Behold Da Bearz!

[swede700]

As I said with the Lions 2 years ago, I will believe the Bears will be a good team when I see it. 

[CWood21]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Jaylon Johnson long term is better than Jaire Alexander if he can stay healthy but that is a question for both of them.  Long term Gordon will be better than Nixon and Stevenson will be better than Valentine.  Sure maybe they were good at run D because teams passed on them but I do not believe that, they are good at run D because they have standout LBs and a solid front especially when Sweat was added.

Are they though?  Jaire Alexander is 2 years older than Jaylon Johnson, so it's not like we're talking about a 25 year old compared to a 32 year old.  Injures are obviously a concern with Jaire, so that's a legitimate knock.  Jaylon is a stud no doubt, but I'd be interested to see how he would hold up if the other corners on the roster weren't getting abused.  And it's funny you say that Stevenson is better than Valentine despite Valentine's numbers being overwhelmingly better.

Carrington Valentine: 17 GP (12 GS), 59 targets, 34 receptions allowed, 57.6% CMP%, 7.0 YPT, 1 passing TD allowed, 0 INT
Tyrique Stevenson: 16 GP (16 GS), 116 targets, 70 receptions allowed, 60.3% CMP%, 7.2 YPT, 9 passing TD allowed, 4 INT

Yikes.  But ball skills, amirite?  Seriously, if you can point to something aside from draft status that can prove that Stevenson is better than Valentine, I'd love to hear it.  And my issue with the Bears' front 7 is less about run defense and more about their pass rush.  Or lack thereof.  The Bears were 31st in sacks and 27th in pressure% last year.  That's abysmal.  Montez Sweat should help, but they need a 2nd pass rusher to develop quickly.

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Kool Aid?  It is called following talent and recognizing it.  Green Bay has a ton of young talent and are probably considered the youngest team in the NFL again this year, they have more young starters than the Bears and more under 25 talent in terms of numbers do but not by much, but look at the top of these lists.  I would take the Bears top 10 guys over the Packers top 10 all day long. They have a higher ceiling and to me have more top end elite level talent.  Sure some guys on the Packers could develop far more and improve their overall future projection as a player, but the Bears are right there if not potentially ahead in terms of elite guys 25 and under on the active roster.

Ah yes, the vaunted eye ball test.  Again, when have I said the Bears will be a pushover?  They'll be competitive.  They've got some good young studs, but their roster isn't nearly as good as you're claiming it to be.  You're over here pimping out guys who are fringe roster guys.

 

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

It will depend on who develops and who improves, and granted for either roster just because a young guy starts in the NFL early in their career does not mean they will have a great career.  But with that easier start to the season the Bears will gain confidence for a young football team.  And my guess is they beat Green Bay once for the first time since 2018 as well.  You can throw up all these stats about this and that, the team is crazy talented in terms of young players are just as talented as Green Bay is with arguably a better more promising QB.

Why is everything tied to draft status for you?  Unless you're convince that Jordan Love down the stretch was the anomaly and not the 4.5 game stretch where he couldn't do anything right, Jordan Love is a PROVEN NFL starting caliber.  And a high caliber one.  We think (and hope) that Caleb Williams is, but until he proves that he's still a giant unknown.  And I'm not sure how confidence is going to translate to wins.  By that logic, the Eagles should have never fallen apart last year.  After starting the season 10-1, they proceeded to go 1-5 to collapse.  And I'd hope that Chicago wins at least one game against Green Bay.  Because I don't think they're going to the playoffs if they lose 3+ divisional games.  I think you have to go back to 2019 the last time a team from the NFC North made the playoffs with a losing record inside the division and that was a byproduct of a mediocre schedule.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Are they though?  Jaire Alexander is 2 years older than Jaylon Johnson, so it's not like we're talking about a 25 year old compared to a 32 year old.  Injures are obviously a concern with Jaire, so that's a legitimate knock.  Jaylon is a stud no doubt, but I'd be interested to see how he would hold up if the other corners on the roster weren't getting abused.  And it's funny you say that Stevenson is better than Valentine despite Valentine's numbers being overwhelmingly better.

