Darbsk Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, oakdb36 said: So what are you supposed to do when you rebuild? Not sign anybody? We're doing exactly what we did when RM came in. Sign the players we can afford to try to improve the team for the 2018 season. Don't you remember Tuck, Woodson, Woodley, Flynn, Schaub...? You need stopgaps when your roster is weak. You usually stock pile draft picks not brazenly throw a 3rd away on a high risk, long shot WR or nonchalantly give a couple to move up and pick a punter?!?!?!?! I'd have expected even more (cheap) veteran stop gaps exactly as you suggest above, not guys like Jordy Nelson, Whitehead and possibly keeping a guy like EJ Manuel as a cheap backup instead of using valuable draft capital. Has anyone from the front office mentioned the dreaded words 'rebuild', I don't recall anyone saying that..............not that they usually do? Where has this mantra come from with regard the 'rebuild' or is it just a smoke and mirrors to try and obfuscate the Mack trade fiasco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Darbsk said: You usually stock pile draft picks not brazenly throw a 3rd away on a high risk, long shot WR or nonchalantly give a couple to move up and pick a punter?!?!?!?! I'd have expected even more (cheap) veteran stop gaps exactly as you suggest above, not guys like Jordy Nelson, Whitehead and possibly keeping a guy like EJ Manuel as a cheap backup instead of using valuable draft capital. Has anyone from the front office mentioned the dreaded words 'rebuild', I don't recall anyone saying that..............not that they usually do? Where has this mantra come from with regard the 'rebuild' or is it just a smoke and mirrors to try and obfuscate the Mack trade fiasco? I think it's a copout for the Mack trade honestly. As ive heard before i dont see it as a rebuild as more a retooling. Schemes changed on both sides so there's a shuffling of the roster to fit the new system is all. Before the Mack trade, we had pieces on defense. Mack, Jelly, our d-line draft picks, Whitehead, and Conley all looked like potential longterm pieces. And obvi on offense our entire offensive line pretty much, Cook, Cooper, Lynch, and Carr. I didnt think we needed a rebuild at all, just add some more talent but the building blocks were there in alot of places if the coaching could develop and utilize it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, oakdb36 said: So what are you supposed to do when you rebuild? Not sign anybody? We're doing exactly what we did when RM came in. Sign the players we can afford to try to improve the team for the 2018 season. Don't you remember Tuck, Woodson, Woodley, Flynn, Schaub...? You need stopgaps when your roster is weak. We've been rebuilding for 5 years, now we're starting fresh. If we're going to rebuild we should at least play our young players and see what we potentially have going forward. Instead we're playing guys like Frostee Rucker, Reggie Nelson, and Leon Hall and still getting blown out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We've been rebuilding for 5 years, now we're starting fresh. If we're going to rebuild we should at least play our young players and see what we potentially have going forward. Instead we're playing guys like Frostee Rucker, Reggie Nelson, and Leon Hall and still getting blown out. We are playing alot of our young talent tho. Carr, Richard, Coop, Miller, our D-line draft picks, Lee, Conley, etc...KoJo is about the only one who didnt get playing time last week and we kinda already know what we have in him from the past couple years. And theyve already stated we'll see him get more snaps going forward. I'm all for rebuilding but that doesnt mean we need to be playing 6th/7th rounders. It's not just about rebuilding, it's about building the players who're gonna be here into the system that's here to stay for the longterm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Actually Leon Hall was pretty good. Rucker is more versatile than the young DEs since he can go inside. Which is useful when 2 of your DTs get hurt. They did still give Hurst DE reps though, which was odd. I do think Nelson needs to be a rotational guy at best though. Clearly can't hack it as a starter anymore. See what lumps Joseph has to take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Just now, Silver&Black88 said: I do think Nelson needs to be a rotational guy at best though. Clearly can't hack it as a starter anymore. See what lumps Joseph has to take Gunther and Gruden both defended their decision to play him all game despite the fact he was getting toasted faster than Martavius Bryant's joint on a Saturday afternoon. He had a 48.3 overall grade which was 72nd out of 80 qualifying safeties and Gunther said, "I don't think Reggie stuck out more than any other guy on Monday night." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Gunther and Gruden both defended their decision to play him all game despite the fact he was getting toasted faster than Martavius Bryant's joint on a Saturday afternoon. He had a 48.3 overall grade which was 72nd out of 80 qualifying safeties and Gunther said, "I don't think Reggie stuck out more than any other guy on Monday night." Lololol wow my bad must’ve been drunk seeing things then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: Actually Leon Hall was pretty good. Rucker is more versatile than the young DEs since he can go inside. Which is useful when 2 of your DTs get hurt. They did still give Hurst DE reps though, which was odd. And yet we still lost by 20 points. Playing our young guys instead of them wouldn't have made a difference so why roll with old guys that won't be here next year? Play the young guys, see what you got, and try to build on that going