TL-TwoWinsAway Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, SimsZilla said: I 100% agree here. I’m a 0 Veto guy. Bad is a term that can be seen different ways. However in this case, the problem arises where again, there’s no reason for LionsPride to do this deal. He is gaining nothing. And giving away a top 5 qb to a relative. I don't necessarily agree that "nothing" was gained. (I'll say again: I think this is a bad trade. I hate having to defend it, but arguing that it's above "nothing" - even narrowly - is an easy argument.) I, personally, dislike Lamar Jackson. I dislike injury prone QBs. Yes, he had a God-tier 2023, but wasn't that same guy in 2021 or 2022. If I had Lamar, I would have been trying to trade Lamar after 2023, as I think he's a perfect sell-high candidate. (I would have gotten more for Lamar. This is, still, a bad trade.) In a 16 team dynasty league, QBs are plentiful, while RBs are not. Chandler is a 25 year old RB that appears to be 2nd on the depth chart behind an injury prone RB. Would he be a potential draft target in the, say, 2nd round of our upcoming fantasy draft? Probably. (He is still not a quality fantasy asset and this remains a bad trade.) This is still a bad trade, but it's not CMC for a dynasty 6th. It's not nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimsZilla Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) Yeah I guess where we have our difference of opinions. I don’t see any gain personally. I don’t see a legitimate rational for the trade, other than doing someone a solid and hoping it would slide through without a big fuss. It makes no sense to me, and apparently most of the league. But tbh I’m already over this whole drama. I just want to know the other side, and I want to know if the trade stands…and I’ll go from there. i just want to play fair fantasy with a bunch of good people. I didn’t know it was that hard of an ask. Edited April 30 by SimsZilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Im personally attached to my roster and prefer to move on. i will be doing zero trades with either owners until i have a legitimate response from both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Factor_40 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 We still need @LionsRock to confirm the trade on the forum, per league rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 35 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: I don't necessarily agree that "nothing" was gained. (I'll say again: I think this is a bad trade. I hate having to defend it, but arguing that it's above "nothing" - even narrowly - is an easy argument.) I, personally, dislike Lamar Jackson. I dislike injury prone QBs. Yes, he had a God-tier 2023, but wasn't that same guy in 2021 or 2022. If I had Lamar, I would have been trying to trade Lamar after 2023, as I think he's a perfect sell-high candidate. (I would have gotten more for Lamar. This is, still, a bad trade.) In a 16 team dynasty league, QBs are plentiful, while RBs are not. Chandler is a 25 year old RB that appears to be 2nd on the depth chart behind an injury prone RB. Would he be a potential draft target in the, say, 2nd round of our upcoming fantasy draft? Probably. (He is still not a quality fantasy asset and this remains a bad trade.) This is still a bad trade, but it's not CMC for a dynasty 6th. It's not nothing. It's pretty much nothing. You can jump through hoops and try to justify it but unless you have a very...unique way of valuing players that goes far against the consensus, it's a very very bad deal. QB's are plentiful in the sense that you can fill the roster spot, but elite QB's? Not easy to find. Not easy to replace. You can't possibly tell me that a Top 10 QB is in any way shape or form equivalent to a Top...50 RB and a Top 30 QB. I don't really see any value in trying to justify it for these two. It just doesn't make sense. Now, if it was like...Pick 1.10 and not 3.10? Maybe it gets interesting. Edited April 30 by Lions017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Lions017 said: It's pretty much nothing. You can jump through hoops and try to justify it but unless you have a very...unique way of valuing players that goes far against the consensus, it's a very very bad deal. QB's are plentiful in the sense that you can fill the roster spot, but elite QB's? Not easy to find. Not easy to replace. You can't possibly tell me that a Top 10 QB is in any way shape or form equivalent to a Top...50 RB and a Top 30 QB. You literally just made the argument that it's not nothing, which was the only point I was making. (While stressing - repeatedly - that it's a bad deal and "narrowly above nothing".) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 So three options. 1. We get response from both owners 2. we move on 3. some alternative to fix the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WE-R-Lions Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 While were burning the rubber here, I have a general question. Taking out names.....& looking at the numbers...... QB #1 328.5 pts the past 2 year average 291.25 pts the past 4 year average QB #2 320 pts the past 2 year average Only started the last two seasons Would you trade: Player #1, 6.11 for Player #2, a #2 RB on a team, 3.10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimsZilla Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) No because it’s not that simple. ^ I’ll be straight with you man, the trade looks sketchy as hell. You cannot use stats from 4 years ago to justify a trade. Even using stats from 2 years ago. This is a dynasty league, look to the future. Lamar is 27 and just came off an MVP season. Geno might not even start this year and he’s what, 32? Edited April 30 by SimsZilla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 minute ago, WE-R-Lions said: While were burning the rubber here, I have a general question. Taking out names.....