Carrington Valentine: 17 GP (12 GS), 59 targets, 34 receptions allowed, 57.6% CMP%, 7.0 YPT, 1 passing TD allowed, 0 INT
Tyrique Stevenson: 16 GP (16 GS), 116 targets, 70 receptions allowed, 60.3% CMP%, 7.2 YPT, 9 passing TD allowed, 4 INT

Yikes.  But ball skills, amirite?  Seriously, if you can point to something aside from draft status that can prove that Stevenson is better than Valentine, I'd love to hear it.  And my issue with the Bears' front 7 is less about run defense and more about their pass rush.  Or lack thereof.  The Bears were 31st in sacks and 27th in pressure% last year.  That's abysmal.  Montez Sweat should help, but they need a 2nd pass rusher to develop quickly.

Ah yes, the vaunted eye ball test.  Again, when have I said the Bears will be a pushover?  They'll be competitive.  They've got some good young studs, but their roster isn't nearly as good as you're claiming it to be.  You're over here pimping out guys who are fringe roster guys.

 

Why is everything tied to draft status for you?  Unless you're convince that Jordan Love down the stretch was the anomaly and not the 4.5 game stretch where he couldn't do anything right, Jordan Love is a PROVEN NFL starting caliber.  And a high caliber one.  We think (and hope) that Caleb Williams is, but until he proves that he's still a giant unknown.  And I'm not sure how confidence is going to translate to wins.  By that logic, the Eagles should have never fallen apart last year.  After starting the season 10-1, they proceeded to go 1-5 to collapse.  And I'd hope that Chicago wins at least one game against Green Bay.  Because I don't think they're going to the playoffs if they lose 3+ divisional games.  I think you have to go back to 2019 the last time a team from the NFC North made the playoffs with a losing record inside the division and that was a byproduct of a mediocre schedule.

Draft Status?  No it is called projection and thinking what a player can become not always what they are at this very moment.

As a defensive coordinator the Bears are far harder to handle offensively than the Packers.  Their #1 weapon as a pass catcher is better than anyone on Green Bay, same with their #2 and #3 weapons.  #4 I guess there is some debate but unless those TEs can stay healthy maybe not so much.  Sure maybe Moore, Allen or Odunze or all of them will get hurt, but if they can stay healthy it is far harder to go up against that than to face Green Bay and their collection of WRs.  I like the Packers WR core and spreading it around but there is no way anyone of them will be anything close to what Allen has been over his career or Moore for that matter and my guess is Odunze is a better WR long term than any WR on Green Bay as well.  That is not even considering Swift out of the backfield catching passes or they going power run game with Johnson or Herbert.  

 

We will see what happens but that offense, yeah it is going to be a massive problem!  As for the defense, they will be better than last year, the young secondary will be improved and more experienced and in a league that struggles to get quality LB play, Edmunds is a freak show at 6-5 250 to be able to run and cover like he does and Edwards is a tackling machine.  Oh they are not that good?  They are so far and above any Packer LB it is not even close, now maybe Cooper will be out of this world good but not so sure about that one.   Yes Edmunds is not Roquan Smith but Roquan Smith is pretty much the best ILB in the NFL especially if one just looks at run stopping and coming down hill and attacking the line of scrimmage, but Edmunds is a nice replacement to replace someone basically unreplaceable.  

 

You take Valentine, great Stevenson started more and was targeted more because he was opposite Jaylon Johnson.  So yeah he got picked on but he was not that bad and I would take his tackling skill over Valentine all day.  Last time I checked Valentine is not even going to be a starter on Green Bay so why even discuss a guy who will not see the field a ton unless an injury happens to Alexander or Stokes?

 

We will see what happens but that Bears offense, unless someone big gets hurt, they are going to be absolute hell to go up against.  Justin Fields has a good arm and is talented but he is so limited in terms of his ability to create outside the pocket making big throws down field.  His vision is not nearly as good as Caleb Williams and his creativity as a passer is not even close either.  Caleb Williams is going to do very well and might be close to what CJ Stroud did last year because honestly he has better weapons than Stroud had last year and a better OL if they can stay healthy.  Lucky for Stroud though that division was pretty crap so that made things easier, Bears will not have that but again that start of the schedule is not as hard as many other teams so that could help.  

