being good. Every draft pick has the potential to bust....but I dont think kickers are worth that risk....especially not that early in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, MookieMonster said: Ok so you just worded it oddly. Yeah, drafting Aguayo in the 4th would've been fine IMO. What the Bucs gave up for him is what makes this such a disaster. He was gonna go in the third, by all accounts. Licht thought he was gonna outsmart everyone and take him in the secomd. Kudos for getting his guy. But it wasn't the right move. If we'd taken him in the third, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It wouldn't have cost us our fourth to move up in that scenario. But it didn't happen that way. Live and learn. Licht's been phenomenal in the draft. He's allowed one booger, no matter how big and ugly it is. 2014 Mike Evans, Charles Sims, Kevin Pamphile 2015 Jameis Winston, Donovan Smith, Ali Marpet, Kwon Alexander 2016 Vernon Hargreaves III, Noah Spence, Ryan Smith, Caleb Benenoch, Devante Bond 2017 OJ Howard, Justin Evans, Chris Godwin, Kendell Beckwith, Jeremy McNichols, Stevie Tu'ikolovatu Evans, Pamphile, Winston, D Smith, Marpet, Alexander, VHIII, and Bond are all starters. Sims has been our primary third down back. Spence is our primary EDGE rusher in nickel packages. R Smith is our primary reserve CB on the outside. Benenoch is slated to be our swing tackle. Our entire '17 draft class looks like they're gonna make the final 53. Licht bombed (hard) on the Aguayo pick. But I have a hard time questioning his overall drafting acumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: So is he worse than Myers? The only kicker I know he's better than is Kyle Brindza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 It's possible for a team to have a fantastic overall draft and to make a horrible mistake with a pick. The 2 statements aren't contradictory. What could have been the best draft of the league instead becomes a top 10. It's no shame for teams or fans to acknowledge this. It's how the best orgs improve. If the Bucs drafted an OL like LeRaven Clark or Shon Coleman or Isaac Seumalo (all of whom are set to start this year for their team and all went in the next 10 picks after 74) Rd 3 and CJ Prosise Rd 4 (Dixon would have been another great pick can't forecast injuries, thus allowing them to beef up other spots this year than having to go RB this past year) and drafted Lutz Rd 6-7 instead of 1 of their last 2 guys then that would have been perhaps an all time great draft. Or go vet FA. Drafting Aguayo was a missed opp for value. Esp when K can go late or even go UDFA. Now there's no lock Tampa would have gone that way but the point remains they never got the chance to improve the team. Cutting Aguayo also means they aren't ever getting any more value. So saying the Bucs lost major value here can't be argued. Pointing to the rest of the draft doesn't change the fact drafting Aguayo Rd 2 by trading up with Rd 3-4 picks was a major fail. You can have the rest of the draft still be strong and call this a colossal mistake. This doesn't mean the org or GM are bad, the best orgs still can make huge mistakes. I say that rooting for a team who has a great GM that routinely finds amazing value late in drafts and generally hits on Rd 1 picks (Lynch worries us all though) but whose Day 2 record is a major weakness FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just makes me wonder if they didnt trade up for him would someone else have taken him late 2nd or early 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Like we took Alualu and everyone lost their mind but it sounded like someone else was going to do it 2-3 picks later or the reverse of Houston having 2 cards on draft day: 1 said Clowney and the other Bortles i bet someone else would have taken Aguayo really early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 At least one other team was targeting Aguayo in the third. We effectively gave up a 3rd for him. I didn't like the pick at the time given the fact it was a second rounder, but I can live with the mistake, given that it was an aggressive move to try to fix a huge hole in our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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