Update: Urban Meyer suspended 3 games

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, Texasmade said:

You don't understand why Urban (or quite literally any one else who's apart of upper management in the corporate food chain) carries more culpability for the misdoings of his employees, and/or the action/inaction in response to those misdoings than others? 

Not when police reports were already filed years prior and the PD already were informed about the situation when it happened but didnt indite Zach Smith. The police knew. Why it comes out 3 years later as a thing and its all of a sudden Urbans fault when the PD already knew about what he 'should have reported' is what Im not getting.

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, mse326 said:

I disagree if they are investigating a whole course of conduct saying they violated this but nothing else isn't ridiculous. I think you are focusing too much on this one sentence as opposed to the whole thing. And it isn't even like they buried the violation it is right there just before.

The sentence is there to sandwich the word "misunderstanding" in, then leave the reader with "they didn't do anything else wrong" because the BS in the statement isn't that they failed to adhere, it's that the failure came from some naive misunderstanding.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, AkronsWitness said:

Not when police reports were already filed years prior and the PD already were informed about the situation when it happened but didnt indite Zach Smith. The police knew. Why it comes out 3 years later as a thing and its all of a sudden Urbans fault when the PD already knew about what he 'should have reported' is what Im not getting.

It already being reported doesn't absolve Urban Meyer of any responsibility to also report it. Mandatory reporter systems are set up to be intentionally redundant to make sure that every bit of evidence and paper trail of abuse is captured.

[JammerHammer21]

Zach Smith is unbelievably stupid

[mse326]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

The sentence is there to sandwich the word "misunderstanding" in, then leave the reader with "they didn't do anything else wrong" because the BS in the statement isn't that they failed to adhere, it's that the failure came from some naive misunderstanding.

That's a different complaint and one which I agree with you on. 

Complaining the sentence is ridiculous because you read it as except when they violated the rules they didn't violate any rules: I disagree with this complaint
Complaining that misunderstanding was put there to convince people they just made a mistake: I agree with this complain

Just want to make sure what we are arguing (or not) is clear.

[Raves]

 

8 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Yeah, but it’s a blatant attempt to minimize and handwave. “Other than failing to live up to the contract, they lived up to the contract.”

”Other than the traffic law I violated, you don’t have a reason to pull me over.”

”Other than texting her, my client didn’t violate the no contact provision.”

Technically not a contradiction, but...

"C.   A number of the other witnesses who were interviewed had the same understanding as that of Coach Meyer and Athletic Director Smith as to the events required to trigger University reporting obligations.  The University therefore will undertake steps to make its requirements clearer and implement additional training to reinforce them"

So apparently it wasn't just Meyer and Smith that didn't know the proper procedure but quite a few more as well.  So maybe it was a misunderstanding.  Though technically wouldn't the Colorado ruling justify the non-reporting since technically she's not covered by Title IX, though it gets really blurry is on of the other instances.

On 8/9/2018 at 12:00 PM, Raves said:

The suspension isn't about placing blame, it would be about trying to weather the the PR storm if/when Meyer is kept.  If you keep him and simply say, "We followed all the correct procedures currently in place, we realize now that these are not adequate enough now and will be looking at ways to improve them going forward," will get destroyed by the media.  That's why I think after that statement this will be following it,  "Although all the proper procedures were followed, we believe it is our obligations to treat these matters with much more care, respect, and poise than was displayed during the Big Ten Media day by Coach Urban Meyer.  For his conduct Coach Meyer will be suspended for the first 3 games of the season, his forfeited pay will be going to ~insert charity~ based on his recommendation.  We look forward to be moving forward with Coach Meyer after his suspension has been completed and are certain that a situation like this would be handled better going forward."

I posted that in the Ohio State thread almost 2 weeks ago now, looks pretty close to their statement of:

"Although neither Urban Meyer nor Gene Smith condoned or covered up the alleged domestic abuse by Zach Smith, they failed to take sufficient management action relating to Zach Smith's misconduct and retained as Assistant Coach who was not performing as an appropriate role model for OSU student-athletes.  Permitting such misconduct to continue is not consistent with the values of the University and reflects poorly on Coach Meyer, Athletic Director Smith, and the University.  Their handling of this matter did not exhibit the kind of leadership and high standards that we expect of our Athletic Director, Head Coach, Assistant Coaches, and all on the football staff.  Urban Meyer is suspended through September 2, 2018 and for the games on September 1, 8, and 15 without pay.  Gene Smith is suspended without pay from August 31-September 16."