& looking at the numbers...... QB #1 328.5 pts the past 2 year average 291.25 pts the past 4 year average QB #2 320 pts the past 2 year average Only started the last two seasons Would you trade: Player #1, 6.11 for Player #2, a #2 RB on a team, 3.10 Well, the issue is that, once you add names to the equation, Lamar Jackson is worth significantly more than Geno Smith. We don't need stats to know that Lamar's 2022 season was an injury-plagued letdown, and that he's more than capable of doing what he did in 2023. We also know that Ty Chandler is not a great fantasy asset, even if his situation might be beneficial at some point in the future. If you were moving a 1st round pick in the deal, it would still appear uneven yet would be significantly closer. The way it is now, it's a bad trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 I agree with @TL-TwoWinsAway that there was value in a trade whether we like it or not but I still feel like the trade feels worse than just a bad trade, meaning collusion of some sort. Maybe both parties have been super competitive and never traded before but that doesn't mean something has changed in Kings Pride's life to make him less interested in this free league on a site he never posts on and he decides to say eff it, take Lamar for whatever. I understand the reasoning that @WE-R-Lions for the Lamar owner to trade him, but the pieces don't line up with that. Chandler had 400 yards last year but only got 8 carries after week 9. So his lackluster play moved him down the depth chart. He was in a perfect situation to get touches last year and still couldn't so why is this year any different in a worse situation? I have a need for another keeper and I would not have traded any of my picks for Chandler and would rather keep a K. Using a trade calculator not in dynasty mode is not a valid response IMO. Using Draftshark's dynasty trade values it would net to Lamar at 34, the other side at 30 which is closer than any other site but still easily in favor of Lamar. Here are some examples I just googled and the results: https://calc.dynastyprocess.com/ - Lamar side wins 4,444 points to 327, a benefit of 1,219% to the Lamar side. https://www.rototrade.com/fantasy-football-trade-analyzer-results.php - They don't value picks beyond the 2nd round in dynasty since they net you guys like Ty Chandler and it 43.5 to Lamar, 33.5 to the other side which is generous. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/fantasy-football-trade-analyzer - Lamar 43.8, Geno, Ty, 3rd 11.5 https://www.fantasypros.com/2024/04/fantasy-football-rankings-dynasty-trade-value-chart-may-2024-update/ Lamar 33, the other side 26 (13 of that is on the 3rd round pick meaning they value the pick way more than Geno or Ty). So given the fact nobody in the league, outside the league, or any trade calculator I can find thinks its a good deal for both sides, the only explanations are collusion or one team giving up and throwing away his team. This does nothing to make his team better and actually makes it worse unless he gets a Puka type lucky pick in the 3rd. I doubt I will leave the league, but I guarantee I will not trade with either party in the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lions017 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WE-R-Lions said: While were burning the rubber here, I have a general question. Taking out names.....& looking at the numbers...... QB #1 328.5 pts the past 2 year average 291.25 pts the past 4 year average QB #2 320 pts the past 2 year average Only started the last two seasons Would you trade: Player #1, 6.11 for Player #2, a #2 RB on a team, 3.10 No, I wouldn't. Because the draft picks are of little value, being RB2 doesn't mean a ton if the player isn't exceptionally talented, and I am smart enough to do the two minutes of research it would take to look behind the points that you posted. Why are we suddenly averaging 2 and 4 year windows? That's a long time in the NFL. Smith has had one good year and it was two years ago. Last year he stunk. Lamar was phenomenal. Smith is old and about to be replaced. Jackson is young and on a long-term deal. You can fiddle with the numbers all you want - literally only two people (you and your brother) out of the 20-ish that have weighed in on it think that it's an acceptable deal. Calculators think it's trash. No one else is even saying "yeah, that's close." Everyone else thinks that it's a terrible trade and many suspect collusion as the only possible way to justify it. Edited April 30 by Lions017 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 @WE-R-Lions: I don't care to check the draft order, and, honestly, I don't think it's even relevant. If you want to smooth this over, I'd increase your 3rd to a 1st. I think it would make this move a non-issue, and would still be a good deal on your end. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 4 minutes ago, WE-R-Lions said: While were burning the rubber here, I have a general question. Taking out names.....& looking at the numbers...... QB #1 328.5 pts the past 2 year average 291.25 pts the past 4 year average QB #2 320 pts the past 2 year average Only started the last two seasons Would you trade: Player #1, 6.11 for Player #2, a #2 RB on a team, 3.10 You know in a dynasty league you can't take names and situations out of it. You could do the same with Austin Eckeler and Bijan Robinson and Eckler looks better but nobody is trading Bijan for Ekeler and a 3rd. Geno is in his last year or two and Seattle is actively looking for replacements Lamar just got a better RB and better WRs and his top TE is returning from injury while still averaging more per game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimsZilla Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) @WE-R-Lions can you just either say the trade stands or doesn’t so we can end this Edited April 30 by SimsZilla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.