 

 

[CWood21]

Again, you're tying that to draft status.  You're choosing to ignore the actual production in favor of your pre-draft opinion.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

As a defensive coordinator the Bears are far harder to handle offensively than the Packers.  Their #1 weapon as a pass catcher is better than anyone on Green Bay, same with their #2 and #3 weapons.  #4 I guess there is some debate but unless those TEs can stay healthy maybe not so much.  Sure maybe Moore, Allen or Odunze or all of them will get hurt, but if they can stay healthy it is far harder to go up against that than to face Green Bay and their collection of WRs.  I like the Packers WR core and spreading it around but there is no way anyone of them will be anything close to what Allen has been over his career or Moore for that matter and my guess is Odunze is a better WR long term than any WR on Green Bay as well.  That is not even considering Swift out of the backfield catching passes or they going power run game with Johnson or Herbert.  

The Packers don't have the "star power" the Bears do, but they certainly make it up for depth.  Right now, the Bears are rostering the 10th and 16th most targeted players in the NFL last year.  The Packers' leading WR (Romeo Doubs) came in at 45th with 96 targets.  Keenan Allen who was 10th in targets last year was joined by the 2nd leading receiver for the Chargers, Austin Ekeler, at less the half the number of targets that Allen received.  The Chargers force fed Keenan Allen the ball.  On a per-target basis, Jayden Reed was as productive (if not more) as Keenan Allen.  But because he wasn't force fed the ball like Allen was, he must not be good.  Can Reed do that on a bigger sample size?  That remains to be seen.  You're assuming that because Moore and Allen were super-productive despite being force fed the ball, they're going to be that kind of productive when they're spreading the ball around.  LIS, there's only so many balls to around.  I'd argue WR1-WR7 is the best in the NFL.  May not have the star power that other teams have, but they've got a TON of depth.  Despite having no receiver eclipse the 100 yard mark until the 2nd to last game of the regular season, the Packers finished 12th in PPG.  You don't do that by accident.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

We will see what happens but that offense, yeah it is going to be a massive problem!  As for the defense, they will be better than last year, the young secondary will be improved and more experienced and in a league that struggles to get quality LB play, Edmunds is a freak show at 6-5 250 to be able to run and cover like he does and Edwards is a tackling machine.  Oh they are not that good?  They are so far and above any Packer LB it is not even close, now maybe Cooper will be out of this world good but not so sure about that one.   Yes Edmunds is not Roquan Smith but Roquan Smith is pretty much the best ILB in the NFL especially if one just looks at run stopping and coming down hill and attacking the line of scrimmage, but Edmunds is a nice replacement to replace someone basically unreplaceable.  

I didn't say they were not good, so continue to try and paint an argument I'm not trying to make.  I said they were solid.  I don't think there's anything wrong with the group, and if you think the LBs in the NFC North aren't very good than I wouldn't fight you too hard.  But that's speaks more about the non-Bears' LBs than it does the Bears' LBs.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

You take Valentine, great Stevenson started more and was targeted more because he was opposite Jaylon Johnson.  So yeah he got picked on but he was not that bad and I would take his tackling skill over Valentine all day.  Last time I checked Valentine is not even going to be a starter on Green Bay so why even discuss a guy who will not see the field a ton unless an injury happens to Alexander or Stokes?

I want to put something into perspective, the Packers' corners allowed 15 passing TDs over the course of the entire year last year.  Stevenson gave up 9 by himself.  But yeah, the Stevenson is amazing.  Valentine isn't a starter for 2 reasons.  Firstly, he's been dealing with an injury in preseason and secondly, Eric Stokes has actually played well.  Stokes' talent was obvious but his injury concerns have made him unreliable at best.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

We will see what happens but that Bears offense, unless someone big gets hurt, they are going to be absolute hell to go up against.  Justin Fields has a good arm and is talented but he is so limited in terms of his ability to create outside the pocket making big throws down field.  His vision is not nearly as good as Caleb Williams and his creativity as a passer is not even close either.  Caleb Williams is going to do very well and might be close to what CJ Stroud did last year because honestly he has better weapons than Stroud had last year and a better OL if they can stay healthy.  Lucky for Stroud though that division was pretty crap so that made things easier, Bears will not have that but again that start of the schedule is not as hard as many other teams so that could help.  