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, mse326 said:

That's a different complaint and one which I agree with you on. 

Complaining the sentence is ridiculous because you read it as except when they violated the rules they didn't violate any rules: I disagree with this complaint
Complaining that misunderstanding was put there to convince people they just made a mistake: I agree with this complain

Just want to make sure what we are arguing (or not) is clear.

I would argue that taken out of the context of the paragraph, the sentence is ridiculous. Maybe as a lawyer writing "other than the one time, it happened zero times" is more common to try and minimize the blowback, but as a layperson, we'd say "it happened one time".

I would also argue, and you would agree, that in the context of the paragraph the sentence is meant to smuggle in the BS excuse that they didn't know.

[PAW]

7 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Bad analogy. A CEO isn’t hired specifically to be a role model to young men.

Neither are coaches. They’re hired to win games. You think Saban is some great role model to young men? You think Urban survives this if he was going 9-4 every year?  If that’s what they’re specifically hired for, the majority of them should be fired for having affairs.

It is ok to tolerate DV as long as you’re not overseeing young men?

[mse326]

6 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I would argue that taken out of the context of the paragraph, the sentence is ridiculous. Maybe as a lawyer writing "other than the one time, it happened zero times" is more common to try and minimize the blowback, but as a layperson, we'd say "it happened one time".

I would also argue, and you would agree, that in the context of the paragraph the sentence is meant to smuggle in the BS excuse that they didn't know.

Yeah like I said in a previous one it's because when looking at a whole course of conduct that is generally the way it is done. They violated it here. Other than that there were no other violations. I think if they actually used the word "other" in the sentence that would have been better and probably more understandable about what they are saying.

With that said I would say it's ridiculous to take a sentence out of context and then complain about. People don't write for each sentence on their own to be perfect. You write with the expectation that people have read up to that point and will therefore be able to read it in context.

[Raves]

1 minute ago, mse326 said:

Yeah like I said in a previous one it's because when looking at a whole course of conduct that is generally the way it is done. They violated it here. Other than that there were no other violations. I think if they actually used the word "other" in the sentence that would have been better and probably more understandable about what they are saying. With that said I would say it's ridiculous to take a sentence out of context and then complain about. People don't write for each sentence on their own to be perfect. You write with the expectation that people have read up to that point and will therefore be able to read it in context.

That's a pretty bold expectation for many.  They only look for the most buzzworthy and discard the rest, especially those that will choose to just highlight specific portions without revealing the rest to make it look even worse.

[ramssuperbowl99]

2 minutes ago, mse326 said:

Yeah like I said in a previous one it's because when looking at a whole course of conduct that is generally the way it is done. They violated it here. Other than that there were no other violations. I think if they actually used the word "other" in the sentence that would have been better and probably more understandable about what they are saying.

With that said I would say it's ridiculous to take a sentence out of context and then complain about. People don't write for each sentence on their own to be perfect. You write with the expectation that people have read up to that point and will therefore be able to read it in context.

Normally, but I think when you're writing press release type statements each sentence should be looked at more individually. People are going to grab relevant snippets, and that just looks bad.

Also, just because:

"Other than the one time against Clemson, the OSU offense has never been shut out in a College Football Playoff game."

[ramssuperbowl99]

 

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

It already being reported doesn't absolve Urban Meyer of any responsibility to also report it. Mandatory reporter systems are set up to be intentionally redundant to make sure that every bit of evidence and paper trail of abuse is captured.

The thing people are missing is that the reports were filed. Despite Urban not following suit. Courtney Smiths own mother came out and said her daughter is full of  **** and questioned the validity of her claims. The police didnt indite Zach when they knew about what was happening. The multiple occasions they were told.

 

[JammerHammer21]

Zach Smith linking up with Hugh Freeze when?