forward. I still have no idea why we cut Calhoun and kept Rucker on the roster, it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 9 hours ago, NYRaider said: And yet we still lost by 20 points. Playing our young guys instead of them wouldn't have made a difference so why roll with old guys that won't be here next year? Play the young guys, see what you got, and try to build on that going forward. I still have no idea why we cut Calhoun and kept Rucker on the roster, it makes no sense. Pretty simple. Rucker is a better, more well rounded player. Let's not fool ourselves in thinking because of preseason Calhoun suddenly is a stud, he's not. Just flashed against some weaker competition finally. Most likely he ends up on the PS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 It's not a rebuild. It's not a retooling. Complete system change and roster overhaul is what I would call it. Taking what you like from what we had and adding pieces to it that fit. Notice I said fit. Now that you have the system in place, all we can really do is see what cream rises to the top from what we have. Next year and every year after that, you begin replacing your weakest and most important positions by what is available through FA and the draft. While continuing to operate under the cap and with what's best for your future cap. The short term goal(this season): hope that the mix of vets and youth can put together enough wins to be a playoff contender Realistic goal(this season): play competitive football while getting everyone valuable reps in the new schemes The best news we have out of all of this. Gruden with his long deal, has time to at least implement and execute a 5 year plan. Most coaches have 3 years at best and most of our coaches haven't even had that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 14 hours ago, NYRaider said: And yet we still lost by 20 points. Playing our young guys instead of them wouldn't have made a difference so why roll with old guys that won't be here next year? Play the young guys, see what you got, and try to build on that going forward. I still have no idea why we cut Calhoun and kept Rucker on the roster, it makes no sense. Because we are trying to win while we are improving our roster. Rucker, hall, etc are apparantly better then the young guys, thats why they play. And with Carr not having his worst game of his career we actually would have had a good shot at winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 8 hours ago, big_palooka said: Pretty simple. Rucker is a better, more well rounded player. Let's not fool ourselves in thinking because of preseason Calhoun suddenly is a stud, he's not. Just flashed against some weaker competition finally. Most likely he ends up on the PS. Rucker is also 35 years old and won't be here longer than this year. Again if we're looking to rebuild shouldn't we put some faith into our younger players? If we're going to get blown out regardless you'd think it makes more sense to let the young guys go through their growing pains, build on them, and then be solid players for us going forward. Instead, the Gruden model is to play guys at the end of their careers, keep the training wheels on the younger guys, and still get whooped on. Had he played Calhoun, Joseph, Nick Nelson, etc, we probably still would've lost by 20 points just like we did with the old veterans with nothing left in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Roninho said: Because we are trying to win while we are improving our roster. Rucker, hall, etc are apparantly better then the young guys, thats why they play. And with Carr not having his worst game of his career we actually would have had a good shot at winning Gruden's model of relying on veterans past their prime and keeping the training wheels on young players doesn't work though. He won a Super Bowl with Tony Dungey's roster and then was meh the rest of his time in Tampa Bay. In the six years following his Super Bowl victory where he brought in a ton of vets and built the team in his image he averaged 7.5 wins per year and won zero playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Rucker is also 35 years old and won't be here longer than this year. Again if we're looking to rebuild shouldn't we put some faith into our younger players? If we're going to get blown out regardless you'd think it makes more sense to let the young guys go through their growing pains, build on them, and then be solid players for us going forward. Instead, the Gruden model is to play guys at the end of their careers, keep the training wheels on the younger guys, and still get whooped on. Had he played Calhoun, Joseph, Nick Nelson, etc, we probably still would've lost by 20 points just like we did with the old veterans with nothing left in the tank. Well Calhoun is back on the PS, so it's moot at this point. I'm sure they want to field the most competitive team. The Rams are a sound offense, he wanted experience. That defense played well. Stop making it sound like they lost by 20 as if it was all on the defense. That unit played well considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Gruden's model of relying on veterans past their prime and keeping the training wheels on young players doesn't work though. He won a Super Bowl with Tony Dungey's roster and then was meh the rest of his time in Tampa Bay. In the six years following his Super Bowl victory where he brought in a ton of vets and built the team in his image he averaged 7.5 wins per year and won zero playoff games. Can you just give it 6-8 games and see how things come together. You're jumping to a bunch of conclusions over a week 1 game in an entirely new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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