I'm honestly not sure if you're overselling Caleb Williams or underselling what CJ Stroud did last year.  A sub-1% INT ratio has only happened with rookie QBs twice: CJ Stroud (2023) and Dak Prescott (2016).  IF Caleb Williams manages to do that, the Bears are likely a playoff team.   Personally, I think that's highly unlikely.

[Ozzy]

12 hours ago, CWood21 said:

 

I'm honestly not sure if you're overselling Caleb Williams or underselling what CJ Stroud did last year.  A sub-1% INT ratio has only happened with rookie QBs twice: CJ Stroud (2023) and Dak Prescott (2016).  IF Caleb Williams manages to do that, the Bears are likely a playoff team.   Personally, I think that's highly unlikely.

Maybe but coming into the NFL Caleb Williams is a more high level prospect and is by far better creatively off platform.  People can have issue with he did not workout at the combine, he did not do the medical tests at the combine, he cried after losses in college....whatever    The kid can play and should adjust to the NFL extremely well, especially with the supporting cast around him which in terms of weapons is better than what CJ Stroud had last year. 

Preforming well as a rookie in the NFL at QB is not that rare.  These guys all did quite well over the last 20 years, sure for some it did not last like Wentz, Griffin and Winston but some had arguably just as good of seasons at Stroud did last year.  So it is not like it can never happen ever again.  Big thing with Stroud yes is the lacking of throwing INTs as a rookie which is rare but others have took care of the ball and of course a lot depends on the weapons you are throwing to, the coaching staff you have and the offensive line play of course.

 

Andrew Luck (2012) 16 starts, 11-5, 4374 yards, 23 TDs, 18 INTs, 76.5 QB rating, 5 rushing TDs

Justin Herbert (2020) 15 starts, 6-9, 4336 yards, 31 TDs, 10 INTs, 98.3 QB rating, 5 rushing TDs

CJ Stroud (2023) 15 starts, 9-6, 4108 yards, 23 TDs, 9 INTs, 100.8 QB rating, 3 rushing TDs

Cam Newton (2011) 16 starts, 6-10, 4051 yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs, 84.5 QB rating, 14 rushing TDs, 706 rushing yards

Dak Prescott (2016) 16 starts, 13-3, 3667 yards. 23 TDs, 4 INTs, 104.9 QB rating, 6 rushing TDs

Baker Mayfield (2018) 13 starts, 6-7, 3725 yards, 27 TDs, 14 INTs, 93.7 QB rating

Matt Ryan (2008) 16 starts,11-5, 3440 yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 87.7 QB rating

Robert Griffin III (2012) 15 starts, 9-6, 3200 yards, 20 TDs, 5 INTs, 102.4 QB rating, 7 TDs, 815 rushing yards

Russell Wilson (2012) 16 starts, 11-5, 3118 yards, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, 100.0 QB rating, 4 rushing TDs

Ben Roethlisberger (2004) 13 starts, 13-0, 2621 yards, 17 TDs, 11 INTs, 98.1 QB rating, 1 rushing TD

Carson Wentz (2016) 16 starts, 7-9, 3782 yards, 16 TDs, 14 INTs, 79.3 QB rating, 2 rushing TDs

Jameis Winston (2015) 16 starts, 6-10, 4042 yards, 22 TDs, 15 INTs, 84.2 QB rating

 

 

The huge thing with Stroud is that they won in the playoffs after a surprisingly good season.  But like I said that division was down in general and they did beat the Cleveland Browns who had a backup QB starter in Joe Flacco and did not have their bell cow RB Nick Chubb.  So not sure how much chance they really had in that game anyway with those major injuries.  Grant Delpit was also out in that game which is huge because he is one of the best up and coming safeties in the NFL.  
 

Caleb Williams no question could have an elite rookie year and outside of some major injury by him or a key teammate, I see no reason why he will not have a great rookie year.  One of the few ways he could fail is if he tries to do too much and if they are not a physical offense that relies on the run game, and with that defense I doubt that happens and Caleb Williams could do quite well off play action passes and lowering his attempts.  So again only real issue is that IOL, if that is sound they will do very well.  Ryan Bates could be it but if not Coleman Shelton did start 17 games for a playoff team in the Rams last year so he could be the answer and Doug Kramer Jr is a nice developmental center as well so I think they will figure it out and Bates or Shelton should do just fine.  