[WeaponX]

 

 

Quote

Key findings from the independent review:

 

Quote

 

A. On the University’s overriding concern of assuring that spousal abuse is neither ignored nor condoned, the findings are:  Coach Meyer has “a sincere commitment to the Respect for Women core values that he espouses and tries to instill in his players.”  The Independent Counsel also concluded that Coach Meyer would not hesitate to terminate any coach if spousal abuse was established: 

“We believe [Coach Meyer] as did Zach Smith, that if [Coach Meyer] ever came to learn or believe that Zach Smith had physically abused his wife, Coach Meyer would have fired Zach Smith or any other coach on the spot.”

 

 

I repeat:

"Ever came to learn or believe."

Ohio State expects you to believe that Urban Meyer would have fired him if he even had any belief that Zach Smith had physically abused his wife, he would have fired him on the spot. 

This is where I remind you that Ohio State established later in these findings that Urban knew in 2015. Evidence was presented to provide a reasonable belief that there was physical abuse. And he didn't "fire him on the spot."

 

Quote

B. Although Coach Meyer and Athletic Director Smith failed to adhere to the precise requirements of their contracts when they concluded that they needed to await a law enforcement determination to file charges before they reported the otherwise disputed claims of spousal abuse against Zach Smith, they did so based upon a good faith belief that they did not have sufficient information to trigger a reporting obligation or initiate a disciplinary action in the absence of law enforcement action.  Other than their misunderstanding of the requirements triggering reporting obligations, neither Coach Meyer nor Athletic Director Smith violated any policy, rules, law or contractual obligation in connection with the alleged domestic abuse claims against Zach Smith.

This has been addressed above. The statement, although not wrong and contradictory in a literal sense, is incredibly misleading. 

They failed to report this properly contrary to the talking point currently being parroted by Ohio State fans. The University even acknowledges as much.

Quote

C. A number of the other witnesses who were interviewed had the same understanding as that of Coach Meyer and Athletic Director Smith as to the events required to trigger University reporting obligations.  The University therefore will undertake steps to make its requirements clearer and implement additional training to reinforce them.

The defense Ohio State is going with is that Urban Meyer and Gene Smith didn't know the requirements of reporting. Again, reinforcing the point that Urban and Gene didn't report this as they should have.

Quote

D. Although Coach Meyer made significant misstatements about his knowledge of the 2015 events relating to Zach Smith and his former wife at the Big Ten Media Days, they were not part of a deliberate cover-up effort to keep Zach Smith on the coaching staff in the face of evidence of domestic violence by him that Athletic Director Smith and Coach Meyer credited.

"Made significant misstatements" vs. "not part of a deliberate cover-up effort".

An insulting way to keep from using the only word to describe this: lie.

They expect everyone to believe that Urban simply forgot. And that in his forgetfulness, he misspoke by questioning the reporting. 

 

Quote

E. The investigation identified multiple other examples of inappropriate conduct by Zach Smith while employed as an assistant football coach, some known by Coach Meyer and/or Gene Smith and others on the football staff.  Coach Meyer and Athletic Director Smith’s efforts to help Zach Smith overcome his personal issues went too far in allowing him to remain as an employee in the face of repeated misconduct. 

Again, the bolded contradicts Key Finding D.

"not part of a deliberate cover-up effort" vs. "went too far in allowing him to remain as an employee".

Quote

 

University actions based upon the independent review:

The President and the members of the Board of Trustees of the University have received the Report of the Independent Investigation and find it to be complete, professionally done and credible.  The President has consulted with the Board of Trustees and based upon these independent findings, the University accepts the findings of the report and, based on them, takes the following action:

Although neither Urban Meyer nor Gene Smith condoned or covered up the alleged domestic abuse by Zach Smith, they failed to take sufficient management action relating to Zach Smith’s misconduct and retained an Assistant Coach who was not performing as an appropriate role model for OSU student-athletes.  Permitting such misconduct to continue is not consistent with the values of the University and reflects poorly on Coach Meyer, Athletic Director Smith, and the University.  Their handling of this matter did not exhibit the kind of leadership and high standards that we expect of our Athletic Director, Head Coach, Assistant Coaches and all on the football staff.  Urban Meyer is suspended through September 2, 2018, and for the games on September 1, 8 and 15 without pay. Gene Smith is suspended without pay from August 31-September 16.