[vike daddy]

Rookie Caleb Williams could possibly set one or more Bears single-season records as a rookie. The Bears’ single-season passing yardage record was set in 1995. By Erik Kramer, with 3,838 yards. That same year, he set the record for touchdowns with 29.

Many would say Jay Cutler had more. He didn’t. His best year with the Bears — 2014 — resulted in 3,812 yards. Cutler ultimately had five 3,000-yard seasons in Chicago, and he’s the all-time franchise leader with 23,443 passing yards.

While it will take a few years for Williams to get to 23,444 or more career yards, he could get to 3,839 as soon as this year. And if/when he ever gets to 4,000 passing yards in the single season, he’ll be the first Bears quarterback to do it.

And, yes, the Bears are the only team that hasn’t had a quarterback with a 4,000-yard passing season.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/it-wont-take-much-for-caleb-williams-to-set-bears-single-season-passing-records

[VikeManDan]

235 YPG to get to 4,000 yards.

I'm thinking Williams will get that this year.

[swede700]

24 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

235 YPG to get to 4,000 yards.

I'm thinking Williams will get that this year.

Unless he turns into Justin Fields running a lot and only looking at one side of the field, he should...but you never know.  I still don't like the Bears' offensive line.   

[vike daddy]

Adam Schefter AdamSchefter

Bears HC Matt Eberflus said WR Rome Odunze will undergo an MRI today on his knee.

[vike daddy]

Rome Odunze has a sprained MCL according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.

Bears coach Matt Eberflus said Monday he would update the media on the injury’s severity Wednesday after an MRI but that usually means an agent will do it first earlier.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/rome-odunze-s-reported-mcl-sprain-could-challenge-bears-offense

[vike daddy]

The Bears will be taking as much time as they can before making final decisions about whether wide receivers Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze will play against the Texans on Sunday.

Head coach Matt Eberflus said at his Friday that both players will be listed as questionable this weekend. Allen missed practice all week with a heel injury while Odunze was able to practice in a limited fashion Friday. Odunze is dealing with a knee injury.

DJ Moore, Tyler Scott, and DeAndre Carter are the other receivers on the 53-man roster, so the Bears will likely be calling up Samori Toure and/or Collin Johnson from the practice squad to fill out the group.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bears-list-keenan-allen-rome-odunze-as-questionable

Edited September 13 by vike daddy

[CWood21]

@Ozzy still feeling optimistic about the Bears?

[vike daddy]

Caleb Williams continues to struggle, although he finally got his first two touchdown passes Sunday. But the play-calling was head-scratching. The Colts had given up almost 500 yards on the ground to their first two opponents, but the Bears attempted 52 passes, including 27 in the first half, when the Bears defense held the Colts to just one touchdown. That's not Williams' fault.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-week-3-s-winners-and-losers-six-teams-earn-first-wins-sunday-what-s-wrong-with-cowboys

[Ozzy]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

@Ozzy still feeling optimistic about the Bears?

Yes, but that run game is not as good as I thought it would be, Swift has not been good and thus the OL especially interior three are not great, Caleb Williams first three games sacked 13 times and hit 21 times.  So not good at all, Keenan Allen has played one game and clearly has not been a real force after having 150 catches for 1200+ yards last year.  I thought he would be more of a force but maybe he is hurt.

They need to find out who they are and Caleb needs to play a more controlled game, but the run game is key. I see Johnson is back at RB and maybe he will provide some punch because honestly for them to be good they have to play complementary football and run the ball to help protect the D like any good defensive team does.

 

Still a very talented team and they can turn it around, play calling is so important and scheming to protect a QB, obviously they do not have amazing talent in that regard but everyone has to play well around him and not sure they have done that.  Even the Lions could easily be 1-2 at this point, that mean they are awful?  Snuck out a win again the Cardinals though to be 2-1.

[SteelKing728]

I'm pretty sure most of us are better offensive lineman than what the Bears are trotting out there every drive.